Bernal vs. Pogacar vs. Evenepoel

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I like it.
Carapaz career trajectory as a GT contender is very similar to Nibali's. First win at 25/26 (considered a fluke by some), achieved podiums in all GTs a couple of years later, better in GTs than in one week stage races, always very consistent when targeting GC, opportunistic.

Of course Nibali was a better TTer in his peak years and actually dominated a couple of GTs (which I doubt Carapaz will be able to do), but I think the comparison makes sense.
I think they’re all good right now. Pogacar dominating like Froome with no end in sight. Bernal already being written off after winning and performing well like Contador. Roglic and Vingegaard are in the Valverde and Quintana section of a GC rider looking out of it but always doing the best in the Vuelta and the next up and comer with Rabofail and Moviblunder. Carapaz being looked down upon despite winning a GC and considering it a fluke.
 
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Bernal is not top-3 anymore, IMO. Vingegaard >> Bernal.

Bernal may have won the Giro, but only beat Caruso by a pretty small margin. Bernal had the 2 best doms in the race, too -- Martinez and Castroviejo. Martinez (could have) dropped him in several mountain stages, too.

Imagine if Caruso had those two super doms racing for him instead...

Yes, Bernal raced pretty aggressively in the first part of the race, but never opened up a huge gap over Caruso.

It just wasn't an impressive enough GT win to put him up there with Vingegaard, who didn't lose a lot of time to Pogacar in weeks 2 & 3.

Same for Carapaz, pretty much, except for the ITT

I seriously doubt that a rider that got dropped by S. Yates, Martinez, Almeida and Caruso could have stayed with Pogacar, Vingegaard and Carapaz. Or Roglic. (Although I suspect that Almeida could be up there with the best very soon)


Bernal may (or may not) face the 2 best GT specialists in the Vuelta. Both of them with a less than ideal prep, to put it mildly. If he's competitive or even wins that won't mean he's top-3, either. The 5th best GC rider in the world could easily win the GC, IMO.

We won't know until Bernal targets the Tour again (which may be never). He's a clever guy. He actually has a shot at the 2021 Vuelta. He could complete his GT collection and bounce.
Due to his strong TT it can certaintly be argued that Vingegaard is to be favored over Bernal on a lot of parcours.

What I happen to find disturbing is the tone of your post. You are already discounting a hypothetical Bernal-win at the Vuelta as meaningless for this conversation and suggest that he is a coward by targeting races where he does not have to compete against the best (needless to say that you do this without giving any reasons for why that might be the case). It's puzzling that you single out a young rider who seems to be one of the most humble in the peloton, always giving credit and admiration to competitors that beat him and not making excuses.

I know this is the internet and I won't speculate on the origin of your obvious spite and animosity but you should sober up your style of posting as this devalues any points you try to make on the subject. If you truly love the sport that you should show the riders the respect they deserve.
 
How about Tom Pidcock? So far he's succeeded in completely different races but his physique seems perfect for GT climbs. He's a man of many talents and with a bit of training he could beat 5 k run WR, right? :p He's another prodigy, will he become a climbing monster threatening the youngsters from this thread?
 
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How about Tom Pidcock? So far he's succeeded in completely different races but his physique seems perfect for GT climbs. He's a man of many talents and with a bit of training he could beat 5 k run WR, right? :p He's another prodigy, will he become a climbing monster threatening the youngsters from this thread?
Pidcock may be the most versatile rider in the peloton, but so far he hasn't shown anything as a climber in a decent pro peloton. When Evenepoel gets ridiculed for being in the discussion, then Pidcock shouldn't even be mentioned.
 
Pidcock may be the most versatile rider in the peloton, but so far he hasn't shown anything as a climber in a decent pro peloton. When Evenepoel gets ridiculed for being in the discussion, then Pidcock shouldn't even be mentioned.
For the sake of consistency I will entirely dismiss Pidcock for not even getting top 5 at FW because apparently even 3 minute climbs are too long for him.
 
Pidcock may be the most versatile rider in the peloton, but so far he hasn't shown anything as a climber in a decent pro peloton. When Evenepoel gets ridiculed for being in the discussion, then Pidcock shouldn't even be mentioned.
Van Aert won a mountain stage, a TT and a sprint in the same 3 weeks, how can anyone be more versatile than that.
I think Pidcock has almost unlimited potential but has not delivered yet.
 
