Bernal vs. Pogacar vs. Evenepoel

Page 20 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
When Roglic stays upright for 3 weeks currently only Pogacar can live with him. Pogacar has very few clear weaknesses and is as rounded a GC rider as we have had since maybe Hinault so will be very hard to beat as it is reasonable to assume that if avoids injury/illness he will continue to get stronger and greater endurance in the next 2-3 years.

Need more reference points for Vingegaard as its a very different thing going in as a super domestique with no pressure for a result to building your season around a GC bid. Some perspective is also needed about how far behind Pogacar he was no there was no need for Pogi to try too much to drop him in the last week. He seems to have a balanced skillset but only time will tell us if it was a Bardet against Froome style highpoint or if he can be a consistent contender.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
There were hints from Bernal he is doing the Tour next year. Pogačar as a defending champion likely doesn't have a real choice regarding not to compete. Roglič likely doesn't have a real choice either as JV wants the Tour title and likely they know that without Roglič the chances are slim for the next couple of years.

Evenepoel could i guess try to capitalise on that (doing Giro). That is if he is a genuine GT contender. Currently we don't' know that.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
There were hints from Bernal he is doing the Tour next year. Pogačar as a defending champion likely doesn't have a real choice regarding not to compete. Roglič likely doesn't have a real choice either as JV wants the Tour title and likely they know that without Roglič the chances are slim for the next couple of years.

Evenepoel could i guess try to capitalise on that (doing Giro). That is if he is a genuine GT contender. Currently we don't' know that.
I'm sure that if the Giro would be ridden now, Evenepoel would win it by 5 mins at least!

We are at that point again, right?
 
Reactions: wheresmybrakes
It's very hard to rate the GT field below Roglic and Pogacar right now tbh. Lot of inconsistency, crashing out, etc

Bernal is probably up with those 2 climbing wise on his day but other than that I dunno. I think the gap between Roglic-Pogacar and the 3rd best rider could easily be bigger than the gap between the 3rd best GT rider and the 10th best GT rider.

Currently I would just leave Evenepoel unranked as a GT rider cause there's insufficient information.
You think Vingegaard could be a one hit wonder? I'd put him firmly in third place, seeing as he dropped everyone including Pogacar on Ventoux and was the best TTer out of the GC guys overall.

Though it's a bit concerning that he has done zilch after San Sebastian.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
You think Vingegaard could be a one hit wonder? I'd put him firmly in third place, seeing as he dropped everyone including Pogacar on Ventoux and was the best TTer out of the GC guys overall.

Though it's a bit concerning that he has done zilch after San Sebastian.
I have Vingegaard as 4th best tbh. I think putting him above the Giro winner and Tour winner of 2 years ago based on a single GT is a bit much for now.

I don't think he has the highest base level, but it could also simply be Jumbo taking it slow with the rider, and I think he had some minor injury in Artic and he also became a dad just before the Tour IIRC.
 
You think Vingegaard could be a one hit wonder? I'd put him firmly in third place, seeing as he dropped everyone including Pogacar on Ventoux and was the best TTer out of the GC guys overall.

Though it's a bit concerning that he has done zilch after San Sebastian. His base level must be really low ...unless something else is going on.
Races Bernal has won at age 24 (among others): Tour, Giro, Paris-Nice, Suisse, l'Avenir.
And you rate him below Vingegaard? Tough.
I know you'll say low level, back problems and so on, but still. Looks very strange.
 
Races Bernal has won at age 24 (among others): Tour, Giro, Paris-Nice, Suisse, l'Avenir.
And you rate him below Vingegaard? Tough.
I know you'll say low level, back problems and so on, but still. Looks very strange.
If all the best riders targeted the Tour (you can expand it to any probable GT route) next year, on average who do you think would do best? That's the framework I use to rank riders: it's not based on merits of the past, but projections about the future.

It's a simplification (e.g. when it comes to leadership and support) and there's a lot of uncertainty, but I think Vingegaard may be slightly more likely to replicate this year's performance next year in the Tour than Bernal is to perform overall at a similar level. I think it's fair to have them as equals for now.
 
Races Bernal has won at age 24 (among others): Tour, Giro, Paris-Nice, Suisse, l'Avenir.
And you rate him below Vingegaard? Tough.
I know you'll say low level, back problems and so on, but still. Looks very strange.
It may look that way, but most talented riders hit it big when they're a bit older. Bernal, Pogacar and Evenepoel are still the exceptions to the rule.

I rate Vingegaard's Tour higher than Bernal's Giro. That's what it comes down to. Vingegaard proved to be a way better time trialist and a more consistent climber. Had almost zero team support. Put them in the same GT and Vingegaard would have probably come out on top. He may not be the finisher Bernal is, but seems to have all the markings of a GT specialist. I was very impressed.

I was only talking GTs BTW. Not nearly as interested in one-week races.
 
You think Vingegaard could be a one hit wonder? I'd put him firmly in third place, seeing as he dropped everyone including Pogacar on Ventoux and was the best TTer out of the GC guys overall.

