Ben Swift thread

[red_flanders]

So, great performance today from Ben Swift. He's had great results since before turning pro, and pretty steadily across more than 1 team. Very nice palmares.

Palmares:

2004
1st Points race Junior National Track Championships

2005
1st Scratch race Junior National Track Championships
1st Rotterdam Junior 2-day madison
- 1st Nights 1 & 2
1st Dortmund Under-23 3-day madison

2006
2nd National Team Pursuit Championships

2007
1st Team Pursuit European Under-23 Track Championships
Giro delle Regioni
- 1st Final Stage
- 1st Mountains classification
3rd Milan-Busseto
1st Mountains classification Tour of Britain

2008
1st Coppa della Pace
1st GP Coppa Romita
1st Stage 5 Giro della Valle d'Aosta
4th UCI World Under-23 Road Race Championships

2009
1st Stage 7 Tour of Britain
2nd Nokere Koerse
8th GP di Lugano
10th Gran Premio Dell'insubria

2010
1st Jersey yellow Overall Tour de Picardie
- 1st Stage 2
- 1st Young rider classification
- 1st Points classification
2nd Team Pursuit World Track Championships

2011
1st Stage 5 Vuelta a Castilla y León
1st Stage 5 Tour de Romandie
1st Stage 2 Tour of California
3rd Overall Tour Down Under
1st Stages 2 & 6 Tour Down Under

2012
World Track Championships:
- 1st Scratch race
- 2nd Points race
- 2nd Madison (with Geraint Thomas)

Tour de Pologne
- 1st Stages 2 & 5
- 1st Points classification

2013
3rd National Time Trial Championships
3rd Trofeo Palma de Mallorca
5th Trofeo Serra de Tramuntana
10th Trofeo Campos–Santanyí–Ses Salines
10th RideLondon-Surrey Classic

2014
Settimana Internazionale di Coppi e Bartali
1st Jersey white.svg Points classification
1st Stages 1a & 1b (TTT)
2nd stage 2 Tour of the Basque Country
1st stage 5 Tour of the Basque Country
2nd Trofeo Ses Salines
3rd Trofeo Muro-Port d'Alcúdia
3rd Milan – San Remo
8th Nokere Koerse
1st Stage 5 Vuelta Cyclista al Pais Vasco

This is a rider who historically (meaning "before the advent of oxygen vector doping) we would have considered likely to contend for some GT and classics wins, and in fact did contend for MSR this year.

I would love to be able to see his testing numbers and his BP profile as far back as possible.

On the other hand he's now been with 2 teams widely suspected of either supporting doping or having programs (Sky and Katusha). If you don't suspect those teams it doesn't change the fact that they are both widely suspected of having many dopers on their teams.

So, do we have a very talented young rider? It would appear so on first inspection. Is this a rider who has been preparing from a young age? No way to tell that I can see.

What do you all think? His results are far more impressive than other riders at his age who have gone on to the very top of the sport. What should we expect from Ben Swift? His palmares absolutely crush those of Sky's TdF champions of the last two years. Should we expect him to surpass them both, or will Ben plateau out before reaching the loft heights of domination a la Froome?

He's certainly a rider to watch.

 

[sniper]

a sciandri/ellingworth protege and an early doper if you ask me.
learned the trade in quarrata, me thinks.

btw, why the lack of results in 2013?

 

[Gloin22]

He had a massive fall in the last classic in Mallorca.

2 months not riding at all. Came back, then developed a shoulder injury which ruled him out for most races and hindered him until operation was taken place.

 

[lllludo]

Swifty superstar

the guy can climb with the bests, resists 300km to finish 3rd in MSR so he's now the favourite for Amstel Gold Race (because Sagan will be tired of Paris-Roubaix) and he's a contender for LBL.

3 years ago I saw this guy dropped on Mur de Bretagne during the Tour de France. Last year he was nowhere to be seen and suddenly tada...

To me it sounds like another unrealistic rider evolution made in team SKY...

 

[proffate]

When you say "GT wins" I assume you mean "stage wins" as I don't see any evidence of great tt/climbing talent (just enough to beat some other sprinters).

 

[Gloin22]

the guy can climb with the bests, resists 300km to finish 3rd in MSR so he's now the favourite for Amstel Gold Race (because Sagan will be tired of Paris-Roubaix) and he's a contender for LBL.

3 years ago I saw this guy dropped on Mur de Bretagne during the Tour de France. Last year he was nowhere to be seen and suddenly tada...

To me it sounds like another unrealistic rider evolution made in team SKY...

Lol, by who?

Not sure but young rider develop if you didnt know, meaning they usually get better

 

[lllludo]

Lol, by who?

