Beware of counterfeit De Rosa frames

[cycledave]

I purchased a 'De Rosa' King 3 from eBay and it has been a real eye opener.

The advert said it was a 'real' frame and its serial number could be registered for full warranty. Additionally the bike 'shop' was located in the UK, not Asia, so I felt pretty comfortable purchasing the frame through the 'Buy it Now' feature of eBay. The frame arrived damaged, which is how I discovered it was a fake. However, it looks authentic in almost every respect.

To make a long story short, the frame was found to be a counterfeit. Mr. De Rosa himself asked me to send it to his factory to use in his investigation to stop this practice. He offered me a 'rea' one in exchange. Now that is really amazing. I help him and he helps me back. That is impressive !

So beware there are FAKE De Rosa's out there.

if you need any more information please contact me at : cycledave@hotmail.com

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I purchased a 'De Rosa' King 3 from eBay and it has been a real eye opener.

The advert said it was a 'real' frame and its serial number could be registered for full warranty. Additionally the bike 'shop' was located in the UK, not Asia, so I felt pretty comfortable purchasing the frame through the 'Buy it Now' feature of eBay. The frame arrived damaged, which is how I discovered it was a fake. However, it looks authentic in almost every respect.

To make a long story short, the frame was found to be a counterfeit. Mr. De Rosa himself asked me to send it to his factory to use in his investigation to stop this practice. He offered me a 'real' one in exchange. Now that is really amazing. I help him and he helps me back. That is impressive !

So beware there are FAKE De Rosa's out there.

if you need any more information please contact me at : cycledave@hotmail.com

Not just DeRosa but Merckx and Pinarello as well, probably others. I think what the Italian 'masters' get when they let their design/production go to a country 5000 miles away, unmonitored.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Road-Bicycle-Bike-All-Carbon-Frame-fork-3K-BB30-ENG-/190601170680

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Full-Carbon-Fiber-Bike-Bicycle-50cm-Road-Frame-/350503285242

 

[Benotti69]

name and shame the seller so people can be aware of him/her/it.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

name and shame the seller so people can be aware of him/her/it.

Or

http://pinarellochina.com

 

[Captain Serious]

The dudes on Bike Radar seem to think there's something fishy about this

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=12812306

 

[Benotti69]

The dudes on Bike Radar seem to think there's something fishy about this

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=12812306

the point of my post was 2 fold, 1 the story seemed far fetched and 2 to 'out' cycle dave if he doesn't comeback with some more info.

Trying to get some positive publicity generated about Da Rosa, the stories need to be better than this.

 

[cycledave]

Well I don't think this is a POSITIVE note I am trying to explain. It has been over 8 months and I don't have a bike, counterfeit, nor real. Frankly I am getting worried. here is more info:

Here is the story in short form:

I ordered a De Rosa King 3, through 'Buy it Now' on eBay for about 1900 Canadian dollars. I ordered through a bike 'store' on eBay, based in the UK, as I felt this would be more reputable than another farther off-shore. Additionally, on the advert it mentioned the frame could be registered with De Rosa for warranty, again making me feel secure. When it arrived, the frame was damaged, so I did two things. One is I proceeded to register it with De Rosa in case it was to be repaired at his shop. I also contacted the seller. The seller offered to replace it, but mentioned 'from his supplier in Asia'. That sent up a red flag. Why would it be replaced from Asia, as De Rosa makes all their frames in Europe ? Also, the decals looked a bit crude, as compared to the ones on my existing de Rosa's. I have several De Rosa's so yes I like the marque. I have bought and sold a few upon their retirement, but still have four.

So I contacted De Rosa and started the process that lead to it being determined to be a counterfeit.

I was just going to send it back for a refund, but Cristiano asked that I send the frame to him and he would return the favour by replacing it with a 'real' De Rosa. I was qyuite happy with that situation. I assumed he wanted the frame for evidence against the manufacturer that made it. However, the time limit to get a refund on eBay expired a long time ago and my frame is in Italy.

However, once De Rosa received the frame was the last time I received an email from De Rosa. I have called several times and there always is some delay, but still haven't seen a replacement frame as promised. I talked to him two weeks ago and he said he'd write soon, as the matter was with his lawyers. I assume they still need the frame for evidence, but am getting a little worried as over six months have gone by and I don't have a bike.

So there you have it. A long, yet unresolved story.

And frankly I was to hear from de Rosa a while ago and still haven't. So I am not sure this is all positive.

Anyone else in a similar position ?