Though it's a bit concerning that he has done zilch after San Sebastian.
There once was a man named Julich
In 98 he took on champion Ullrich
In 99 he crashed and his hopes were all dashed
Poor Bob even finished his last Tour with a crash
 
Does Pogacar actually have a single clear weakness?
The guy seems unbreakable.
Strong sides: climbing, time-trialing, explosivity, fast finish, descending, bike handling (Slovenia CX champion), 3-week endurance, mentality.
Weak sides: error 404
X-factor: possibly vulnerable in hot weather (his legendary cold weather tolerance compansates for it though).
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Sandisfan and topt
Pogacar is strictly limited to a max of 2 legendary rides per GT.
I do think the average level he displayed in the 2021 Tour could be considered a minor weakness. According to the team he didn't quite match his 2020 values. Although it was in response to Clinic-related questions, I don't think it's entirely out of the question that this could be the case.

Although I was more than skeptical at first about Roglic' chances to beat him, now I'm not so sure. The level Pogacar displayed on the Ventoux, in the Pyrenees (2 wins, but not uber dominant ones) and in the final TT was a bit less than expected.

Maybe he was asked to dial it down a bit, but I'm not quite sure that was the case.
 
If all the best riders targeted the Tour (you can expand it to any probable GT route) next year, on average who do you think would do best? That's the framework I use to rank riders: it's not based on merits of the past, but projections about the future.

It's a simplification (e.g. when it comes to leadership and support) and there's a lot of uncertainty, but I think Vingegaard may be slightly more likely to replicate this year's performance next year in the Tour than Bernal is to perform overall at a similar level. I think it's fair to have them as equals for now.
At least I wouldn't go so far as to rank Vingegaard above Bernal. I know there was that one stage where he "dropped" Pogacar, that is gained a few seconds on him until the descent. But I suppose that we expect so much from Bernal that we are disappointed when he doesn't deliver on one day, while Vingegaard has the benefit of the wow-effect (he also wowed me in the Tour). In the end Bernal's performances are not long ago and there is no reason to think that he has already declined. What his past performances show it that he has an abundance of talent, he has shown it repeatedly, even if he peaks early he's still young, and his last time trial was really good.
While there is a questionmark behind how he will do in future, whether he really doesn't deal well with heat and even more whether his back will be good and most importantly he will always lose time in a time trial against the very best, there are also many questionmarks behind Vingegaard: Can he replicate this season, how will he deal with being a leader with pressure and most of all, what if he's put under pressure by UAE with Pogacar and Ineos with Bernal (for instance on a descent) because he's seen as the main rival?
I don't want to downplay Vingegaard, but I think people are very hard on Bernal.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
I do think the average level he displayed in the 2021 Tour could be considered a minor weakness. According to the team he didn't quite match his 2020 values. Although it was in response to Clinic-related questions, I don't think it's entirely out of the question that this could be the case.

Although I was more than skeptical at first about Roglic' chances to beat him, now I'm not so sure. The level Pogacar displayed on the Ventoux, in the Pyrenees (2 wins, but not uber dominant ones) and in the final TT was a bit less than expected.

Maybe he was asked to dial it down a bit, but I'm not quite sure that was the case.
Remember he was supposed to slow down in like May 2020? I think he hits top shape really easily and has to take care not to peak too early. I think he peaked in the first week of the Tour this year and that's also why he was slightly worse in the third week and why he was so tired after the Olympics and didn't do the Vuelta.

The "his numbers aren't that good" was just Clinical defense consdiering the atrocious weather it was all in, though I do think maybe there's some overreaction to the Grand Bornand stage.
 
Reactions: 18-Valve. (pithy)
I think Roglic at this Vuelta was the best we've seen him. Tour '21 level Pogacar vs. Vuelta '21 level Roglic at the Tour next year would be amazing. I think we'd need a proper high altitude Tour & v.limited TT to get Bernal ahead of either of those two at the moment.
 
I dont think that exist even in theory TDF route where Bernal can beat Pog or Rog.
I really like him but his TDF win was the result of a bit worse competition that year and against the same field he would win again. If I was Bernal I would avoid the Tour, nothing to gain there.
 
I dont think that exist even in theory TDF route where Bernal can beat Pog or Rog.
I really like him but his TDF win was the result of a bit worse competition that year and against the same field he would win again. If I was Bernal I would avoid the Tour, nothing to gain there.
Maybe a route with high altitude + some sterrato + some crosswind stages + no time trials.

Bernal is strong on gravel type stuff and crosswinds and he is more intelligent rider. It's probably not enough to beat Pogacar or Primizroglic but it's possible to find a way. It would be like the great Vincenzo Nibali finding a way to beat frome or Alberto Pistolero
 
I dont think that exist even in theory TDF route where Bernal can beat Pog or Rog.
I really like him but his TDF win was the result of a bit worse competition that year and against the same field he would win again. If I was Bernal I would avoid the Tour, nothing to gain there.
I think he would be strongly up against it but if you don't enter you cant win. Crashes and illness can easily strike so when you are 3rd best it only needs a few things to go your way and you are right in the mix.
 
Reactions: memyselfandI
Pogacar has never really been tested yet mentally . He has been too strong
Bernal & Roglic have been tested and have come back strong

However I cannot see either beating an in form Pogacar just yet but give it a couple of years
Pogacar like all cyclists will have set backs and then we will see where he is mentally and how good his bounce back
 
Reactions: Sandisfan

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts