Building Wheels, Advice Needed

[cryan5301]

Hi all,

I'm looking to build up a new set of training wheels. Looking at getting HED Belgian C2s w/ White Industry T11 Hubs through wheelbuilder.com.

I get to the question about upgrading to ceramic bearings, and I'm wondering if it's worth it. Part of me thinks if these are training wheels, no need to bother with them, but if someone has experience with them and thinks they are totally awesome let me know. At this point leaning towards not getting them. For race wheels maybe.

Lastly, anyone have any advice on which wheel building site to use? prowheelbuilder vs. wheelbuilder vs. any other?

Thanks

 

[42x16ss]

For hand built wheels, I recommend finding someone good locally unless you have experience maintaining newly built wheels. If you are serious about only using these wheels for training then don't bother with ceramic bearings, the cost and maintenance over standard bearings isn't worth the marginal gain for training.

Also, what factors have you considered regarding the build? What are your local roads like? Do you climb a lot? Do you mash or spin? How heavy are you? If these wheels are going to be ridden hard daily make sure you spoke up or have deep pockets.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Hi all,

I'm looking to build up a new set of training wheels. Looking at getting HED Belgian C2s w/ White Industry T11 Hubs through wheelbuilder.com.

I get to the question about upgrading to ceramic bearings, and I'm wondering if it's worth it. Part of me thinks if these are training wheels, no need to bother with them, but if someone has experience with them and thinks they are totally awesome let me know. At this point leaning towards not getting them. For race wheels maybe.

Lastly, anyone have any advice on which wheel building site to use? prowheelbuilder vs. wheelbuilder vs. any other?

Thanks

Not, even for racing. Most ceramics are hybrid, mild steel races with ceramic balls and are actually less durable than stainless thruout. Not worth the $, mostly marketing.

Second, 'training' wheel..don't use expensive spokes, like Cx-Ray or DT aerolight..not worth the $ either. Brass nipps as well, use them.

Got a local wheelbuilder who can design, then build wheels specifically for you and your needs? Use them.

 

[cryan5301]

Cool, thanks for the advice. I'll look around for someone local...don't know of anyone but I'll ask around.

To answer "Also, what factors have you considered regarding the build? What are your local roads like? Do you climb a lot? Do you mash or spin? How heavy are you? If these wheels are going to be ridden hard daily make sure you spoke up or have deep pockets."

Roads are rolling terrain, I climb a lot, 1.89m 71kg, and am much more of a spinner than a masher.

My current training wheels (2010/11 HED Ardennes) have 10,000+ miles on them, and have become very sluggish. After riding them for years I can tell they need extra power compared to other wheels I own/ride sparingly, and have become slow (not the worst thing for training, but it gets frustrating at times). I wouldn't mind just overhauling these, but have no idea where to start--hubs? bearings?

 

[richwagmn]

If it's bearings there's usually a few online guides around. The thing is you'd also need some tools to do it.

I recently went this route because I like to work on bikes and the tools weren't that expensive when I needed to replace the rear bearings on my DT240s hub.

Sure, it would have been cheaper to hit a shop, but it was the middle of summer and the shop I used had a one a half week delay to get my wheels fixed.

I wouldn't throw your wheels out if they feel sluggish. Bearings are quite cheap and a good mechanic can remove and replace them easily enough.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I wouldn't throw your wheels out if they feel sluggish. Bearings are quite cheap and a good mechanic can remove and replace them easily enough.

Rich is right. See about getting the hub overhauled and ride them until the flange cracks or spokes break. Then do what bustedknuckle posted.

 

[cryan5301]

Cool. Appreciate the advice. If I was to just get new hubs, which would you recommend? Or just ask for new bearings. I ride a lot but wheels/wheel maintenance is alien to me, something I admittedly need to learn about.

Thanks

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Cool. Appreciate the advice. If I was to just get new hubs, which would you recommend? Or just ask for new bearings. I ride a lot but wheels/wheel maintenance is alien to me, something I admittedly need to learn about.

Thanks

Overhaul the present wheels, no need for new hubs..what hubs are they now, the wheels you own?

 

[cryan5301]

Overhaul the present wheels, no need for new hubs..what hubs are they now, the wheels you own?

HED FR Sonic Hubs

 

[Master50]

Hi all,

I'm looking to build up a new set of training wheels. Looking at getting HED Belgian C2s w/ White Industry T11 Hubs through wheelbuilder.com.

I get to the question about upgrading to ceramic bearings, and I'm wondering if it's worth it. Part of me thinks if these are training wheels, no need to bother with them, but if someone has experience with them and thinks they are totally awesome let me know. At this point leaning towards not getting them. For race wheels maybe.

Lastly, anyone have any advice on which wheel building site to use? prowheelbuilder vs. wheelbuilder vs. any other?

Thanks

I have tried upgrade bearings and it wore out the races and cones in around 6000 km. I have high quality Campy hubs too. I could replace all the worn parts in Campy hubs. If you upgrade to ceramic you also need to change the races and the cones of cup and cone style hubs. For cartridge bearings the seals often add enough drag that the advantage of the smoother bearings is lost. For training wheels go for the lowest maintenance lots of wet riding and good seals start to matter. Ceramic might be an advantage for rust reasons but they are so expensive in the fully non rust versions that they are not cost effective. While the actual ceramic bearing does not rust, most of the races do.

