Black or white - who is guilty?

[The Executioner]

A black man
breaks track & field world most respected records. 2 events. 100m. 200m. No doping accusations. No failed tests. No credible sources. Just pure speed and incredible times. Jamaican born. Public court of opinion = guilty.

A white man
breaks multiple world records in swimming. Wins 8 Olympic gold medals in one Olympics. 8 events. Multiple world records. No doping accusations. No failed tests. No credible sources. Just an incredible times and superhuman endurance. Hailed as the greatest swimmer ever. Likes to smoke marijuana & occasionally drive while intoxicated. USA born. Public court of opinion = innocent.

A white man
wins 7 Tours de France. Multiple doping accustions. Excuses for documented violations of drug testing protocols. Failed EPO test. Testimonies from former teammates, team employees, trainers, team physicians. USA born. Public court of opinion = innocent.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

I think you'd be better leaving the skin colour of any athlete out of it and just stick to the following rule.

Bolts, Phelps, Armstrong et al:

*Naive, casual fans: probably doping, but they all are anyway so who cares

*Fanboys and uninformed obsessives: "My hero is clean!" (he trains hard, has a heart the size of a moose's etc)

* Informed rational opinion: History, evidence and knowledhe have shown us that there are many reasons to be sceptical regarding superhuman performances in sports that are proven to be rife with doping.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I think you'd be better leaving the skin colour of any athlete out of it and just stick to the following rule.

Bolts, Phelps, Armstrong et al:

*Naive, casual fans: probably doping, but they all are anyway so who cares

*Fanboys and uninformed obsessives: "My hero is clean!" (he trains hard, has a heart the size of a moose's etc)

* Informed rational opinion: History, evidence and knowledhe have shown us that there are many reasons to be sceptical regarding superhuman performances in sports that are proven to be rife with doping.

You forgot the 2 meter legs of Bolt

Not sceptical, but cynical, coz they are all doped up (at the top of the world class)

 

[TRDean]

A black man
breaks track & field world most respected records. 2 events. 100m. 200m. No doping accusations. No failed tests. No credible sources. Just pure speed and incredible times. Jamaican born. Public court of opinion = guilty.

A white man
breaks multiple world records in swimming. Wins 8 Olympic gold medals in one Olympics. 8 events. Multiple world records. No doping accusations. No failed tests. No credible sources. Just an incredible times and superhuman endurance. Hailed as the greatest swimmer ever. Likes to smoke marijuana & occasionally drive while intoxicated. USA born. Public court of opinion = innocent.

A white man
wins 7 Tours de France. Multiple doping accustions. Excuses for documented violations of drug testing protocols. Failed EPO test. Testimonies from former teammates, team employees, trainers, team physicians. USA born. Public court of opinion = innocent.

Can I just say you are a moron!! Take this crap somewhere else!!

 

[Anonymous]

A black man
breaks track & field world most respected records. 2 events. 100m. 200m. No doping accusations. No failed tests. No credible sources. Just pure speed and incredible times. Jamaican born. Public court of opinion = guilty.

A white man
breaks multiple world records in swimming. Wins 8 Olympic gold medals in one Olympics. 8 events. Multiple world records. No doping accusations. No failed tests. No credible sources. Just an incredible times and superhuman endurance. Hailed as the greatest swimmer ever. Likes to smoke marijuana & occasionally drive while intoxicated. USA born. Public court of opinion = innocent.

A white man
wins 7 Tours de France. Multiple doping accustions. Excuses for documented violations of drug testing protocols. Failed EPO test. Testimonies from former teammates, team employees, trainers, team physicians. USA born. Public court of opinion = innocent.

Ok, that is just stupid.

 

[petethedrummer]

What is the sample size of this poll you carried out?

 

[pmcg76]

Could also point out that one is Jamaican and the other two are American, just as feasible but equally silly.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

also round here most people don't think too suspiciously of Bolt or Phelps but only idiots think Lance is clean.

 

[blackcat]

how about

Barry Bonds versus Armstrong?

 

[Anonymous]

I think all three are doping freaks.

