Can they just sell the frame, for gosh sakes!

[Boeing]

why are these companies making it so hard to buy a frame only?

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Of course you cannot. People would rather buy a bike hung with the bike company's house brand of components and whatever else will cheap out the build. If they sold you a bare frame then the bike company's profits would decrease while the component makers would get more money from end customers instead of selling in bulk to OEMs at massive discounts. Sure the customers would get the joy of having exactly the components they wanted on their bikes, but losing that pleasure is a small price to pay for funneling most of the profits to a few large companies. Come on, think, man. We cannot have small competitors on a level playing field. It would be chaos.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Of course you cannot. People would rather buy a bike hung with the bike company's house brand of components and whatever else will cheap out the build. If they sold you a bare frame then the bike company's profits would decrease while the component makers would get more money from end customers instead of selling in bulk to OEMs at massive discounts. Sure the customers would get the joy of having exactly the components they wanted on their bikes, but losing that pleasure is a small price to pay for funneling most of the profits to a few large companies. Come on, think, man. We cannot have small competitors on a level playing field. It would be chaos.

Component/wheel makers give frame companies offers they can't refuse when it comes to making bikes. This, along with huge margins on the frames, make a margin that is HUGE...so to maximize these $/Euros/Yen/Yuan/whatever, complete bikes they are.

 

[Notso Swift]

The built bike seems better "value" as a result

$5000 for a frame or $7000 for a built bike with a combined "value" (percieved) of $10,000... iut makes your (insert brand) seem cheap...

 

[Barracuda]

Exactly ....... I am in the same boat ... I want to buy a frame to fit me better post neck injury and am unable to at a reasonable price and simply swap over my componants.

Looked at Pedal Force .... but unsure as to history ??

Anyone ??

 

[Hawkwood]

Exactly ....... I am in the same boat ... I want to buy a frame to fit me better post neck injury and am unable to at a reasonable price and simply swap over my componants.

Looked at Pedal Force .... but unsure as to history ??

Anyone ??

I'm in the same boat re the neck trouble. Most modern frames have got low stack heights compared with older frames, and all I'm trying to do is get a frame with the same headtube length/stack as the ones I used to race on in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. The best way round I've found is to buy cheap Specialized bikes and then sell off the equipment on an auction site. I've done this twice so far, first with an Allez and then with a Secteur. The frames have worked out costing about £200-250 after I've sold the equipment. Weight-wise both bikes have been around 8.1 kgs after my rebuilds, but this is with an XL frame and not particularly light gear. The set-up I raced on in the 1990s had a saddle to handlebar drop of 65 mms, my present set-up is 70 mms. I could get a saddle/handlebar drop of 110 mms on the Secteur if I wanted to, just by removing the spacers, and up to 120-130 mms with a different angled stem.

 

[Captain Serious]

it's tough around here to get Cannondale frames separately, especially for decent prices. A few years ago, a local shop had a CAAD9 with 105 and some cheap Shimano wheels on special for $2200, and the guy quoted me $1700 for the frame!!!

My percpetion is that low and mid-range complete bikes are usually better value than separate frames, and the higher-end complete bikes can be a bit overpriced. What is kinda annoying is when companies put $200 wheels on high-end bikes, but the bikes still sell for around $10,000.

Then there are the bikes that just don't add up at all, like this Carrera Hercules with Di2 and Lightweights for $25000!!!
http://www.bikeexchange.com.au/bicy...ra-hercules-dura-ace-di-2/miami/qld/100154931 (The Lightweights aren't in the pic, but are listed int he specs)
I know no one will ever pay that, but still! I gather shops do it for shock value, and so idiots like me will tell everyone about it, giving the shop free publicity.

