Breathing Inspiration

[Trunnions]

... and Expiration.

We've mastered the basics; in, out, in, out... ad inf., but there appears to be great scope for improved breathing techniques in competitive cycling; rapidity, depth, etc.

Chris Boardman sticks his tongue out to open his trachea wider.

Petite Victoria Pendleton roars and snorts her way stentoriously around the Manchester Velodrome like a rutting Stag.

Wiggo deliberately hyperventilates during warm-up for TTs.

Señor Contador wears a nasal sinus clip.

Do you train your abdominal, diaphragm and intercostal muscles as much as your quadriceps muscles?

Have you tried adjusting your breathing rhythm gradually from rapid and shallow to slow and deep?

Do you consciously adjust your breathing pattern to maximise your VO2?

What breathing tips have you got to pass on?

 

[straydog]

... and Expiration.

We've mastered the basics; in, out, in, out... ad inf., but there appears to be great scope for improved breathing techniques in competitive cycling; rapidity, depth, etc.

Chris Boardman sticks his tongue out to open his trachea wider.

Petite Victoria Pendleton roars and snorts her way stentoriously around the Manchester Velodrome like a rutting Stag.

Wiggo deliberately hyperventilates during warm-up for TTs.

Señor Contador wears a nasal sinus clip.

Do you train your abdominal, diaphragm and intercostal muscles as much as your quadriceps muscles?

Have you tried adjusting your breathing rhythm gradually from rapid and shallow to slow and deep?

Do you consciously adjust your breathing pattern to maximise your VO2?

What breathing tips have you got to pass on?

Your intercostal muscles are muscles like any other, and so react to training stimulus. I personally use a powerbreathe. I have also used an hypoxic chamber in training in an effort to seek ways to free up and strengthen my breathing and counteract the effects of asthma.

Nasal strips have definitely helped and diaphragmatic breathing likewise. And on the bike a recent photograph can attest that I let my mouth and tongue relax open, leaving me looking like I am in the first stages of a stroke

Add to that, positioning myself on the bike so that that the rear of my rib cage is as open as possible, without constricting the front, and you could say that I may not look pretty, but I definitely like breathing.

Interesting thread by the way, looking forward to reading responses.

 

[brianf7]

I splattered my nose on a car windscreen 40 years ago so as expected the valves dont work well. I have used the nasal strips with some effects in a TT but Power breath is good . I just have to grab every ounce of air if it be warm or cold with my mouth.
That is OK in warm weather but in winter cold air gets deep down in the gut so I look 15 months pregnant after a TT in cold weather.
My answer to that is dont do it .
Ounce the gut is full of cold air the legs stop working.

 

[David Suro]

The top two ribs are easily suppressed by the clavicals if the position on the bike is not optimal. If the clavicals are placing pressure on the top ribs, more effort is needed from the diaphragm and interscostals to fill the lungs.

Achieving a position that aleviates pressure from the clavicals on the upper portion of the ribcage is easy to do with the help of a pro fitter. The results are worth the investment.

 

[brianf7]

The top two ribs are easily suppressed by the clavicals if the position on the bike is not optimal. If the clavicals are placing pressure on the top ribs, more effort is needed from the diaphragm and interscostals to fill the lungs.

Achieving a position that aleviates pressure from the clavicals on the upper portion of the ribcage is easy to do with the help of a pro fitter. The results are worth the investment.

Ah now you explain how to get the bike setup But errr when I put my head through the police car windscren back in 1960 I also fractured my skull knocked my teeth out ripped my nose off and also fractured the disks at c7 T1 T2 which are now all joined into one big lump of calcium.

Needless to say I looked like a Bulldog and they have similar problem breathing.

Still have some teeth and still riding but I will pay attention to your remarks regarding upper ribs I may be able to do something . Oh I am still winning time trials but rare.
I have seen all the pro fit people over the years but prefer to do it myself because I am the only one who knows where the pain is.

Watch this space .