EDIT: Oops, all four, just saw the Barry Bonds post.

 

[Steel4Ever]

I think all three are doping freaks.

I think pretty much everyone living in a 1st or 2nd World country dopes.

Fast food, coffee, diet pills, pain killers, television, video games, credit cards, internet, cigarettes, booze, automobiles, xtreme this-and-that...

They all juice our brains and bodies above and beyond that of any ordinary dirt farmer in E. Europe or C. Africa. Does it give us an edge or just f*ck us up so we die of cancer of stress-induced heart disease?

Long live the Freakshow!

 

[Cobber]

A black man
breaks track & field world most respected records. 2 events. 100m. 200m. No doping accusations. No failed tests. No credible sources. Just pure speed and incredible times. Jamaican born. Public court of opinion = guilty.

A white man
breaks multiple world records in swimming. Wins 8 Olympic gold medals in one Olympics. 8 events. Multiple world records. No doping accusations. No failed tests. No credible sources. Just an incredible times and superhuman endurance. Hailed as the greatest swimmer ever. Likes to smoke marijuana & occasionally drive while intoxicated. USA born. Public court of opinion = innocent.

A white man
wins 7 Tours de France. Multiple doping accustions. Excuses for documented violations of drug testing protocols. Failed EPO test. Testimonies from former teammates, team employees, trainers, team physicians. USA born. Public court of opinion = innocent.

Well... if this is true and it does come down to race, then all cyclists are clean!

 

[Cobber]

I think pretty much everyone living in a 1st or 2nd World country dopes.

Fast food, coffee, diet pills, pain killers, television, video games, credit cards, internet, cigarettes, booze, automobiles, xtreme this-and-that...

They all juice our brains and bodies above and beyond that of any ordinary dirt farmer in E. Europe or C. Africa. Does it give us an edge or just f*ck us up so we die of cancer of stress-induced heart disease?

Long live the Freakshow!

?????????????????????????????????/

 

[Dude17]

A black man
breaks track & field world most respected records. 2 events. 100m. 200m. No doping accusations. No failed tests. No credible sources. Just pure speed and incredible times. Jamaican born. Public court of opinion = guilty.

A white man
breaks multiple world records in swimming. Wins 8 Olympic gold medals in one Olympics. 8 events. Multiple world records. No doping accusations. No failed tests. No credible sources. Just an incredible times and superhuman endurance. Hailed as the greatest swimmer ever. Likes to smoke marijuana & occasionally drive while intoxicated. USA born. Public court of opinion = innocent.

A white man
wins 7 Tours de France. Multiple doping accustions. Excuses for documented violations of drug testing protocols. Failed EPO test. Testimonies from former teammates, team employees, trainers, team physicians. USA born. Public court of opinion = innocent.

What about Mark McGuire? Roger Clemens? White guys who most people think doped.

Anyone questioning Bolt's performances are going on the history of Track and Field and its known problems with doping. I think it is more that than the fact that he's black.

So, basically, let's keep race out of this.

 

[Steel4Ever]

"Originally Posted by Steel4Ever
I think pretty much everyone living in a 1st or 2nd World country dopes.

Fast food, coffee, diet pills, pain killers, television, video games, credit cards, internet, cigarettes, booze, automobiles, xtreme this-and-that..."

?????????????????????????????????/

What?

You don't think instant internet porn, or designer television ads, or adrenaline-boosting video games and "Charge It!" shopping sprees, or 100 MPH road rage changes the mental and physical state of the user?

Science would have a very easy time proving this one.

 

[TRDean]

"Originally Posted by Steel4Ever
I think pretty much everyone living in a 1st or 2nd World country dopes.

Fast food, coffee, diet pills, pain killers, television, video games, credit cards, internet, cigarettes, booze, automobiles, xtreme this-and-that..."



What?

You don't think instant internet porn, or designer television ads, or adrenaline-boosting video games and "Charge It!" shopping sprees, or 100 MPH road rage changes the mental and physical state of the user?

Science would have a very easy time proving this one.

I don't dope...but you are a dope! Nuff said.

