Bike Lane Etiquette Question

[Murray]

This question is about runners who use on-street bike lanes instead of the sidewalk. It was a topic on a recent "Explainer" episode on Velonews.

I see it a lot here in Montreal, and it drives me nuts. I am not talking about multi-use trails, on-street bike lanes.

The runners argue that the pavement has more "give" than concrete so is better for running. Really, I think that's irrelevant. The bike lane may be the ideal surface for ping-pong, doesn't mean we do it there.

What's the general consensus here?

 

[Martin318is]

I agree, they are putting themselves and others into a position of risk. In a lot of cases they are doing less than half the speed of the cyclists in the lane who are coming up from behind. The bike lane (in most countries I believe) is listed as a road and therefore these runners are actually technically J-walking too.

 

[stephens]

I tend to give right of way by a natural scale like this:

1) animals (and I put human children in this category!)
2) people riding animals
3) people walking/running
4) people on exclusively human-powered contraptions (bikes, skateboards, etc)
5) people in/on non-human powered vehicles (from e-bikes to rocketships)

I do this regardless of what any signs or lines on the road may say. I believe animals should be allowed to go wherever they want, pedestrians too and that when we put ourselves in/on a machine, we have to defer to that more natural human movement.

 

[Murray]

I believe animals should be allowed to go wherever they want, pedestrians too and that when we put ourselves in/on a machine, we have to defer to that more natural human movement.

Agree about the animals. They don't really need to obey our rules. Pedestrians should stay on the sidewalks provided for them.

 

[fatandfast]

They should not run on the sidewalk, or rollerblade,or ride a bike,or skateboard. Yell out "on your left"(or right) gas past them. People in cars are the enemy runner are just pests that need to be tolerated.

 

[Rydberg]

Agree about the animals. They don't really need to obey our rules. Pedestrians should stay on the sidewalks provided for them.

This is the same flawed reasoning that motorists use about cyclists. "Cyclists should stay off the road". Just ride around them.

 

[Murray]

This is the same flawed reasoning that motorists use about cyclists. "Cyclists should stay off the road". Just ride around them.

It's not the same at all. In most places bikes are recognized under traffic laws as vehicles while pedestrians and runners are not vehicles.

 

[Rupert]

Runners, etc vs Cyclists

This question is about runners who use on-street bike lanes instead of the sidewalk. It was a topic on a recent "Explainer" episode on Velonews.

I see it a lot here in Montreal, and it drives me nuts. I am not talking about multi-use trails, on-street bike lanes.

The runners argue that the pavement has more "give" than concrete so is better for running. Really, I think that's irrelevant. The bike lane may be the ideal surface for ping-pong, doesn't mean we do it there.

What's the general consensus here?

I am a mainly cyclist and occasional runner. I virtually quit running many years ago due to repeated injuries, and just started running again on a limited basis (1-2x per week). I prefer running on asphalt to concrete, so I avoid sidewalks as much as possible. If I am on my bike and there is a runner in the bike lane (painted lane on a road) I give them as much room as possible - if there are no cars overtaking me I give them the whole bike lane. I find that most runners yield also, even when I have given them the lane. If I am running in the bike lane/shoulder and there are bikes coming, I get back on the sidewalk / dirt long enough for the bike to get past me. Using a mirror on the bike and running against traffic facilitates all this.

I was recently running on bike /multi-use paths (dedicated trails with no cars)in Dallas, and was surprised by how many cyclists passed me from behind (me running "with" traffic) without saying a word. Many were in "hammer" mode and didn't give me much clearance. When I'm on my bike I try to warn people when I'm passing, unless my sense (observing them) is that they're the type who are clueless and move left when I say "on your left." Often Ipod-deaf people and clusters of people chatting are likely to make a wrong move if you warn them, so it's a difficult judgement call sometimes... But the Dallas cyclists were, I though, very discourteous in consistently dusting me off without saying a word. I definitely think that "hammering" on multi-use paths is inappropriate, as is pointed out in the Velo News discussions. I think the analogy between cyclists on the multi-use path and cars on the road is very valid. Cyclists need to be as courteous toward runners, strollers, and little kids / families on bikes as they want cars to be toward them (the cyclists) on roads.