 

[cycledave]

Hi I am a bit upset by the posts I have received in response to mine. Firstly, I posted this to warn you that so called REAL frames are not necessarily so. The eBay listing said I could register the frame with de Rosa for warranty, etc, so it all seemed on the up and up and the price wasn't ridiculously low like the $1000 Pinarello's. I was duped. (Carbonframes in the UK...was their eBay name) Secondly, at the time I was happy De Rosa asked me for my frame to help him in his investigation. However, after so many months and excuses, I am now getting concerned that De Rosa is not as up front as he seems as well. He still has not sent me back my original frame, nor produced a new one in return. If you want the email thread between De Rosa and I, I have it, but not sure I will share it until I find out what De Rosa's intentions are, as it contains the actual address and name of the seller, etc. and he says this is with his legal people. After I know, I will share it with anyone who asks.

 

[ElChingon]

Hi I am a bit upset by the posts I have received in response to mine. Firstly, I posted this to warn you that so called REAL frames are not necessarily so. The eBay listing said I could register the frame with de Rosa for warranty, etc, so it all seemed on the up and up and the price wasn't ridiculously low like the $1000 Pinarello's. I was duped. (Carbonframes in the UK...was their eBay name) Secondly, at the time I was happy De Rosa asked me for my frame to help him in his investigation. However, after so many months and excuses, I am now getting concerned that De Rosa is not as up front as he seems as well. He still has not sent me back my original frame, nor produced a new one in return. If you want the email thread between De Rosa and I, I have it, but not sure I will share it until I find out what De Rosa's intentions are, as it contains the actual address and name of the seller, etc. and he says this is with his legal people. After I know, I will share it with anyone who asks.

I think its the fact that its an investigation into something of legal concern that is having them take so long. I would hope De Rosa will eventually reply to you in one way or anther on the matter. Then again, things move a bit slowly in Italy as a common rule so I don't think they have forgotten about you.

 

[oldborn]

Cristiano De Rosa is man with whom you should speak, did you speak with him or with some back door guy?
And what El Klingon said it is Italy dude not Wall Street

 

[cycledave]

Thanks for the comments. I had always been talking directly with Cristiano, but admittedly follow up does not appear to be forthcoming. He has had the frame since March. I was in Florence in June, so I should have taken the trip up to Milan and talked to him face to face, but at the time I was under the impression it was all resolved, as it was when I first posted this thread. I regret that now. Hopefully, I receive the response promised a few weeks ago, as at this point I would even take the fake frame back, as I am having some drop-out issues with my older 'King 3' and was to be riding either it, or a new one at a charity ride this weekend. That won't happen now and I will need to built-up my old De Rosa 'Dual'. I will keep you posted as to any progress.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I purchased a 'De Rosa' King 3 from eBay and it has been a real eye opener.

The advert said it was a 'real' frame and its serial number could be registered for full warranty. Additionally the bike 'shop' was located in the UK, not Asia, so I felt pretty comfortable purchasing the frame through the 'Buy it Now' feature of eBay. The frame arrived damaged, which is how I discovered it was a fake. However, it looks authentic in almost every respect.

To make a long story short, the frame was found to be a counterfeit. Mr. De Rosa himself asked me to send it to his factory to use in his investigation to stop this practice. He offered me a 'rea' one in exchange. Now that is really amazing. I help him and he helps me back. That is impressive !

So beware there are FAKE De Rosa's out there.

if you need any more information please contact me at : cycledave@hotmail.com

Wow! I'm a new fan of Mr. De Rosa.

 

[richwagmn]

Or

http://pinarellochina.com

What the hell? How do they get away with that?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Thanks for the comments. I had always been talking directly with Cristiano, but admittedly follow up does not appear to be forthcoming. He has had the frame since March. I was in Florence in June, so I should have taken the trip up to Milan and talked to him face to face, but at the time I was under the impression it was all resolved, as it was when I first posted this thread. I regret that now. Hopefully, I receive the response promised a few weeks ago, as at this point I would even take the fake frame back, as I am having some drop-out issues with my older 'King 3' and was to be riding either it, or a new one at a charity ride this weekend. That won't happen now and I will need to built-up my old De Rosa 'Dual'. I will keep you posted as to any progress.

You sent the guy your frame in March and you don't have anything in return in December?

WTF? And your initial email sounded as though you were praising DeRosa. This thread is just weird. Did you think they were going to send you a free frame for nothing?

Let me help out. If you get an email from a general in Nigeria offering you money, IT'S A SCAM.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

What the hell? How do they get away with that?

What's to get away with. Nobody outside of China is going to have any legal recourse inside China. Pinarello has none, all they can do is 'fire' the factory that is making their frames now, undoubtedly part of these counterfeit frames.