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I think Evenepoel biggest disadvantage is that he is not as technical on the bike as the rest of the peloton. Below average. He has been prone to mistakes so far.

At the same time that is natural since he hasnt raced his bike from a young age and only started competed a few years ago. He doesnt have it in his backbone. This is where age is not on his side, because he is playing catch up.

He for sure got power and physical abilities, but riding away solo by simply being stronger will be a hard thing to do every time.

I see his future at one-day races, the classics and one-week races, but what do I know.

Hoping for a good Olympics. :)
 
I think we need to put breaks on the Vingegaard talk. His biggest wins are stages in the UAE and Balloon Tours. Is he really going to be a winner? Or is he content to be Pogacar's lapdog? The jury's still out.
Think he's shown more than Froome after the 2011 Vuelta. That's not to say he'll dominate by any stretch. But I don't doubt he can be a winner in the right race.
 
Pidcock does the same things as van Aert, just not on the same level yet, and he also does mountainbike.
And he's 5 years younger...I doubt Pidcock will be a bunch sprinter on the same level but I think he can be as least as good as Alaf in the mountains because of smaller frame. He seems rather similar to Alaphilippe actually, though I hope he does a better job at conserving energy and staying in his sprint lane...
 
I know this is the internet and I won't speculate on the origin of your obvious spite and animosity but you should sober up your style of posting as this devalues any points you try to make on the subject. If you truly love the sport that you should show the riders the respect they deserve.
Well alright, I leave this thread for a few days and a gift awaits me. This was not what I intended to convey, although I've noticed that my posts do sometimes come off harsher than I intended them to be. I'll keep it in mind.

I like Bernal - I just don't like it at all when teams try to bag easy wins with their star riders (it wasn't an easy win in the end, but I think that was the idea) . Bernal is a very recent TDF winner and should IMO be racing against the very best, instead of racing the races they won't target.
 
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Well alright, I leave this thread for a few days and a gift awaits me. This was not what I intended to convey, although I've noticed that my posts do sometimes come off harsher than I intended them to be. I'll keep it in mind.

I like Bernal - I just don't like it at all when teams try to bag easy wins with their star riders (it wasn't an easy win in the end, but I think that was the idea) . Bernal is a very recent TDF winner and should IMO be racing against the very best, instead of racing the races they won't target.
i think that is a bit unfair on Bernal. With the Tour already on his palmares a crack at the Giro to make big strides on the Triple is a very reasonable choice.
 
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i think that is a bit unfair on Bernal. With the Tour already on his palmares a crack at the Giro to make big strides on the Triple is a very reasonable choice.
Yeah, it was an intelligent and reasonable choice, the "right" one, just not one I'm a fan of. I want to see the best riders at the Tour, until the teams are like **** the Tour and send their best riders to the Giro instead. Usually only a few teams do so.
 
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Well alright, I leave this thread for a few days and a gift awaits me. This was not what I intended to convey, although I've noticed that my posts do sometimes come off harsher than I intended them to be. I'll keep it in mind.

I like Bernal - I just don't like it at all when teams try to bag easy wins with their star riders (it wasn't an easy win in the end, but I think that was the idea) . Bernal is a very recent TDF winner and should IMO be racing against the very best, instead of racing the races they won't target.
This really sounds a lot more reasonable than the post I was referring to. So I am sorry that I misjudged you based on your writings.

That being said, I disagree with you about Bernal. My thinking is:
1. We should remember that Bernal's stock was at an all-time low after last year's tour. Their were - and still are - legitimate health concerns as chronic back issues are amongst the worst things that could happen to a professional athlete. It was questioned if he would ever be the same again. At the same time is 2019 TdF was considered a fluke by quiet a few. Many - including myself - were unsure about his chances of ever winning another GT.

2. This year's tour parcour with more ITT kms and little altitude to speak off was just not a good fit for Bernal. On the other hand, Giro parcours generally fit Bernal's skillset a lot better. I don't think that is a reach to say that Bernal should be considered stronger on the average Giro parcour than on the average Tour parcour.

3. He has personal ties to Italy and in interviews he seems more passionate about the Giro than about other races. That might be a reach on my part though.

4. He is riding for Ineos and in the end it is a team decision. Ineos probably wanted a British captain again and Carapaz had faced pre-race favorite Roglic to a virtual tie with little team support at the Vuelta. Bernal dropped in the internal ranking and based on 1. and 2. Ineos made the sensitive decision to offer him Giro leadership.
 

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