 

[Rupert]

Agree with Rydberg

.... Pedestrians should stay on the sidewalks provided for them.

This is the same flawed reasoning that motorists use about cyclists. "Cyclists should stay off the road". Just ride around them.

Agree with Rydberg on this. Try to treat runners as you'd like to be treated by cars. They have reasons for being on the bike path, just like you have reasons for being on the road. Be Nice. Maybe they'll reciprocate.

 

[SteveMedcroft]

I agree with the tolerant approach in some of the responses above. We get quite a few runners in the bike lanes here - especially on the weekends.

I can see why a runner would want to use the bike lane so I have no problem with it. Just go around or call out if you're coming from behind.

The difference in my neighborhood over some of the other experiences listed above is that our runners typically run in the opposite direction of traffic. They see us coming, we see them coming. The only time it's unsafe for a runner to force a bike to move out of the bike lane to pass is if there is a car also coming and with a look over my shoulder, most will yield the bike lane and step up onto the sidewalk if I seem concerned about moving out into the traffic lane.

Courtesy is usually met with courtesy.

 

[Rupert]

Courtesy

Courtesy is usually met with courtesy.

What a concept. Kind of Karma thing.
(from Rupert in Tucson, BTW)

 

[icefire]

As a former marathon runner I can state that running on asphalt is softer than running on concrete. I know this may sound ridiculous to many, but any serious runner constrained to run in urban areas can confirm that there is a difference.

If the asphalt cross-section is not levelled out (e.g. to drive rain water to the sides), it is advised not to run always on the same side of the road/street to prevent hip injuries.

Cobblestones are the worst surface for running, no matter how polished and levelled out they are.

Of course, when I'm running I'm aware of the potential consequences of my choices to me and to others and I try to be cautious going up to the sidewalk if needed. And when I'm riding my bike, I understand runners and try to be cautious as well.

 

[grumpyphil]

Runners in bike lanes

Aside from the fact that if a bike lane is marked as such and not as a mixed use path (in most countries) runners have no legal right of use, the real problem is that runners and cyclists have different event horizons and really should be separated because of that fact. If you have ever been in say, Prospect Park, Brooklyn and watched in horror as a runner suddenly makes a 90 degree turn out of their path right into you as you are passing in YOUR lane, you know what I mean. Add to that the preponderance of runners with wires stuck in their ears and you have the makings for real disaster. I have the broken bones to prove it. To be fair, I stay as far away from cyclist with those things stuck in their heads as I do runners. After all, if someone doesn't care about their own safety, why would they care about mine.
<getting off soapbox>

 

[icefire]

... Add to that the preponderance of runners with wires stuck in their ears and you have the makings for real disaster. I have the broken bones to prove it. To be fair, I stay as far away from cyclist with those things stuck in their heads as I do runners. After all, if someone doesn't care about their own safety, why would they care about mine.
<getting off soapbox>

If you ever find a runner or cyclist wearing 'those things' in their ears, you should have the right to drive over them. With a steamroller, if possible

 

[Rupert]

Those things

If you ever find a runner or cyclist wearing 'those things' in their ears, you should have the right to drive over them. With a steamroller, if possible

Don't run them over - give them extra room.... It is very tempting to dust them off but not safe, or nice. But it does crack me up every time one of them jumps in startled surprise as I pass them, after I've warned them 3 times already... Doing the final "on your left" or "hello" right as you pass them usually has the desired effect. I call it "IPod induced deafness."

 

[icefire]

Don't run them over - give them extra room.... It is very tempting to dust them off but not safe, or nice. But it does crack me up every time one of them jumps in startled surprise as I pass them, after I've warned them 3 times already... Doing the final "on your left" or "hello" right as you pass them usually has the desired effect. I call it "IPod induced deafness."

Of course, I was joking. It's just a sign of how little these people care about was goes around them. The only thing they should listen to is their body. But even 7-time winners of TdF tweet about the music they play in their iPod during their rides.

 

[Rupert]

The voices

Of course, I was joking. It's just a sign of how little these people care about was goes around them. The only thing they should listen to is their body. But even 7-time winners of TdF tweet about the music they play in their iPod during their rides.