China has been a center of fakes, counterfeiting(music, movies, clothes, watches, you name it) for decades. Lots of frames coming from China are dups, fakes, some scheme or another. Search ebay for 'carbon bicycle frames' and you will see more than one that looks oddly familiar...to many European company' frames. Then search for bicycle bib shorts or jerseys and find this same sort of thing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-new-BM...al-Fleece-Long-Jersey-bib-Pants-/170744786526

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-hot-Li...hermal-Fleece-Long-Jersey-Pants-/180773057471

Both say Nalini on them..not Nalini.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

What's to get away with. Nobody outside of China is going to have any legal recourse inside China. Pinarello has none, all they can do is 'fire' the factory that is making their frames now, undoubtedly part of these counterfeit frames.

Not that simple. The problem is that several employees of Carbotec and Martec left these respective companies and started their own manufacturing shop (Flybike). The Pinarello molds from Carbotec apparently made the trip as well.

HongFu, DengFu, etc, are just resellers of Flybike products. Pinarello doesn't have much recourse. Carbotec is in Taiwan and Flybike is in China, to complicate matters further.

 

[cycledave]

I was praising De Rosa INITIALLY, but now I am very skeptical. I talk to Cristiano on the phone about every month and it's the same thing. "I will get back to you." My praise has soured. I hope I do receive some encouraging news soon. I will keep you all posted.

 

[richwagmn]

How common are CF counterfeit frames on e-bay? I saw a "new" Eddy Merckxx 56cm going for $750 (shipping from Taiwan). Has to be a fake right?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

How common are CF counterfeit frames on e-bay? I saw a "new" Eddy Merckxx 56cm going for $750 (shipping from Taiwan). Has to be a fake right?

Counterfeit frames are all over ebay. Look at CyclingYong and sellers like that. Tons of fakes all over the place.

Funny, not too many fake Colnagos, Times, Cyfacs, etc. Lugs are much harder to fake.

I have little sympathy for Pinarello. They outsourced their production to Taiwan, yet still put "Made in Italy." I know it's legal, but it's utterly lame.

 

[richwagmn]

Counterfeit frames are all over ebay. Look at CyclingYong and sellers like that. Tons of fakes all over the place.

Funny, not too many fake Colnagos, Times, Cyfacs, etc. Lugs are much harder to fake.

I have little sympathy for Pinarello. They outsourced their production to Taiwan, yet still put "Made in Italy." I know it's legal, but it's utterly lame.

Wow. Didn't know you could do that. I see a made in Taiwan sticker on Treks, Specialized, etc (except for the Madone 6 series, still made in Wisconsin).

Does suck though for those companies that put so much time into building their names and reputations.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Wow. Didn't know you could do that. I see a made in Taiwan sticker on Treks, Specialized, etc (except for the Madone 6 series, still made in Wisconsin).

Does suck though for those companies that put so much time into building their names and reputations.

European law. You can put "Made in Italy" if at least 50% of the value is generated in Italy. Bring cheap Taiwanese frames into Treviso, paint them (or apply cheap stickers that look like paint) and presto! You have a $5700 "Italian" frame for suckers to buy.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Wow. Didn't know you could do that. I see a made in Taiwan sticker on Treks, Specialized, etc (except for the Madone 6 series, still made in Wisconsin).

Does suck though for those companies that put so much time into building their names and reputations.

Italy is one of those countries that has a vague set of laws around their imports/exports. If it's designed and painted in Italy they can affix a "made in Italy" decal to the frame without any trouble. Same thing is going on with the world renowned Italian shoe and clothing makers which all pretty much used to be Italian made. Only way for these companies to make any bit of money is to export the labor, and try and save sometimes centuries of reputation with the "made in Italy" tag.

On the other hand take Switzerland. If it's made there it must say "made in ....., or Swiss made" on the product. That's a law there, a strict one at that.

 

[Notso Swift]

Funny, not too many fake Colnagos, Times, Cyfacs, etc. Lugs are much harder to fake.

Cyfac is actually hand laid tube to tube, but being such a niche brand with loyal/educated customers that DO know better most counterfeiters won't put the effort in

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Cyfac is actually hand laid tube to tube, but being such a niche brand with loyal/educated customers that DO know better most counterfeiters won't put the effort in

Indeed, you are correct. They are different in that regard from Time. My two Times are lugged, though some of the new models seem to be going to a monocoque front triangle.

 

[Notso Swift]

Ditto Look's Monocoque is cheaper if you only have a few moulds
(...and the new bottom range Look 566's just happen to be made in ... yup)