 

[fatandfast]

Bolt was 6 foot five when he was 15. His talent was ID'd as soon as he walked on the track. He has been near breaking every record since he was 19. Like bicycle racing there are kids 16 and up who are super talents that you may never hear of because pro racing is all that is covered. Bolt did not come out of nowhere and anybody who is a track and field fan saw him coming for years. He is only 23 so you better work those racist fingers hard and long your work is cut out for you. Also that whole race thing is probably going to get really tired as young Africans come into bike racing. US Nat Champion was black. If you watched a black gun raced the Tour of Ireland and held his own. There are 4 development teams in Africa and are in the process of polishing diamonds for the peleton. Put away your rebel flag.

 

[Cobber]

"Originally Posted by Steel4Ever
I think pretty much everyone living in a 1st or 2nd World country dopes.

Fast food, coffee, diet pills, pain killers, television, video games, credit cards, internet, cigarettes, booze, automobiles, xtreme this-and-that..."



What?

You don't think instant internet porn, or designer television ads, or adrenaline-boosting video games and "Charge It!" shopping sprees, or 100 MPH road rage changes the mental and physical state of the user?

Science would have a very easy time proving this one.

As a scientist, I would have to disagree. Science would have an almost impossible task proving that any of these have an affect on anything, especially since many of them have been around in some form or another for thousands of years. And since this thread is about performance-enhancing drugs, the only thing that you named that fits into this category is caffeine. Everything else does not!

 

[krebs303]

Long live the Freakshow!

And may you always be it's Star

 

[Jonathan]

You gotta remember in the case of swimming that much fewer people are involved in the sport, therefore as great as Mark Phelps achievements are, they are not as incredible as sometimes made out. I see no hard reason why he should be doping.

At the same time, I don't see why he would not be doping. There really is no disadvantage to it; even in a sport like cycling, where there is a lot of testing, it is still possible to use doping and not get caught. If it's possible in cycling, I'd say it is possible in any sport.

Athletes go faster because of doping, and there is no disadvantage. So why wouldn't people like Michael Phelps, Sven Kramer or Usain Bolt not use doping?

 

[sgreene]

If all the top pro cyclists are doping, why does anyone on this forum still follow pro cycling? I would have thought you would have given up in disgust long ago.

 

[15kphslower]

I wouldn't be suprised by a doping comtroversy around Bolt at some point during his career, probably to help him recover from an injury.

As for Phelps and swimming - there is lots of advantage in the suit they wear - have the right one and you go super fast.

 

[Jonathan]

If all the top pro cyclists are doping, why does anyone on this forum still follow pro cycling? I would have thought you would have given up in disgust long ago.

That question has been asked and answered more than a few times. Are you genuinely interested in why some doping sceptics follow cycling, or is your question a retorical one, intended to make people stop watching cycling or stop discussing doping?

 

[runninboy]

to the OP
I have followed track & field since the 60s, and I think Bolt is capable of the times without doping. He had tremendous natural ability ran great times with poor technique originally which is now getting better. He had one of the slowest reaction times in the field, however he was first to the 20 meter mark after that he maintianed proportionally the same speed as the rest of the field. And as i pointed out people like Jesse Owens had marks that would still be competitive decades later, so they made huge leaps in performance.
Thommie Smith ran 19.8 at sea level after his 68 Mexico City mark
that would be good enough to medal in most worlds for the next 4 decades
Lee Evans set the world mark of 44.0 before mexico city in 68
that mark would have won the worlds in 2009.
Runners have always set amazing marks without dope and i get sick of them being lumped in with dopers based on level of performance.

 

[Jonathan]

I think in both cases the type of drugs they would use are easier to detect. But it could well be happening, but again we go back to that old argument about how much of a difference it would make if a lot of the top guys were doing it. Phelps and Bolt would still be the best of the bunch.

That is putting a radical twist on the discussion - it seems that either they are all doing it, or none at all! Yet it is impossible to make such broad statements because the fact of the matter is we don't know. It might be something in between. There is a distinct possibility that Bolt and Phelps use more doping, react better to it or have a more effective program, granting them bigger performance enhancement. We wouldn't know if it was true.