Ben Swift Discussion Thread

Aug 16, 2013
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I really hope Ben can put similar results like 2011. I still think he's one of the best sprinters, but he's totally at the wrong place.
 
Arredondo said:
I really hope Ben can put similar results like 2011. I still think he's one of the best sprinters, but he's totally at the wrong place.
I doubt he can win against Kittel/Cav/Greipel on a simple flat stage. Maybe on tougher parcours or against the other 2nd tier sprinters. Hence I see no reason why he can't get help from Sky in some races.
 
Aug 16, 2013
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Dazed and Confused said:
I doubt he can win against Kittel/Cav/Greipel on a simple flat stage. Maybe on tougher parcours or against the other 2nd tier sprinters. Hence I see no reason why he can't get help from Sky in some races.
No, he can't beat guys like Kittel and Greipel, but he's one of the best at difficult finishes. But still i think he can sprint in the top 5 at flat stages. It would be a really good rider fighting for green.

Sky isn't that interested in sprinting, so it will be more difficult for Swift to get serious help in the sprints. Of course, due to the bad luck he hasn't fulfilled his true potential, but i think changing from team and environment would be good for him.
 
Arredondo said:
No, he can't beat guys like Kittel and Greipel, but he's one of the best at difficult finishes. But still i think he can sprint in the top 5 at flat stages. It would be a really good rider fighting for green.

Sky isn't that interested in sprinting, so it will be more difficult for Swift to get serious help in the sprints. Of course, due to the bad luck he hasn't fulfilled his true potential, but i think changing from team and environment would be good for him.
Point is that Swift is not really bankable as a sprinter and therefore he will find it difficult to get a lot of resources allocated to him in big races regardless of team. FDJ doesn't give Bouhanni more than a couple of guys for example. Same with Bos on Belkin. In smaller races, these type of guys gets more help from the team, but thats no different that what Swift would get in similar races on Sky imo. Cav on Sky was a very different situation. He can rightfully demand almost all resources in big suitable races. He would never get that on Sky.

Anyway lets see how Swift does when he returns fully fit.
 
Aug 16, 2013
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Dazed and Confused said:
Point is that Swift is not really bankable as a sprinter and therefore he will find it difficult to get a lot of resources allocated to him in big races regardless of team. FDJ doesn't give Bouhanni more than a couple of guys for example. Same with Bos on Belkin. In smaller races, these type of guys gets more help from the team, but thats no different that what Swift would get in similar races on Sky imo. Cav on Sky was a very different situation. He can rightfully demand almost all resources in big suitable races. He would never get that on Sky.

Anyway lets see how Swift does when he returns fully fit.
That's the difficulty of being a second-tier sprinter, or someone who doesn't have the results and position of a Cav. Greipel or Kittel. Look at Ferrari, who can do a lot better, but doesn't get more then two riders in service, if he's lucky.

You're right about Bouhanni and Bos. The big difference for Bouhanni is, is that he is capable to become (or already is) a topsprinter. Then he will get more help from the team.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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Arredondo said:
That's the difficulty of being a second-tier sprinter, or someone who doesn't have the results and position of a Cav. Greipel or Kittel. Look at Ferrari, who can do a lot better, but doesn't get more then two riders in service, if he's lucky.

You're right about Bouhanni and Bos. The big difference for Bouhanni is, is that he is capable to become (or already is) a topsprinter. Then he will get more help from the team.
What exactly makes Bouhanni a top tier sprinter? The only time he went head to head with Bos last year, Bos won ;)

I was surprised by his climbing in Beijing though. But then again, it's Beijing.
 
Apr 15, 2013
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Dazed and Confused said:
Point is that Swift is not really bankable as a sprinter and therefore he will find it difficult to get a lot of resources allocated to him in big races regardless of team. FDJ doesn't give Bouhanni more than a couple of guys for example. Same with Bos on Belkin. In smaller races, these type of guys gets more help from the team, but thats no different that what Swift would get in similar races on Sky imo. Cav on Sky was a very different situation. He can rightfully demand almost all resources in big suitable races. He would never get that on Sky.

Anyway lets see how Swift does when he returns fully fit.
This sums it up.
 
theyoungest said:
What exactly makes Bouhanni a top tier sprinter? The only time he went head to head with Bos last year, Bos won ;)

I was surprised by his climbing in Beijing though. But then again, it's Beijing.
Maybe because he has a better palmares than Bos even though he is only 23?
 
Jan 11, 2010
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Arnout said:
Maybe because he has a better palmares than Bos even though he is only 23?
That comparison was Bos was a joke, for the more perceptive reader. I don't see how having a better palmares than him makes you a top sprinter though?

Bouhanni has some good wins under his belt, but put him up against any of the top guys and chances are it's bye bye Bouhanni.
 
Apr 15, 2013
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theyoungest said:
That comparison was Bos was a joke, for the more perceptive reader. I don't see how having a better palmares than him makes you a top sprinter though?

Bouhanni has some good wins under his belt, but put him up against any of the top guys and chances are it's bye bye Bouhanni.
As I see it for flat stages:
1st tier (of similar ability) Kittel/Greipel/Cav

2nd tier (of similar ability) Bouhanni/Viviani/Bos/Demare (flat specialists) Sagan/Degenkolb/Kristoff/Nizzolo/Ciolek (on flats as hilly stage sprinters)

3rd tier (of similar ability) Swift/Farrar/Blythe/Fenn/Goss/Renshaw/ Petacchi/Ferrari/Mezgec/Coquard/Matthews/Richeze/Van Hummel/Markus/Guardini/Modolo.
 