 

[Archibald]

Ah now you explain how to get the bike setup But errr when I put my head through the police car windscren back in 1960 I also fractured my skull knocked my teeth out ripped my nose off and also fractured the disks at c7 T1 T2 which are now all joined into one big lump of calcium.

Needless to say I looked like a Bulldog and they have similar problem breathing.

Still have some teeth and still riding but I will pay attention to your remarks regarding upper ribs I may be able to do something . Oh I am still winning time trials but rare.
I have seen all the pro fit people over the years but prefer to do it myself because I am the only one who knows where the pain is.

Watch this space .

all comes down to a "if it works for you then use it" approach, doesn't it?
what may work for one doesn't necessarily work for another...
I'm in a similar situation to yourself - nasal passages are f**ked, and I escaped life in a wheelchair by millimetres after some serious spinal injuries (thankfully no fusing).
there are times where I really struggle on the breathing front, but found examples of folks who alter the angle of their head to maximise intake. Also, part of my rehab for my spine included Network Spinal Analysis and Somato Respiratory Integration, which has significantly improved both my posture and breathing...

 

[brianf7]

all comes down to a "if it works for you then use it" approach, doesn't it?
what may work for one doesn't necessarily work for another...
I'm in a similar situation to yourself - nasal passages are f**ked, and I escaped life in a wheelchair by millimetres after some serious spinal injuries (thankfully no fusing).
there are times where I really struggle on the breathing front, but found examples of folks who alter the angle of their head to maximise intake. Also, part of my rehab for my spine included Network Spinal Analysis and Somato Respiratory Integration, which has significantly improved both my posture and breathing...

Every time I fall off I just stay focused and keep going forward back in 1960's we didnt have the medical help that we have today.

I do whatever I can to strenghen the area affected last time I saw a Doctor he told me to go back and see him after i retire from cycling I am 65 now.

 

[Trunnions]

straydog:
Q/Your intercostal muscles are muscles like any other, and so react to training stimulus./Q

Quite, but I was thinking of breathing exercises that target them specifically.

Q/I have also used an hypoxic chamber in training in an effort to seek ways to free up and strengthen my breathing and counteract the effects of asthma./Q

Blimey... Serious stuff! Did it help? Sounds dangerous. Deliberate oxygen depravation of asthmatics.

Ayrton Senna used to hold his breath on the first lap of an F1 Grand Prix claiming it accentuated his reflexes, perception, and acuity.

I know a doctor experimenting with the opposite: Hyperbaric chamber oxygen therapy, for pathological conditions, not fitness training.

Q/Add to that, positioning myself on the bike so that that the rear of my rib cage is as open as possible, without constricting the front, and you could say that I may not look pretty, but I definitely like breathing./Q

Now that's something to check, I may have lowered my bars too much... abdomen may be distorting my ribcage.

David Suro:
Q/The top two ribs are easily suppressed by the clavicles if the position on the bike is not optimal. If the clavicles are placing pressure on the top ribs, more effort is needed from the diaphragm and interscostals to fill the lungs.

Achieving a position that aleviates pressure from the clavicles on the upper portion of the ribcage is easy to do with the help of a pro fitter. The results are worth the investment./Q

Excellent, more to check...

brianf7:
Q/I do whatever I can to strenghen the area affected last time I saw a Doctor he told me to go back and see him after i retire from cycling I am 65 now./Q

And the doctor is probably dead, whilst you're still winning bicycle time-trials.
I have a mate who is your age, I can't keep up with him. In a recent race he had to abandon because he felt heart fibrillation.

"Oh, no problem, you just stop and let it settle down." he said.

He entered another race just two weeks later, and won his age category!
A fearless addict.

 

[Tapeworm]

FWIW for exercise that is above VO2 max, ie: pure aerobic, the rate at which we breathe and the volume generally is not a limiter for performance. Its not the lack of "lung power", its more down at a cellular level.

