Big Pat, Big Roawrr!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-says-uci-will-appeal-unsatisfactory-contador-ruling

a bit of chest beating and foot stomping from Pat as he bigs himself and the UCI up on what they'll do if they don't like the Spanish Fed's decision on Contador...

Funny this should come out after Landis makes the protected riders comments...

A bit of bravado from Pat and he thinks we'll believe him. Pretty sure nothing will be done by him or the UCI (if) when the verdict is handed down on Contador
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Archibald said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-says-uci-will-appeal-unsatisfactory-contador-ruling

a bit of chest beating and foot stomping from Pat as he bigs himself and the UCI up on what they'll do if they don't like the Spanish Fed's decision on Contador...

Funny this should come out after Landis makes the protected riders comments...

A bit of bravado from Pat and he thinks we'll believe him. Pretty sure nothing will be done by him or the UCI (if) when the verdict is handed down on Contador
No, I think Pat's hanging Alberto out to dry. He had no idea how strong the public outcry would be to shaft AC, and he's becoming the politician we all know he really was. There was a strong coordinated effort to get key "star" riders to tow the contaminated beef banner, but it backfired and lost lift.

I think Pat tried to protect AC, but couldn't. So it's "Hasta la vista, baby!". This latest statement is specifically directed to people like us. He needs to show that he's not a pssy.
 
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I think its quite simple. They believe Contador used a blood transfusion on the rest day and that is how he got the positive but they know they cannot prove the transfusion, even with the plastic detected, because of problems with the newness if the transfusion test but they have the Clenbuterol to fall back on. They are convinced right or wrong Contador cheated and they are going to hang him on the Clenbuterol for the blood transfusion. Ideally they would like to get him convicted on both but given they can only prove one they will take him down for that and get removed on a 2 year ban.
 
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He did say that first he'll consult with WADA, but both organizations will have a lot to explain if they take it to CAS. For instance, both A & B samples were known to be positive at the end of August (finally), so why did the UCI impose a gag order on Contador so he couldn't even tell his parents or future manager. Why did they tell him it was a clear case of contamination, giving him a false sense of security as they kept extending their deadline and amassing 600 pages of scientific documents, and why risk a conflict of interest by telling him which expert to consult for his defense when he asked? What was their intention if the lab hadn't leaked information to a German reporter? Why did they only send ten samples to the Cologne Lab out of all the ones taken at the Tour, and were at least six of the ten Contador's (they had six straight days of Clenbuterol readings - 0, 0, 50, 20, 0, 0). They had an agreement with Lausanne to get results back within 72 hours - how did they allow tests on the winner to take more than a month for results? Is it true that up to 200 Picograms, it's up to the lab if they report it or not? Why did they not make arrangements to store anyone else's samples from the Tour for longer than three months? The AFLD still had samples from the 2000 & 2001 Tours, but the ones from 2010 have been disposed of already? The Cologne Lab had alleged leaks to the German reporter, and the New York Times, and one other publication I don't recall. There was talk of plasticizers even though there isn't an approved test. WADA is aware that Clenbuterol exists in foods and contaminated supplements, but still insist on a two year ban for any amount whatsoever, even way below their testing threshold? In the El Pais article about the recently leaked WADA study, it said that Spanish farmers stop using Clenbuterol twenty days before slaughter so it won't show up in tests at the slaughterhouse. I never trusted that that came from the report, but if it did, it's an admission that Spanish farmers have a protocol for Clenbuterol use.

I figure the Spanish Federation will find Contador innocent, which should let him race while WADA appeals. Both WADA and the UCI are on power trips, so I wouldn't mind watching the sideshow. But I'd love to never have to read a quote from McQuaid ever again.
 
The Other Clen Bust?

A Radio Shack rider **swiftly** departs the Pro Peloton for a Clen positive and we're about 5 months into a positive that wasn't supposed to be published in the first place?

It's a rant on my part, not a criticism of the individuals posting comments on this topic. I just don't get this kind of human behavior.
 
BotanyBay said:
No, I think Pat's hanging Alberto out to dry. He had no idea how strong the public outcry would be to shaft AC, and he's becoming the politician we all know he really was. There was a strong coordinated effort to get key "star" riders to tow the contaminated beef banner, but it backfired and lost lift.