Not sure but young rider develop if you didnt know, meaning they usually get better

He's the logical favourite for Amstel. One year out of 2 there's a sprint on Cauberg. Last year was Kreuziger solo so this year it's for a sprinter, who can climb and resist the distance: Swifty. Logic no ?

Yes and of course every young rider develop and sky is the limit, blablabla

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Based on Swift's progression and performance today, I still think there are 40 or so other riders who are considerable more suspicious.

However there is just no way of telling who dopes or not these days.

Lets see how he performs in the Ardennes.

 

[zlev11]

it's weird how Swift always seems to go well when the rest of Sky are having problems (2010 and the first half of 2011)

not saying that it's anything doping related, it's just strange

 

[red_flanders]

When you say "GT wins" I assume you mean "stage wins" as I don't see any evidence of great tt/climbing talent (just enough to beat some other sprinters).

Given his palmares to date, neither would surprise me. His palmares are varied and impressive enough IMO.

Rather unlike some of his teammates who now flog everyone.

 

[hrotha]

I don't find Swift particularly suspicious except by association. Same with most non-GT Sky riders.

But let's give it some more time to see whether he's taking a step forward.

 

[Gloin22]

I don't find Swift particularly suspicious except by association. Same with most non-GT Sky riders.

But let's give it some more time to see whether he's taking a step forward.

We came to every rider taking step forward in their carrers being scrutinized now..?

God almighty..

 

[hrotha]

We came to every rider taking step forward in their carrers being scrutinized now..?

God almighty..

Every rider has to be scrutinized, yes, or you will get taken in for a ride more often than not. Doesn't mean they'll come out of that scrutiny being particularly suspicious.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

If you only scrutinize a few riders, you get accused of hating those guys

 

[proffate]

Every rider has to be scrutinized, yes, or you will get taken in for a ride more often than not. Doesn't mean they'll come out of that scrutiny being particularly suspicious.

Most riders don't have their own thread though, and very few that have their own thread are sprinters.

 

[Mellow Velo]

the guy can climb with the bests, resists 300km to finish 3rd in MSR so he's now the favourite for Amstel Gold Race (because Sagan will be tired of Paris-Roubaix) and he's a contender for LBL.

3 years ago I saw this guy dropped on Mur de Bretagne during the Tour de France. Last year he was nowhere to be seen and suddenly tada...

To me it sounds like another unrealistic rider evolution made in team SKY...

Or maybe because Sagan isn't riding Amstel, or the Ardennes.

3 years ago I was on the Mur de Bretange, too, so don't bullsh*t any more
than is necessary.
"He rides for Sky, therefore he dopes", will suffice.

 

[BYOP88]

Or maybe because Sagan isn't riding Amstel, or the Ardennes.

3 years ago I was on the Mur de Bretange, too, so don't bullsh*t any more
than is necessary.
"He rides for Sky, therefore he dopes", will suffice.

No way I was on the Mur de Bretagne 3 years ago too, What were the odds?

MV relax man, everyone who's British loves and believes in Sky.

 

[RownhamHill]

So, great performance today from Ben Swift. He's had great results since before turning pro, and pretty steadily across more than 1 team. Very nice palmares.

Palmares:

2004
1st Points race Junior National Track Championships

2005
1st Scratch race Junior National Track Championships
1st Rotterdam Junior 2-day madison
- 1st Nights 1 & 2
1st Dortmund Under-23 3-day madison

2006
2nd National Team Pursuit Championships

2007
1st Team Pursuit European Under-23 Track Championships
Giro delle Regioni
- 1st Final Stage
- 1st Mountains classification
3rd Milan-Busseto
1st Mountains classification Tour of Britain

2008
1st Coppa della Pace
1st GP Coppa Romita
1st Stage 5 Giro della Valle d'Aosta
4th UCI World Under-23 Road Race Championships

2009
1st Stage 7 Tour of Britain
2nd Nokere Koerse
8th GP di Lugano
10th Gran Premio Dell'insubria

2010
1st Jersey yellow Overall Tour de Picardie
- 1st Stage 2
- 1st Young rider classification
- 1st Points classification
2nd Team Pursuit World Track Championships

2011
1st Stage 5 Vuelta a Castilla y León
1st Stage 5 Tour de Romandie
1st Stage 2 Tour of California
3rd Overall Tour Down Under
1st Stages 2 & 6 Tour Down Under

2012
World Track Championships:
- 1st Scratch race
- 2nd Points race
- 2nd Madison (with Geraint Thomas)

Tour de Pologne
- 1st Stages 2 & 5
- 1st Points classification

2013
3rd National Time Trial Championships
3rd Trofeo Palma de Mallorca
5th Trofeo Serra de Tramuntana
10th Trofeo Campos–Santanyí–Ses Salines
10th RideLondon-Surrey Classic

2014
Settimana Internazionale di Coppi e Bartali
1st Jersey white.svg Points classification
1st Stages 1a & 1b (TTT)
2nd stage 2 Tour of the Basque Country
1st stage 5 Tour of the Basque Country
2nd Trofeo Ses Salines
3rd Trofeo Muro-Port d'Alcúdia
3rd Milan – San Remo
8th Nokere Koerse
1st Stage 5 Vuelta Cyclista al Pais Vasco

This is a rider who historically (meaning "before the advent of oxygen vector doping) we would have considered likely to contend for some GT and classics wins, and in fact did contend for MSR this year.

