Better GT rider in their primes: Evans vs Nibali

[Walkman]

Simple question:

Who do you think is the best GT rider with regard to their respective peak. Cadel in 2007 or 2011 and Nibali in 2014.

I know Nibali has been improving up to this season and might continue to do so, but the question is not about potential. I just want to know who you think has demonstrated the best performance at their respective peak up until today.

 

[Miburo]

Nibali obviously. Evans's competition was tougher of course but just like nibali he won cause of very beneficial circumstances (he still pulled it off though).

Evans never impressed me the way Nibali did, even if nibali's competition was weaker.

 

[Red Rick]

1. Really don't get the poll, it's not debated over here and imo it's not even close. Evans never won a MTF in a GT and was never even close to being the best climber. Nibali on the other hand has won all 3 GT's, finished 1-2-1 in his last 3 GT's, destroying everyone uphill and in the mtt's in his last Giro and Tour.

2. Where's the Vino option, CN forum polls 101, there's always a Vino option

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Vino>>Nibali>>>>>>>>>>Evans

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Vino>>>>>>>>>>>Nibali+Evans

 

[Jspear]

1. Really don't get the poll, it's not debated over here and imo it's not even close. Evans never won a MTF in a GT and was never even close to being the best climber. Nibali on the other hand has won all 3 GT's, finished 1-2-1 in his last 3 GT's, destroying everyone uphill and in the mtt's in his last Giro and Tour.

2. Where's the Vino option, CN forum polls 101, there's always a Vino option

My guess is this poll was created in light of a discussion that got started in the "Cadel Ponders Future While Preparing for Vuelta" thread.

Nibali of course was/is better in his top form. His Tour win was WAY more impressive (in spite of there being less competition) - 4 stage wins, over 7 minutes....A 2011 Cadel could not have done what VN did given the exact same situation (parcours, competition, ect.)

 

[Angliru]

Vincenzo Nibali>>>>>>>>>>Evans

There you go.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Voted Nibali because of his palmares, but if the poll was about who is/was the best overall rider, I'd definitely go for Evans.

 

[Rollthedice]

Should have been Evans versus Sastre. Candil wins versus Cadel. This poll is no contest, obviously.

 

[Netserk]

Should have been Evans versus Sastre. Candil wins versus Cadel. This poll is no contest, obviously.

Throw Dennis in and make it a three-way.

 

[whittashau]

Nibali easily. Anyone who argues otherwise is flat out wrong.

 

[Arredondo]

Nibali ofcourse, buy hey, i want to give Cadel some support.

The guy won Fleche, Tour, Tirreno, 2x Romandie and CI. And he became WC. Nibali hasn't won a classic yet, or wear the rainbow jersey. Evans definitely has won a wider range of races, and was a top GC rider too.

But Nibali, before ''certain'' people are going to shoot me

On the other hand, you have to have some luck to win a GT. Nibali obviously has in his career. Cadel in his prime days was also damn good. Not nice to watch, but good.

 

[Netserk]

Nibali ofcourse, buy hey, i want to give Cadel some support.

The guy won Fleche, Tour, Tirreno, 2x Romandie and CI. And he became WC. Nibali hasn't won a classic yet, or wear the rainbow jersey. Evans definitely has won a wider range of races, and was a top GC rider too.

But Nibali, before ''certain'' people are going to shoot me

I guess you missed the title.

 

[Rollthedice]

Throw Dennis in and make it a three-way.

You mean Menchov? While we are at it I think a four way with Ivan would be even better.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

You mean Menchov? While we are at it I think a four way with Ivan would be even better.

Evans vs Basso vs Saste vs Menchov vs Kloden

 

[Arredondo]

I guess you missed the title.

I guess you missed my whole post.

This discussion is useluss. That's why i want to give Cadel some moral support. I know it has nothing to do with the question, that's why i picked Nibali ofc.

You can better make a thread on who is the best overall rider.

 

[hfer07]

What's the purpose of this pole anyways?

 

[ILovecycling]

really difficult to answer lol.not worth to give any arugments either i think

 

[Walkman]

What's the purpose of this pole anyways?

To see what people thinK obviously.

How can this thread make you confused?