 

[cromagnon]

Of course you cannot. People would rather buy a bike hung with the bike company's house brand of components and whatever else will cheap out the build. If they sold you a bare frame then the bike company's profits would decrease while the component makers would get more money from end customers instead of selling in bulk to OEMs at massive discounts. Sure the customers would get the joy of having exactly the components they wanted on their bikes, but losing that pleasure is a small price to pay for funneling most of the profits to a few large companies. Come on, think, man. We cannot have small competitors on a level playing field. It would be chaos.

The fabled "rational" market at work. Money gravitates like matter, the more you already have, the more you can attract.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

All comes down to $$$. It used to be frame only for the high end, then you work with your shop to kit it out with whatever grouppo, and decent wheels usually built by the shop, so the big mfg's figured they could mass produce the whole line and keep their exponentially huge profits for cutting corners on let's say, wheels. Long gone are the days of a college aged kid saving up a summers worth of work to buy a pro level bike. Carbon totally changed the demographics of cycling from being fairly accessible to completely out of reach unless your wealthy parents and/or trust fund says otherwise. Not to worry, the big mfg's are planning to flood the market with even cheaper carbon than what's out there now.

 

[Benotti69]

it's tough around here to get Cannondale frames separately, especially for decent prices. A few years ago, a local shop had a CAAD9 with 105 and some cheap Shimano wheels on special for $2200, and the guy quoted me $1700 for the frame!!!

My percpetion is that low and mid-range complete bikes are usually better value than separate frames, and the higher-end complete bikes can be a bit overpriced. What is kinda annoying is when companies put $200 wheels on high-end bikes, but the bikes still sell for around $10,000.

Then there are the bikes that just don't add up at all, like this Carrera Hercules with Di2 and Lightweights for $25000!!!
http://www.bikeexchange.com.au/bicy...ra-hercules-dura-ace-di-2/miami/qld/100154931
I know no one will ever pay that, but still! I gather shops do it for shock value, and so idiots like me will tell everyone about it, giving the shop free publicity.

at least Colnago have a ferarri bike, which the name means something to people stupid enough to pay that kind of money for a bike and ferarri acutally have had some input into Colnago bikes for a while now and it is only $17,750.00

http://store.ferrari.com/it/sport-g...olnago-for-ferrari-di2-edizione-limitata.html

 

[ElChingon]

I read what sounds like total nonsense!

You can buy any frame you want, sure not at the local or distant "we only build complete bikes" shop, but there are still local and distant bike shops who will do as you want and not burn a hole in your wallet for it. I have never bought a complete bike, ok except my first one, but after that its been frame separate from components and even groupo's parted out as I want not as the vendor/shop wants. You have to look around and ask and even demand what you want. Yes some deals are to be had on junk components you don't want to be caught dead riding on a complete bike buy, so you can always re-sell those parts if you really want to go that route.

Don't settle for what they want, you're buying so you get what you want.

Back to the complete bike deal(s). If you can setup a friend or someone to buy the junk components off of you, you can actually end up paying much less for the frame than if you bought it alone, but you have to find someone to part out the bike with. Not that I've ever done that

 

[Notso Swift]

it's tough around here to get Cannondale frames separately, especially for decent prices. A few years ago, a local shop had a CAAD9 with 105 and some cheap Shimano wheels on special for $2200, and the guy quoted me $1700 for the frame!!!

My percpetion is that low and mid-range complete bikes are usually better value than separate frames, and the higher-end complete bikes can be a bit overpriced. What is kinda annoying is when companies put $200 wheels on high-end bikes, but the bikes still sell for around $10,000.

Then there are the bikes that just don't add up at all, like this Carrera Hercules with Di2 and Lightweights for $25000!!!
http://www.bikeexchange.com.au/bicy...ra-hercules-dura-ace-di-2/miami/qld/100154931
I know no one will ever pay that, but still! I gather shops do it for shock value, and so idiots like me will tell everyone about it, giving the shop free publicity.

My local has the same bike with Super Record for $17k (inc Lightwieghts), since FULL RETAIL Di2 is about $4500 and SR is $4700 in AU... (and you buy both locally for about 3.5 on sale) Hmmm

 

[richwagmn]

Exactly ....... I am in the same boat ... I want to buy a frame to fit me better post neck injury and am unable to at a reasonable price and simply swap over my componants.