 

[Trunnions]

Q/FWIW for exercise that is above VO2 max, ie: pure aerobic, the rate at which we breathe and the volume generally is not a limiter for performance. Its not the lack of "lung power", its more down at a cellular level./Q

With respect, I doubt that is true.

And I'd need a lot of facts to convince me. Since (almost) every other organ in our bodies can be developed, improved, and maximised, with extra activity, I cannot imagine our breathing mechanisms being exempt.

I'm sure both breathing AND respiration can be improved by training and development.

 

[Tapeworm]

With respect, I doubt that is true.....
I'm sure both breathing AND respiration can be improved by training and development...

With respect, do your research as to how the body works for aerobic exercise.


The point being that being able to inhale and exhale more air will not in itself allow you to perform at a higher rate. Only if all the inhaled oxygen were being used would the actual effectiveness of the lungs be called into action under those circumstances (ie: inducing oxygen debt).

Transportation and utilisation of oxygen at a cellular level is a limiter amongst other things for aerobic performance.

Unless you are very, very untrained respiratory rate and volume is not an issue. Yes it can be trained. You can use "power breathe" or whatever gadget you want. But you won't be faster because of it.

The lungs, like the heart will develop with stimulus, ie: exercise. The heart can beat much higher than your "max" experienced during exercise. It doesn't, because there is no need. Same with the lungs, you can simply increase your respiratory rate. A rider flakes out at the top of the climb NOT because there was not enough oxygen being drawn into the lungs.

So training the lungs in isolation to be "more powerful" is a waste of time. Just let them scale with all the other systems when exposed to a sh*te load of training.

 

[brianf7]

FWIW for exercise that is above VO2 max, ie: pure aerobic, the rate at which we breathe and the volume generally is not a limiter for performance. Its not the lack of "lung power", its more down at a cellular level.

Vo2 max is just that max aerobic what you mean is anerobic how much more power you can get without oxygen on pure glucose and adrenalin.

My max HR is 172 in a lab but the business end of a Crit it is up to 180 that dosnt mean it is pumping faster it means its not filling fast enough only slightly but left ventricle is not full on the power pump.
Answer is to sit on - hang on and try to slow it down or you blow up. adrenalin generaly closes the arteries slightly so blood flow is marginaly restricted.
answer dont look at the Heart monitor during a race and please turn off the alarms.

 

[Tapeworm]

Vo2 max is just that max aerobic what you mean is anerobic how much more power you can get without oxygen on pure glucose and adrenalin.

Ah no, I don't mean anaerobic. By definition (meaning "without oxygen") anaerobic is less reliant on oxygen intake (the other systems of the body still require it, despite the actual process taking place without it).

VO2max is, as you say, the maximal rate of oxygen uptake possible by the body as a whole during exercise. Hence if at this rate you are still expelling unused oxygen then chances are that your lungs are plenty fine the way they are. If improving the muscles involved with breathing at this level won't make any difference at VO2max then it certainly won't at lower levels of exertion.

 

[Trunnions]

Interesting and idiosyncratic opinions from Mr. Tapeworm.

However, readers looking for scientific fact-based evidence, that breathing training +can, and does, significantly improve+ athletic performance in already fit individuals, will be more convinced and edified by these university research papers and reports:

"Effect of High-Intensity Inspiratory Muscle Training (IMT) on Lung Volumes, Diaphragm Thickness, and Exercise Capacity in Subjects Who Are Healthy"

http://ptjournal.apta.org/content/86/3/345.full

Q/The findings of this study suggest that high-intensity IMT results in increased contracted diaphragm thickness and increased lung volumes +and exercise capacity+ in people who are healthy./Q

"Inspiratory muscle training reduces blood lactate concentration during volitional hyperpnoea."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Q/After 6 weeks, increases in [lac(-)](B) during volitional hyperpnoea were unchanged in the control group. Conversely, following IMT the increase in [lac(-)](B) during volitional hyperpnoea was reduced by 17 +/- 37% and 25 +/- 34% following 8 and 10 min, respectively (P < 0.05)./Q