 

[cryan5301]

How often do you all have your hubs overhauled? Just curious. Like I said, got these wheels back in 2011 and haven't had any maintenance aside from re-tensioning, truing, and converting to 11 speed. Lots of miles

 

[Bustedknuckle]

How often do you all have your hubs overhauled? Just curious. Like I said, got these wheels back in 2011 and haven't had any maintenance aside from re-tensioning, truing, and converting to 11 speed. Lots of miles

I do my bearings, all of them, BB, hubs, headset, once per year. If I get stuck in the wet, then again after that.

Decent built wheels don't need 'retensioning'..maybe truing but spokes tensioned correctly at the outset, don't lose tension. If the rim gets wacked, truing, but not all around the wheel, regularly. This idea that new wheels 'have to be taken back in after a few rides for retensioning' is bugle oil.

 

[cryan5301]

I do my bearings, all of them, BB, hubs, headset, once per year. If I get stuck in the wet, then again after that.

Decent built wheels don't need 'retensioning'..maybe truing but spokes tensioned correctly at the outset, don't lose tension. If the rim gets wacked, truing, but not all around the wheel, regularly. This idea that new wheels 'have to be taken back in after a few rides for retensioning' is bugle oil.

Not surprised...long story, but the re-tensioning was done by a shop that I don't trust or frequent.

So what I'm taking is that I should have these bad boys overhauled, as they have thousands of miles on them/hundreds in the rain?

 

[Master50]

Not surprised...long story, but the re-tensioning was done by a shop that I don't trust or frequent.

So what I'm taking is that I should have these bad boys overhauled, as they have thousands of miles on them/hundreds in the rain?

I have a pair nucleon wheels that I wore the rims out on my winter bike. I live in a rainy climate. This winter I changed the rims as I had nearly worn them through the brake track. This was the first time since 2003? or the 1 year they called neutron wheels nucleon that I had over hauled the bearings. the grease was grey and some parts still white. Point being they don't have very many seals and stayed dry for around 10 years. BTW I never cleaned them with water except at the rims.. Hoses shorten bearing life.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Not surprised...long story, but the re-tensioning was done by a shop that I don't trust or frequent.

So what I'm taking is that I should have these bad boys overhauled, as they have thousands of miles on them/hundreds in the rain?

Yes...easy to do, standard sized bearings. Probably 4 in the rear, 2 in the front.

 

[winkybiker]

I bought some Fulcrum Racing 5s for my second bike. Cheap enough and they seem really good. I got the CX version which is the same as the regular version but has better sealed bearings (the minor drag penalty is no issue to me).

 

[richwagmn]

I have tried upgrade bearings and it wore out the races and cones in around 6000 km.

I miss cup and cone bearings. So easy to service (at least the ones I had). A couple of cone wrenches, some new bearings, grease, a little fiddling to get the adjustment right and done.

Now you need a press, maybe some special tools (think DT240 lockring tool), more expensive bearings and some instructions for whatever funky design the hub maker came up with. Do cartridge bearings even last longer? The seals on say upper end Shimano hubs seemed pretty good to me. And wouldn't cup and code bearings also resist side to side forces better?

Doesn't seem like a step forward to me.

 

[JayKosta]

I miss cup and cone bearings.
...
Doesn't seem like a step forward to me.

==================
Sealed cartridge bearings eliminate much of the mechanical skill that is needed to adjust cup & cone bearing.

For a bike manufacturer (or even LBS mechanic) it means the job of installing/replacing bearings is easier and quicker. Plus there a fewer 'come-backs' due to bearing trouble.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

 

[Bustedknuckle]

==================
Sealed cartridge bearings eliminate much of the mechanical skill that is needed to adjust cup & cone bearing.

For a bike manufacturer (or even LBS mechanic) it means the job of installing/replacing bearings is easier and quicker. Plus there a fewer 'come-backs' due to bearing trouble.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

BUT really it's a way to make hubs cheaper. They aren't any less expensive, just cheaper to make. Just machine a bearing seat, slap one in there, done. No need to do things like make races.

IF the shop/wrench knows what he is doing and has a proper bearing press. I have seen more than a few dead, NEW cart bearings that were just hammered into the hub..

 

[42x16ss]

I miss cup and cone bearings. So easy to service (at least the ones I had). A couple of cone wrenches, some new bearings, grease, a little fiddling to get the adjustment right and done.

Now you need a press, maybe some special tools (think DT240 lockring tool), more expensive bearings and some instructions for whatever funky design the hub maker came up with. Do cartridge bearings even last longer? The seals on say upper end Shimano hubs seemed pretty good to me. And wouldn't cup and code bearings also resist side to side forces better?

Doesn't seem like a step forward to me.

AFAIK Shimano and Campag/Fulcrum still use cup and cone, I haven't needed to work on the latest model hubs yet though. I don't see any reason they would change after all these years, because Dura-Ace/Record hubs are amongst the best on the market IMO.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

AFAIK Shimano and Campag/Fulcrum still use cup and cone, I haven't needed to work on the latest model hubs yet though. I don't see any reason they would change after all these years, because Dura-Ace/Record hubs are amongst the best on the market IMO.

They do, at least the higher end ones as are their wheelsets, both companies.