I would love to be able to see his testing numbers and his BP profile as far back as possible.

On the other hand he's now been with 2 teams widely suspected of either supporting doping or having programs (Sky and Katusha). If you don't suspect those teams it doesn't change the fact that they are both widely suspected of having many dopers on their teams.

So, do we have a very talented young rider? It would appear so on first inspection. Is this a rider who has been preparing from a young age? No way to tell that I can see.

What do you all think? His results are far more impressive than other riders at his age who have gone on to the very top of the sport. What should we expect from Ben Swift? His palmares absolutely crush those of Sky's TdF champions of the last two years. Should we expect him to surpass them both, or will Ben plateau out before reaching the loft heights of domination a la Froome?

He's certainly a rider to watch.

I love your OTOH point - he's been with two teams widely suspecting of doping. Essentially what you're saying is he's been with two pro-tour teams!

Anyway, on my phone at the moment so not easy to find the link, but about a month ago in a discussion here about Thomas I posted a 2010 guardian article, which mentioned Swift as a more obvious tour winner than Geraint - seems relevant to mention here. He's also been pretty clear his focus this year is on week long stage races like this one.

He seems like a nice guy to me, good luck to him.

 

[red_flanders]

We came to every rider taking step forward in their carrers being scrutinized now..?

God almighty..

"Scrutinized" is pretty strong here. "Discussed" was my intent. I have no opinion about him, and started the discussion (it's a discussion forum) to hear what others thought.

Discussing one rider is pointedly not discussing every rider.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

He's the logical favourite for Amstel. One year out of 2 there's a sprint on Cauberg. Last year was Kreuziger solo so this year it's for a sprinter, who can climb and resist the distance: Swifty. Logic no ?

Yes and of course every young rider develop and sky is the limit, blablabla

Really? Look, he did well today, with a bunch of climbs near the end. But there are, like, 35 climbs in Amstel Gold. While it is a bit easier for a sprinter now with the finish line moved from the top of Cauberg, it's not like it was when Zabel won. I think he can get a good placement, but Óscar Freire used to get a good placement in Amstel Gold every year, and the nearest he came to winning it was when he tried to solo in. The business end climbs today (Ixua from Etxebarria, the easier side, and Aiastia from Elgoibar) are longer than anything in Amstel Gold, but they do not have ramps of the kind that we know País Vasco for (like Gaintza in stage 1, for example) nor of the kind on many climbs of Amstel Gold. When the big attacks come at the business end on Cauberg, there's only a kilometre for him to hold on to get to the sprint. Of the group behind Kreuziger last year, the best sprinter you would argue is Greg van Avermaet... he came in last of the group.

Swift winning Amstel Gold would not be a shock, and I think he's an outside contender. Calling him the 'logical favourite' is, I think, an exaggeration of his capabilities; today was hardly a puncheur special, and the race is notably harder than the Urdax stage he was 2nd in.

 

[Mellow Velo]

No way I was on the Mur de Bretagne 3 years ago too, What were the odds?

MV relax man, everyone who's British loves and believes in Sky.

Amazing coincidence.

My point being we don't have to get all remedial about what happens to team domestiques at the end of a stage.
It is a very poor way to try and make a point.
My issue here, once again is about style, not Sky: the old scorn over substance.
Too much of one, not enough of the other.

 

[del1962]

So basically Red Flanders has started a thread on Ben Swift in the clinic to say he is not a doper, and to cast aspersions at his teamates who already have plenty of threads about them, if I didn't know better I would call that trolling.

 

[The Hitch]

We came to every rider taking step forward in their carrers being scrutinized now..?

God almighty..

Don't act like you haven't accused people with 0 evidence before? Youve done it a number of times in the pro section.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So basically Red Flanders has started a thread on Ben Swift in the clinic to say he is not a doper, and to cast aspersions at his teamates who already have plenty of threads about them, if I didn't know better I would call that trolling.

But since you, by your own admission, do know better, you wouldn't, and therefore these hypothetical situations need detain us no further.

 

[RownhamHill]

But since you, by your own admission, do know better, you wouldn't, and therefore these hypothetical situations need detain us no further.

Today's been an entertaining day in the clinic. I do wish they'd left the shoe thread open a little longer though.