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Basso`s time on Lo Zoncolan

May 23, 2010
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For those who believe that Basso must be doped...

2007

Gilberto Simoni 39.05

2010

Ivan Basso 40.45

...and have in mind that Basso was superior to Simoni in 2006
 

ttrider

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Apr 23, 2010
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yeah im convinced hes clean big gap, his style is incredibly economic with energy absolutely no waste whatsoever and a really strong team so thats why he beat evans by so much given they have the same talent level

what do people make ok cunego getting worse by 3 minutes -strange
 
May 26, 2009
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Absolutely iron clad! The thing that Basso had to be on his bike three hours longer scaling more passes is absolutely irrelevant!

*shakes head*
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Franklin said:
Absolutely iron clad! The thing that Basso had to be on his bike three hours longer scaling more passes is absolutely irrelevant!

*shakes head*

actually it seems to be almost irrelevant, check the times of the mountain time trial at alpe d'huez against some of the other performance those riders have put in.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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karlboss said:
actually it seems to be almost irrelevant, check the times of the mountain time trial at alpe d'huez against some of the other performance those riders have put in.

This.

We're having a similar discussion on another forum.
Going "back in time" to check the biggest differences in VAM between consecutive years on the same final climb, we only see at the very most (and these are the extreme cases) a difference of 40-50 m/h.

Even accounting for that difference, Basso's performance is quite inferior.
 
Jun 27, 2009
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The Devil is in the Details

For anyone that is curious about these issues in good faith, it's instructive to compare the difficulty of the stages...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/93rd-giro-ditalia-gt/stage-15

222 km stage, Zonoclan preceded by 3 sharp climbs.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/giro07/?id=stages/giro0717

142 km stage, no significant difficulties before the Zonoclan.

Conclusion: the comparison of Zonoclan times doesn't mean anything, as the difficulty and length of the stages being compared are radically different.
 
Its been fairly tough too. The 2007 ascent occurred after a rest day followed by a transition sort of day, not as difficult as yesterday's stage, so you would expect the legs to be fresher in 2007. Then again the fact there is the rest day tomorrow might mean people would have given it everything today and not been tempted to hold back at all. I think the time gaps were much bigger today as well. What does it all mean? Dont know, difficult to tell from one climb. If Basso had been going loads faster or struggled up in 45 minutes then that may tell us something. Otherwise, its difficult to tell from one climb. What would a 'clean' time be anyway?:)
 
Mar 13, 2009
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issoisso said:
This.

We're having a similar discussion on another forum.
Going "back in time" to check the biggest differences in VAM between consecutive years on the same final climb, we only see at the very most (and these are the extreme cases) a difference of 40-50 m/h.

Even accounting for that difference, Basso's performance is quite inferior.

VAM isn't perfect, but a reasonable indicator, for the winner it is a better indicator.

However Basso's performance using Ferrari's calculator...5.5W/kg hardly extra terrestial.

Using 40:45 as the time and Zoncolon as 1200m gain over 10.1 km
 
Jul 22, 2009
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ludwig said:
For anyone that is curious about these issues in good faith, it's instructive to compare the difficulty of the stages...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/93rd-giro-ditalia-gt/stage-15

222 km stage, Zonoclan preceded by 3 sharp climbs.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/giro07/?id=stages/giro0717

142 km stage, no significant difficulties before the Zonoclan.

Conclusion: the comparison of Zonoclan times doesn't mean anything, as the difficulty and length of the stages being compared are radically different.
don't confuse this discussion with facts!
 
I don't remember the 07 Giro (it one of the ones i don't have in my collection yet) but someone in another thread said they climbed i from the other side in 07. I don't know how true this is but if it is it is a major flaw in this comparison.
 

SpartacusRox

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May 6, 2010
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karlboss said:
actually it seems to be almost irrelevant, check the times of the mountain time trial at alpe d'huez against some of the other performance those riders have put in.

Can't be bothered with all this doping innuendo crap that goes on everytime a guy busts his *** up a big climb.

Basso was awesome today and it was great to watch, I've always liked the guy as a rider and it was good to see him in top form. All power to him. Between the Giro and the ToC, LG are having a great time at the moment.

Cadel rode really well too and it was good to see him gutsing it out right to the end. Wiggins...hmm not looking good for the tour given the stages we have this year.
 
El Imbatido said:
I don't remember the 07 Giro (it one of the ones i don't have in my collection yet) but someone in another thread said they climbed i from the other side in 07. I don't know how true this is but if it is it is a major flaw in this comparison.

They climbed it from the East in 2003, but 2007 and 2010 were the (harder) west side.
 
SpartacusRox said:
Can't be bothered with all this doping innuendo crap that goes on everytime a guy busts his *** up a big climb.

Basso was awesome today and it was great to watch, I've always liked the guy as a rider and it was good to see him in top form. All power to him. Between the Giro and the ToC, LG are having a great time at the moment.

Cadel rode really well too and it was good to see him gutsing it out right to the end. Wiggins...hmm not looking good for the tour given the stages we have this year.

It's funny but I like basso, I always have, and yes he was awesome today, do I think he's doping, I don't know, but I tend to be more lenient towards the likes Ivan and Marco (Pantani that is) even though there is that iron clad proof of their doping, I just goes to see how hyprocite sometimes fans are, (including me off course)
 
gatete said:
It's funny but I like basso, I always have, and yes he was awesome today, do I think he's doping, I don't know, but I tend to be more lenient towards the likes Ivan and Marco (Pantani that is) even though there is that iron clad proof of their doping, I just goes to see how hyprocite sometimes fans are, (including me off course)

well said,there is more hatred among fans towards not-yet-caught riders than those who were actually caught in the past (well basso was never tested,he just thought about doping)...i think ppl believe that once caught rider will not dope anymore, i have the same feeling about vino
 
wattage said:
Well if Basso indeed was at 5,5w/kg the I think cycling might have some hope. But Id still love to see what Bassos SRM says.

+1

I liked his ride today, and we also need to give a bit of credit in that he did very little work yesterday and almost got a free ride, so may have been more rested.

I do also want to give this year's Giro the benefit of the doubt considering some of these wonky stages and splits, but right now I'm going to have to stick to my oft-repeated thoughts on racing being cleaner overall.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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is basso clean ? I have no the faintest idea. never was a fan of his and thought of him even less after the last year’s giro.

but using vam to glean an answer is poor standard compared to what he himself offered.

to my knowledge basso is the only rider who publicized not only his blood tests, physiological parameters and performance watts but most importantly his total body haemoglobin (co2 test).

that’s almost as much as one can ask for and miles better than almost any other rider.

funny how some fans want to see blood and when they get it they turn to obscure instruments.

given cycling’s history it’s understandable.