Looked at Pedal Force .... but unsure as to history ??

Anyone ??

I know Specialized and Trek are building the same frame with different head tube lengths. Are all the major manufacturers doing this now?

 

[purpletezza]

I usually wait a bit and then pick up a new frame that's been hanging up in a shop unloved/unwanted for a couple of years at half the original price. At that point the shop just wants to see the frame go to cover costs and most people only want to buy a full bike anyway. Build up with parts from the internet and you get a new bike for about 50% of what it would have cost 2 years ago but is new!

Only look at the top notch frames like the TDF/Team frames though as they retain their perceived value and bling factor.

 

[Captain Serious]

at least Colnago have a ferarri bike, which the name means something to people stupid enough to pay that kind of money for a bike and ferarri acutally have had some input into Colnago bikes for a while now and it is only $17,750.00

http://store.ferrari.com/it/sport-g...olnago-for-ferrari-di2-edizione-limitata.html

I know of a couple of guys who ride those, but I think they're older models

 

[Captain Serious]

My local has the same bike with Super Record for $17k (inc Lightwieghts), since FULL RETAIL Di2 is about $4500 and SR is $4700 in AU... (and you buy both locally for about 3.5 on sale) Hmmm

Well, that's slightly more reasonable

 

[Notso Swift]

Well, that's slightly more reasonable

You mean it doesn't add up by less!!!

 

[Captain Serious]

I usually wait a bit and then pick up a new frame that's been hanging up in a shop unloved/unwanted for a couple of years at half the original price. At that point the shop just wants to see the frame go to cover costs and most people only want to buy a full bike anyway. Build up with parts from the internet and you get a new bike for about 50% of what it would have cost 2 years ago but is new!
.

Same here. I won't bore everyone with my whole bike price/buying philosophy (which is basically, 'why the fark pay a small fortune for stuff when ya don't haffta?'), but I've got several bargains over the years, and it's getting better for me, with Ebay Aus growing rapidly, and Dura-Ace 7800 finally dropping in value. Without checking my 'inventory', I bought a cool NOS alu Ciocc frame for $700, which was a great price at the time, then bought another one at the same shop a few years later for $400; an alu Soloist frame for $900, which was also a good price at the time, especially here, where the rec retail is currently $2200!! I've got a few cheap Asian alu frames for under $250, which are awesome value!!

....anyway, it goes on and on.....the most expensive frame I've ever bought was my steel Cervelo Superprodigy, which was $1700 in 2004

 

[Captain Serious]

You mean it doesn't add up by less!!!

Ha! Yep, it's much less, but still unreasonable by my tight standards.
If I had that sort of money I'd buy a house.

 

[durianrider]

I cant believe how cheap bikes are here in the US! Its RUTHLESS cheap compared to back home. I can get SL3 S-WORKS frameset for 1700$ and back home they are 3k+.

If you sold bikes in oz this cheap, you would lose your contract with the wholesaler sharks. Check out treks own website and look at the same models with inflated price tags once you hit the oz site.

 

[Barracuda]

I cant believe how cheap bikes are here in the US! Its RUTHLESS cheap compared to back home. I can get SL3 S-WORKS frameset for 1700$ and back home they are 3k+.

If you sold bikes in oz this cheap, you would lose your contract with the wholesaler sharks. Check out treks own website and look at the same models with inflated price tags once you hit the oz site.

Ask around while youre over there ... see what Pedal Force are like...

From all accounts can get one delivered to my door hear in OZ for about $800 AUD

 

[durianrider]

For me I judge a bike companies quality on their warranty and how good they are at backing it up. I would chase that up and that will answer the question IMHO.

Looks like they got a 5 year warranty on frames. Thats double the length of most euro frames that cost 5-10 times as much.