I think Pat tried to protect AC, but couldn't. So it's "Hasta la vista, baby!". This latest statement is specifically directed to people like us. He needs to show that he's not a pssy.
I agree 100%. McQuaid didn't protect Contador because he's his buddy, he protected him because he wanted to avoid a scandal which would damage his business. Once the case went public and his first attempts to keep it under control failed, McQuaid was ready to call it a day and give up on Contador. The damage to his business has already been done, and he probably thinks that trying to save Contador, with the opposition of WADA, would only increase that damage.

McQuaid has absolutely no qualms about sacrificing anyone for his own good. He'll throw Armstrong under the bus eventually.
 
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hrotha said:
I agree 100%. McQuaid didn't protect Contador because he's his buddy, he protected him because he wanted to avoid a scandal which would damage his business. Once the case went public and his first attempts to keep it under control failed, McQuaid was ready to call it a day and give up on Contador. The damage to his business has already been done, and he probably thinks that trying to save Contador, with the opposition of WADA, would only increase that damage.

McQuaid has absolutely no qualms about sacrificing anyone for his own good. He'll throw Armstrong under the bus eventually.
While the stated mission of UCI is to be a governing body, clearly they see themselves as an organization more like FIFA, the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc. McQuaid is protecting a business (in his eyes). And yes, when the time comes, he'll throw Lance under the bus too.
 
Archibald said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-says-uci-will-appeal-unsatisfactory-contador-ruling

a bit of chest beating and foot stomping from Pat as he bigs himself and the UCI up on what they'll do if they don't like the Spanish Fed's decision on Contador...

Funny this should come out after Landis makes the protected riders comments...

A bit of bravado from Pat and he thinks we'll believe him. Pretty sure nothing will be done by him or the UCI (if) when the verdict is handed down on Contador
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SK6gbhuEXQ
 
Archibald said:
...

Funny this should come out after Landis makes the protected riders comments...
Exactly!

Where is that 'Who has the power' thread? Landis apparently is the one wearing the pants right now.

He has received tremendous criticism from me in the past, but give him credit where it is due.

This is what Lance DOES NOT UNDERSTAND. He could have skated free after the Ressiot article by simply saying, 'yes I did and I apologize. Doping is a cancer to the sport, and I am against cancer. I had to cut that out just like I had to have surgery'. But the obvous escaped him. (BTW Lance & Fabiani, this door is not completely shut yet...)

The guy had a path to heroism as wide as the Champs Elysees just waiting for him.

BTW - Good on McQuaid for the immaculate political turnaround. I guess he never had sex with that woman.

Dave.
 
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BotanyBay said:
While the stated mission of UCI is to be a governing body, clearly they see themselves as an organization more like FIFA, the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc. McQuaid is protecting a business (in his eyes). And yes, when the time comes, he'll throw Lance under the bus too.
Sorry to be an "American" here, but to have the UCI running all of cycling makes about as much sense as the NFL (professional football) running the NCAA (collegiate football...amateur). The NCAA feeds professional football, but the two organizations have no real tie to one another.

We need pro cycling to be divested of it's other interests in the sport. And you know what? If the pros want McQuaid & company, let them have him. I'd rather focus on saving what's left of the sport on the amateur side.
 
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D-Queued said:
Exactly!

Where is that 'Who has the power' thread? Landis apparently is the one wearing the pants right now.

He has received tremendous criticism from me in the past, but give him credit where it is due.

This is what Lance DOES NOT UNDERSTAND. He could have skated free after the Ressiot article by simply saying, 'yes I did and I apologize. Doping is a cancer to the sport, and I am against cancer. I had to cut that out just like I had to have surgery'. But the obvous escaped him. (BTW Lance & Fabiani, this door is not completely shut yet...)

The guy had a path to heroism as wide as the Champs Elysees just waiting for him.

BTW - Good on McQuaid for the immaculate political turnaround. I guess he never had sex with that woman.

Dave.
I've wondered if the best outcome would be Lance blowing the whistle on VerDRUGgen's negligence, or worse. But if that were possible, without Hein having even more dirt on LA, it should have happened by now.

I know, Hein and LA will drop the bombshell; it was all Richard Pound setting up straw men!
 
BotanyBay said:
Sorry to be an "American" here, but to have the UCI running all of cycling makes about as much sense as the NFL (professional football) running the NCAA (collegiate football...amateur). The NCAA feeds professional football, but the two organizations have no real tie to one another.