Aug 16, 2013
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CycloAndy said:
As I see it for flat stages:
1st tier (of similar ability) Kittel/Greipel/Cav

2nd tier (of similar ability) Bouhanni/Viviani/Bos/Demare (flat specialists) Sagan/Degenkolb/Kristoff/Nizzolo/Ciolek (on flats as hilly stage sprinters)

3rd tier (of similar ability) Swift/Farrar/Blythe/Fenn/Goss/Renshaw/ Petacchi/Ferrari/Mezgec/Coquard/Matthews/Richeze/Van Hummel/Markus/Guardini/Modolo.
What's the last time Ciolek actually won a important bunch sprint? MSR was just pure class, but in the end it had nothing do to with sprinting anymore, but who had the most energy left.

And are Matthews, Coquard and Modolo slower then Viviani?
 
Aug 16, 2013
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theyoungest said:
What exactly makes Bouhanni a top tier sprinter? The only time he went head to head with Bos last year, Bos won ;)

I was surprised by his climbing in Beijing though. But then again, it's Beijing.
I say to become;)

In the Giro, Bouhanni came relatively close a couple of times beating Cav. That's a thing Bos never was capable of. And Theo is 30, Bouhanni 23.

We all know Bos is on the same level of Cav and Kittel in terms of true speed. But then, it still is the case to deliver that true speed after a race of + 200 k. And i doubt he's able to do that in the future. Bouhanni can, without doubt.
 
CycloAndy said:
As I see it for flat stages:
1st tier (of similar ability) Kittel/Greipel/Cav

2nd tier (of similar ability) Bouhanni/Viviani/Bos/Demare (flat specialists) Sagan/Degenkolb/Kristoff/Nizzolo/Ciolek (on flats as hilly stage sprinters)

3rd tier (of similar ability) Swift/Farrar/Blythe/Fenn/Goss/Renshaw/ Petacchi/Ferrari/Mezgec/Coquard/Matthews/Richeze/Van Hummel/Markus/Guardini/Modolo.
What about Meersman - did pretty well in some of the bunch sprints in stage races last season.
 
Mar 14, 2009
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I hope Swifty can beat all the top sprinters and win every race. Not because I'm such a fan but only because he is on my CQ team :D
 
Apr 15, 2013
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Arredondo said:
What's the last time Ciolek actually won a important bunch sprint? MSR was just pure class, but in the end it had nothing do to with sprinting anymore, but who had the most energy left.

And are Matthews, Coquard and Modolo slower then Viviani?
All fair points, I initially had Modolo and Ciolek the other way round but on second thoughts, both should be third tier on flat stages and 1st or 2nd tier on hillier stages. Same with Matthews and Meersman. Coquard will probably develop into a 2nd or even 1st tier (flat course) sprinter soon but might need another year to truly challenge.
 
Jun 25, 2013
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MatParker117 said:
Because he wasn't really sprinting against sprinters.
Meersman was faster than some pretty fast guys en route to his points jersey at the Dauphine last year. He's definitely a rider who benefits from a hard day in the saddle, but his speed in the Dauphine, Romandie, and Catalunya was consistently putting him ahead of some of those third and second tier guys. He at least belongs in a conversation.

To the original topic of conversation, I think Ben Swift needs to simply provide us with more data before his ability can be accurately judged. It's unfortunate that Sky won't likely give him many opportunities to do so.
 
CycloAndy said:
All fair points, I initially had Modolo and Ciolek the other way round but on second thoughts, both should be third tier on flat stages and 1st or 2nd tier on hillier stages. Same with Matthews and Meersman. Coquard will probably develop into a 2nd or even 1st tier (flat course) sprinter soon but might need another year to truly challenge.
I wonder if Europcar will give Coquard a go at the Tour this year, even just for experience. With their promotion to WT, they perhaps don't need to be in the break every day therefore a sprint finish on the flat stages might suit them.

Edit: I see from PCS they have him listed as leader, had missed that if it's the case.
 
Jun 26, 2013
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argyllflyer said:
I wonder if Europcar will give Coquard a go at the Tour this year, even just for experience. With their promotion to WT, they perhaps don't need to be in the break every day therefore a sprint finish on the flat stages might suit them.

Edit: I see from PCS they have him listed as leader, had missed that if it's the case.
Fascinating to see how he gets on.

http://m.cyclingnews.com/news/speedy-coquard-aiming-for-a-big-win-in-2014
 
Jun 26, 2013
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Don't even a hardcore Ben Swift supporter like me saw that performance coming today. Will he be given another go sprinting in the Vuelta?
 
Aug 16, 2013
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SlimChance said:
Don't even a hardcore Ben Swift supporter like me saw that performance coming today. Will he be given another go sprinting in the Vuelta?
He deserves it, it looks likes he grows back to his 2011 form. And then he's a guy who can win a lot of races.

I like Swift to, he's just a really complete sprinter, and a super nice guy. I hope he said goodbye to all his bad luck the past years.
 
Apr 10, 2011
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Agreed, a superb climber for a sprinter ( as shown first by that performance in U23 at Varese ).

He had so much bad luck, but hopefully this great result can get him rolling on again.
 

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