"Respiratory Muscle Training in Healthy Humans: Resolving the Controversy"

http://www.thieme-connect.com/ejournals/abstract/sportsmed/doi/10.1055/s-2004-815827

Q/We conclude that in most well controlled and rigorously designed studies, utilizing appropriate outcome measures, respiratory muscle training +has a positive influence upon exercise performance+./Q

"Inspiratory muscle training (IMT) improves cycling time-trial performance and anaerobic work capacity"

http://www.springerlink.com/content/l9085718p7045216/

Q/In conclusion, these data provide novel evidence that +improvements in constant-power and cycling time-trial performance following IMT in cyclists+ may be explained, in part, by an increase in anaerobic work capacity./Q

"Effect of specific inspiratory muscle warm-up on intense intermittent run to exhaustion"

http://www.springerlink.com/content/9031370152040277/

Q/Such findings suggest that the specific inspiratory muscle warm-up in IMW may entail a reduction in breathlessness, ...and, in turn, improve exercise tolerance./Q

Similar, less technical, accounts in the popular media*arrive at the same conclusions:

"Cardiovascular Endurance: Respiratory Training Can Improve Performance"

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/car...tory-training-can-improve-performance-70.html

"Improve Cycling Performance with Breathing Training"
http://www.ezisports.com.au/Improve-Cycling-Performance-with-Breathing-Training.html

 

[Tapeworm]

A good collection of studies, though one of the reviews mention there have been equal amounts of studies which find no benefit.

Of the studies that do show a statically significant improvement it is seems it is at lower than V02max range and improvements in anaerobic fitness. Which is not entirely surprising, as is the improvements in exhaling pressure in the mouth.

Of course all studies have weaknesses however some of testing protocol are not specific to cycling or utilise cyclists in general. One uses people who exercise a whole 4 hrs per week. If they supplement ANY additional training equal to the period they do the inspiratory muscle training whether this would show the same benefit?

Certainly it would seem that should any benefit occur it is at submaximal efforts shorter than 10mins or so.

Some further reading:-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18974711

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12165887

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12131262

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11422888

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1405573

 

[PortableDave]

Trunnions, I haven't had a chance to go through every study, but the ones I did seem to be on average individuals, not trained athletes. Many of the physiological adaptions the studies talk about occur naturally during periods of sustained aerobic exercise for non trained individuals. The more pertinent question in a training forum is what benefit this specific type of training gives for a trained individual.

A study like this might be more benefitial to look at:

http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Abstract/2000/07000/Specific_inspiratory_muscle_training_in.8.aspx

"Conclusions: It may be concluded that 10 wk of SIMT can increase the inspiratory muscle performance in well-trained athletes. However, this increase was not associated with improvement in aerobic capacity, as determined by V̇O2max, or in arterial O2 desaturation during maximal graded exercise challenge. The significance of such results is uncertain and further studies are needed to elucidate the role of respiratory muscle training in the improvement of aerobic-type exercise capacity."

and

"However, growing evidence indicates that in trained athletes, oxygen delivery to the muscles limits the V̇O2max during heavy exercise (1,33,35). O2 delivery depends on blood flow, arterial O2 saturation, and hemoglobin concentration. "

 

[Trunnions]

PortableDave:
Q/I haven't had a chance to go through every study, but the ones I did seem to be on average individuals, not trained athletes./Q

Try the cycling TT paper linked to in my post, you don't generally find couch-spuds on TT bikes or volunteering for these kinds of research studies.

Q/A study like this might be more benefitial to look at:/Q

Check the date Sir, you'll find that research is almost as old as "de-phlogisticated air", and just as redundant.

Q/The significance of such results is uncertain and further studies are needed to elucidate the role of respiratory muscle training in the improvement of aerobic-type exercise capacity./Q

See the further studies I linked to.