We need pro cycling to be divested of it's other interests in the sport. And you know what? If the pros want McQuaid & company, let them have him. I'd rather focus on saving what's left of the sport on the amateur side.
Two things:

1. You will find strident critics of the NCAA football/basketball program that claim they are essentially professional athletes anyway. "College" is an artifice. The athletes compete in nationally televised events worth millions to the schools and NCAA. It is sports entertainment just like the Pro's. I generally agree with this.

2. I don't think letting the sport bifurcate helps. Look at body building. The chemistry fuels the spectacle. Meanwhile, 'natural' body building is a side-show.

The UCI wanting to do it all is nothing special. It's a nice super-national monopoly if Pat, Hein, Weisel, ?, can pull it off.

I can get super-wonky on the topic of federations, so I'll restrain myself. PM me if you want to get into it.
 
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mtb Dad said:
I've wondered if the best outcome would be Lance blowing the whistle on VerDRUGgen's negligence, or worse. But if that were possible, without Hein having even more dirt on LA, it should have happened by now.

I know, Hein and LA will drop the bombshell; it was all Richard Pound setting up straw men!
"Yo Lance, it's Hein. Hey, I'm thinking about buying a new fishing boat. Meet me at the dock and we'll take it for a spin. Johan's gonna meet us down there"

 
Apr 13, 2010
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This is perfect Pat quote material - nobody can say something and nothing the way Pat can:

"It must quite clearly be a fair result,” McQuaid said. “I can't say any more.”

Well, that goes without saying, doesn't it? That's the whole point of a system and procedures, isn't it?

This guy is better than Homer Simpson...
 
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JPM London said:
This is perfect Pat quote material - nobody can say something and nothing the way Pat can:

"It must quite clearly be a fair result,” McQuaid said. “I can't say any more.”

Well, that goes without saying, doesn't it? That's the whole point of a system and procedures, isn't it?

This guy is better than Homer Simpson...
Sorry, had to quote myself... just made myself laugh getting images of Homer being Pat sitting at his security desk, not knowing which buttons to push when the doping alarms go off...
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Does anyone know (or care) what actually has been done with the accusations of corrupt WADA officials, explicitly expressed in the 2007 Blut und Spielen documentary? Have these been taken seriously? Have WADA staffmembers been fired?

For the record: in Blut und Spielen, an insider explains how WADA officials (or at least staff members of WADA accredited testing labs) commonly falsified urine samples in return for good money.

I ask, because much here is about the corruptness of the UCI, while WADA is tacitly considered to be an objective, non-corrupt anti-doping body.
 
sniper said:
Does anyone know (or care) what actually has been done with the accusations of corrupt WADA officials, explicitly expressed in the 2007 Blut und Spielen documentary? Have these been taken seriously? Have WADA staffmembers been fired?

For the record: in Blut und Spielen, an insider explains how WADA officials falsified urine samples in return for good money.
I ask, because much here is about the corruptness of the UCI, while WADA is rather uncritically considered to be an objective, non-corrupt anti-doping body.
Sounds like fodder for a new thread. (If there isn't one already.)

I'd like to hear more about this, like which riders/samples were allegedly targeted, and who would pay for it. I'm really having a dificult time imagining anyone paying to produce a false positive.

EDIT: Oops, must have misread your post. Or maybe it was edited before I clicked reply (which, I think it was--though I don't know if the original bolded part read any differently.) Whatever the case, falsified samples don't mean false positives, but probably mean false negatives. My bad.
 
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sniper said:
Does anyone know (or care) what actually has been done with the accusations of corrupt WADA officials, explicitly expressed in the 2007 Blut und Spielen documentary? Have these been taken seriously? Have WADA staffmembers been fired?

For the record: in Blut und Spielen, an insider explains how WADA officials (or at least staff members of WADA accredited testing labs) commonly falsified urine samples in return for good money.

I ask, because much here is about the corruptness of the UCI, while WADA is tacitly considered to be an objective, non-corrupt anti-doping body.
Sorry, I've just never heard of such accusations before. I'd actually like to hear more. Has anyone ever published an article to this effect?

We can go on and on about corrupt riders, DS', UCI officials, etc. But until we can see a connection to WADA (or the labs), a true corruption can't really exist. Like Pat M said yesterday, WADA gets the same report the UCI does. Clearly, some riders have been getting suspensions.