I'd rather listen to the voices in my head that say strange things..... Seriously I enjoy not having constant "input" and consider the hours on the bike (sometimes very many) top be a form of meditation, when I can let my mind wander aimlessly... Escept when I get a really awful tune stuck in there... I consider it both a safety issue and an esthetic choice to forego the tunes...

 

[icefire]

I'd rather listen to the voices in my head that say strange things..... Seriously I enjoy not having constant "input" and consider the hours on the bike (sometimes very many) top be a form of meditation, when I can let my mind wander aimlessly... Escept when I get a really awful tune stuck in there... I consider it both a safety issue and an esthetic choice to forego the tunes...

Agreed. It's a safety issue. I'm just recreational about running/cycling and I don't use heart rate monitor, so I listen to my body.

 

[BeachBum]

I was recently running on bike /multi-use paths ... and was surprised by how many cyclists passed me from behind (me running "with" traffic) without saying a word. Many were in "hammer" mode and didn't give me much clearance. When I'm on my bike I try to warn people when I'm passing, unless my sense (observing them) is that they're the type who are clueless and move left when I say "on your left."

I rarely say 'on your left' to runners, or even less serious recreational (ie, helmetless) bikers for exactly that reason (fear of them moving left on hearing my warning). I give them as much space as possible and try to slow down a bit myself.

 

[hillytn]

Courtesy is usually met with courtesy.

indeed. give respect and you'll get it back ten-fold.

 

[Anonymous]

I think the cyclist should carefully go around the runner

just like the car should carefully go around the cyclist

just like the fast car should carefully go around the slow car

and just like the runner should carefully go around the slow runner/walker on any type of lane/pathway

The runner cyclist debate is so similar to the cyclist motor vehicle debate it's incredible and interesting to see cyclists get annoyed at runners travelling at half their speed, just like car-drivers get annoyed at cyclists travelling at half the car's speed.

If we expect courtesy from drivers, then runner's should also expect courtesy from us..

 

[Boeing]

Runners running into traffic are dangerous and most of the time it is "likes to fight guy" who isn't going to budge running.

I think that the bike has the right of way if there is a sidewalk accessible to the person on foot and they choose to run in the road. But they have rights when there is not sidewalk

the letter on Velo was from some idiot that thinks it is ok to train with a power meter on a bike PATH. That guy killed his own argument in his first sentence

we just have to accept the fact that we are between a rock and a hardplace and should err on the side of caution every time.

 

[derailleur]

I think that the bike has the right of way if there is a sidewalk accessible to the person on foot and they choose to run in the road. But they have rights when there is no sidewalk.

Around here the law says bicycle lanes are for exclusive use of bicycles, and gives some exceptions, none of which allows pedestrians to use them (unless local law overrides state law to do so).

When there is no sidewalk on either side of the street, a pedestrian is to travel as far left as possible (facing traffic), but not in the bike lane, since the bike lane law permits only bikes in the bike lane.

So runners should be facing the traffic in a traffic lane or on the sidewalk, not in the bike lane. (Case law may vary. The statue is pretty unambiguous, but the courts may subordinate the bike-lane rules to the pedestrians-keep-left rule anyway.)

In my experience when runners see anyone coming they exit the lane. And most runners do run facing traffic if they're running on the road surface. However, if the traffic is light (and it usually is where runners and cyclists mix) I will go out into the road well before they have to choose.

When I'm overtaking anyone on my bike I give 5 feet or more if possible, and don't shout; the shout is no less startling than being passed at a safe distance and doesn't improve safety any. I still look over and say "good morning," though. If I have to pass closer than that I will give an "on your left", or if I've been following (another bike) for a bit I will also, but that's so they know the composition of their pack is changing.

 

[Anonymous]

they are cycle lanes, not running lanes.... if they wanna run go run on a running track...

we have more fun with pedestrians here than anything, the centre of the city is one large road area that is buses and bicylces only, so pedestrains cross without looking, walk in the road, congregate having chats...

is it morally wrong to come close enough to brush there arm, or to know they are about to step out but choose to save the braking until you are really close and back break only so the skid scares the crap out of them.. is it wrong to gang up with other cyclists and do the left and right double arm brush at speed