 

[Trunnions]

Tapeworm:
Q/A good collection of studies, though one of the reviews mention there have been equal amounts of studies which find no benefit./Q

They were the ones later found to have used poor methodologies, as noted in some of the other papers I linked to.

Thanks for the links, but 1992 is very old research, see reply to PortableDave.

 

[Tapeworm]

They were the ones later found to have used poor methodologies, as noted in some of the other papers I linked to.

Uh-huh. You'll have to elaborate on that one, how do you know the methodologies are poor merely from the abstract? Methodologies are one thing, relevance is another.

And to be clear, all the studies that show respiratory training to make no difference were done wrong and all the ones that do show that it does were done right? Hmmmm.

Thanks for the links, but 1992 is very old research, see reply to PortableDave.

Only only was 1992, the others all done in the last 10 years.

Here's another (2008) - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18974712

And one more (2000):- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10912887

Oh and another (2001):- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11504589

 

[Boeing]

I am no expert.

I was told years ago when I had a coach etc to exaggerate the exhale at max efforts. Something about pushing out dead air as I think he said

It is a habit ha have to this day but this thread has me thinking about it

good discussion really

In addition the analysis at the time was that I was a "mouth breather" and had to re teach my breathing in through the nose at max effort. Sounds simple enough and it is something I remind myself to this day

The comment about Boardman sticking out his tongue is interesting. Is that inhale or exhale?

 

[Boeing]

With respect, do your research as to how the body works for aerobic exercise.


The point being that being able to inhale and exhale more air will not in itself allow you to perform at a higher rate. Only if all the inhaled oxygen were being used would the actual effectiveness of the lungs be called into action under those circumstances (ie: inducing oxygen debt).

Transportation and utilisation of oxygen at a cellular level is a limiter amongst other things for aerobic performance.

Unless you are very, very untrained respiratory rate and volume is not an issue. Yes it can be trained. You can use "power breathe" or whatever gadget you want. But you won't be faster because of it.

The lungs, like the heart will develop with stimulus, ie: exercise. The heart can beat much higher than your "max" experienced during exercise. It doesn't, because there is no need. Same with the lungs, you can simply increase your respiratory rate. A rider flakes out at the top of the climb NOT because there was not enough oxygen being drawn into the lungs.

So training the lungs in isolation to be "more powerful" is a waste of time. Just let them scale with all the other systems when exposed to a sh*te load of training.

with out the proper documentation with your assertion all I can say is 'if you say so'

but let's not assume that better and quicker recovery is not benefited by breathing and hence one might be able to bring their power longer

 

[Trunnions]

Tapeworm:
Q/Only only was 1992, the others all done in the last 10 years. /Q

Almost accurate; one was 18 years old, the rest were ten and nine years old!

I ride a beloved 18 year old bicycle for fun and nostalgia.

I ride my new bike to stay sharp.

QED

 

[Trunnions]

Boeing:
Q/The comment about Boardman sticking out his tongue is interesting. Is that inhale or exhale?/Q

Both, particularly at the start of his TT runs.

Not sure if it really helps to physically open his upper airways, perhaps he had a Maori doctor advising him.

 

[Trunnions]

Another, slightly unsavoury aspect of peak breathing performance is...

Phlegm.

Have you noticed certain TT riders seem to habitually stream saliva from their mouths during a ride, Tony Martin, springs to mind.

It's involuntary of course, but seems to be the opposite of most riders, myself included. When I'm at maximum, my airways do the opposite, they dry up.

It depends on the weather and temperature too, but a few riders have strings of saliva hanging from their mouths even in temperate climate races.

Your thoughts?

 

[Tapeworm]

Almost accurate; one was 18 years old, the rest were ten and nine years old!

I ride a beloved 18 year old bicycle for fun and nostalgia.

I ride my new bike to stay sharp.

QED

I posted two done in 2008. And the ones you posted were '04, '08, '04, '07 and '06.

What's your point?

And generally just because research is old this does not invalidate it, unless methodologies are proven to be wrong or the conclusions.