I'm interested in seeing what's going on at WADA that allowed AC's positive test to go unannounced for over 2 months. We already can imagine how it could happen at UCI. Why wasn't someone at WADA forcing Pat's hand a month earlier? Perhaps you gotta give the guy a month to get a suitcase full of Euros?
 
sniper said:
Does anyone know (or care) what actually has been done with the accusations of corrupt WADA officials, explicitly expressed in the 2007 Blut und Spielen documentary? Have these been taken seriously? Have WADA staff members been fired?
Is this documentary available for us English speakers anywhere?
 
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mr. tibbs said:
falsified samples don't mean false positives, but probably mean false negatives
affirmative..

In Blut und Spielen, an Austrian dope dealer working for triathletes, athletes, and cyclists, explains how he would pay WADA officials while giving them clean urine samples of the athletes he was working for. The WADA officials would then substitute the samples taken after competition for the clean samples.
 
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Berzin said:
Is this documentary available for us English speakers anywhere?
I'm slightly embarrased to say: I don't know.
and I'm sad to say: I don't believe there is.

But perhaps somebody can help me out here? The documentary is really really good. And lots of cycling, LA, Fuentes, and more. Jörg Jaksche, Manzano and the Andreus revealing salient insider stuff in front of the camera.
 

Dr. Maserati

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sniper said:
affirmative..

In Blut und Spielen, an Austrian dope dealer working for triathletes, athletes, and cyclists, explains how he would pay WADA officials while giving them clean urine samples of the athletes he was working for. The WADA officials would then substitute the samples taken after competition for the clean samples.
Careful there - they are not "WADA officals", they are employees of a lab that has been accredited by WADA to do testing.

I am assuming you are on about Kohls manager Matschiner?
Matschiner, who has already admitted to performing irregular blood transfusions for Kohl, claimed in a recent interview with German television ARD that he was able to corrupt employees at several WADA-accredited laboratories based in central Europe.
Story linked here.
 

Dr. Maserati

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BotanyBay said:
No, I think Pat's hanging Alberto out to dry. He had no idea how strong the public outcry would be to shaft AC, and he's becoming the politician we all know he really was. There was a strong coordinated effort to get key "star" riders to tow the contaminated beef banner, but it backfired and lost lift.

I think Pat tried to protect AC, but couldn't. So it's "Hasta la vista, baby!". This latest statement is specifically directed to people like us. He needs to show that he's not a pssy.
Completely agree.

The initial delay in releasing info on ACs positive was in hope that a way out could be found without ever having to make the positive public.

The UCI want to avoid going to CAS at all costs - as this will highlight their Results Management process of the AC case, that release would not reflect well on the UCI.

The UCI are trying to keep both sides from going to CAS but it looks inevitable unless AC falls on his sword and takes (IMO) a 1 year sanction, but does anyone believe the RFEC will do that.
This will drag out longer than the Tourmalet.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
Careful there - they are not "WADA officals", they are employees of a lab that has been accredited by WADA to do testing.

I am assuming you are on about Kohls manager Matschiner?
Story linked here.
True, important nuance.
Thanks for the link. sweet stuff.

I don't remember now the name of the Austrian manager who spoke about corrupt WADA accredited doping lab employers in Blut und Spiele (and really seemed to know what he was talking about). In any case, the guy had done some jailtime, I suppose in 2005 or 2006. The documentary is from 2007.
Seems related to the Kohl-story, though that is from 2009.
In Blut und Spielen, the guy also speaks of payments up to 500 euro's.

p.s. Apologies, for this posting is probably slightly out of place here. would indeed be something for a different thread. may get to that later.
 

Dr. Maserati

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sniper said:
True, important nuance.
Thanks for the link. sweet stuff.

I don't remember now the name of the Austrian manager who spoke about corrupt WADA accredited doping lab employers in Blut und Spiele (and really seemed to know what he was talking about). In any case, the guy had done some jailtime, I suppose in 2005 or 2006. The documentary is from 2007.
Seems related to the Kohl-story, though that is from 2009.
In Blut und Spielen, the guy also speaks of payments up to 500 euro's.

p.s. Apologies, for this posting is probably slightly out of place here. would indeed be something for a different thread. may get to that later.
Except for the 2007 reference it does sound like the Matschiner case - he had paid lab employees €150-€500 to do tests to see check out what doses were detectable and he did some jail time when arrested in early 2009, all of this was done prior to Kohl getting caught in 2008.

I know there were different threads on here when new information became available.
 

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