 

[Afrank]

If were just talking GT's then Nibs easy.

-Winner of all 3 GT's and 4 other podiums vs. winner of 1 GT plus 4 other podiums.
-Took yellow on the 2nd stage and held it all the way with just one day without.
-7+ minute lead.
-4 stage wins.
-Complete domination all race not even having to go deep most of the time.
-Still improving vs. on the way down.

Case closed.

Would be better if the question was more about best overall rider. I'd still say Nibali, but Evans one day record would help him close the gap some.

 

[Walkman]

Nibali obviously. Evans's competition was tougher

Then how can it be Nibali obviously?

Evans did beat a prime Andy Schleck on a mountainous course with only 42.5 km of ITT. Nibali has never faced such competition and triumphed. Put Nibali of 2014 in the 2007 Tour. Do you really believe he will win that race? Or 2011?

of course but just like nibali he won cause of very beneficial circumstances

Klöden, Vino, Wiggins, Brajkovič, Horner and Van den Broeck all did abandon but none of them had any real chance of winning. Wiggins is probably the wild card here, but seeing as how he performed at the Vuelta later that year, I don't think he would have been able to compete for victory.

Contador did lose time in the first week because of a crash but I don't think that was the decisive thing. He had done a really hard Giro and was suffering from it.

So while there were riders that crashed, none of them would likely have implicated the top-2 spots that much.

Nibali on the other hand was the third favorite going in to the race and had to compete with Péraud, who had a ninth place as a best result in any grad Tour (2011), where he most likely benefitted greatly from all the crashes.

Pinot and Bardet, the two talented youngster, are probably going to be great GT-riders in the future, but put them in the 2007 or 2011 Tour and tell me, do you really believe they will be top six?

Valverde is getting old. And yet, Nibali "only" beat him with 9.40. In 2007 he was 11.14 after Evans.

Let's face it. Nibali dominated in the absence of competition. Froome and Contador crashed out, Quintana didn't enter and J-rod was still suffering form the crash during the Giro (i.e couldn't prepare accordingly).

Only four riders of the top ten (excluding Nibali himself); Valverde, Zubeldia, Mollema and van Garderen has been top-5 in another GT. Of those four, both Valverde and Zubeldia have both peaked a long time ago.

Evans never impressed me the way Nibali did, even if nibali's competition was weaker.

This isn't about who impressed you the most, it is about who was the best GT-rider during their respective peaks.

 

[SeriousSam]

2011 Tour Evans beats all versions of Nibali we have seen thus far.

Evans.

 

[Walkman]

If were just talking GT's then Nibs easy.

-Winner of all 3 GT's and 4 other podiums vs. winner of 1 GT plus 4 other podiums.
-Took yellow on the 2nd stage and held it all the way with just one day without.
-7+ minute lead.
-4 stage wins.
-Complete domination all race not even having to go deep most of the time.
-Still improving vs. on the way down.

Case closed.

Would be better if the question was more about best overall rider. I'd still say Nibali, but Evans one day record would help him close the gap some.

Maybe read the original post again?

This is not about domination or stage wins, it's about performance. Do you really think Nibali of 2014 would beat Evans in the 2007 Tour? Or the 2011 Tour?

And how would Evans of 2007 or 2011 fare in the 2014 Tour against Nibali?

That is the question. That Nibali also have won the Giro and the Vuelta doesn't matter. Put Evans in peak condition in the 2010 Vuelta and he would win it easily. And the age thing isn't a relevant issue since this is peak vs peak.

 

[Netserk]

Maybe read the original post again?

This is not about domination or stage wins, it's about performance. Do you really think Nibali of 2014 would beat Evans in the 2007 Tour? Or the 2011 Tour?

And how would Evans of 2007 or 2011 fare in the 2014 Tour against Nibali?

That is the question. That Nibali also have won the Giro and the Vuelta doesn't matter. Put Evans in peak condition in the 2010 Vuelta and he would win it easily. And the age thing isn't a relevant issue since this is peak vs peak.

I think the current Nibali would do far better without the passport, just like Evans did.

 

[roundabout]

Is there really a huge difference between the passportless Evans of 2007 and Evans on the passport in 2011? I don't really think there is in terms of performance.