Cav wants to beat Merckx' TDF wins

[ferryman]

Apologies in advance if this has been discussed. If so, Mod please delete.

But I think this passage/quote from the uber fast Manxman is worthy of discussion:

Cavendish revealed that his long-term Tour de France goal is to beat Eddy Merckx's record of 34 stage wins. "But that will be very difficult," he said. "To win one stage at the Tour is difficult and special, and that's all I try to do when I start."

15 wins so far for Cav Vs 34 for Eddy. Is this an achievable goal for Cav? What is he 25? What do you all think?

 

[boomslang]

Cav isn't Eddy... and he never will be. Enough said.

 

[scribe]

How much money will that be worth to him on the market for contracts?

 

[For The World]

On a pure numbers basis, Cipollini won 42 stages in the Giro - beating Eddys record surely for that race. Have a look at just how much Cipollini actually won - Cavendish has a long way to go to beat this list (which, given his age, could well be possible).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Cipollini#Major_results

Cavendish may think he'll be the best, and able to be compared to Eddy Merckx if he beats his record of TDF stage wins. However, even with more wins than Eddy, simply winning by being faster in the last 200m isn't as good as being faster than everyone across every type of terrain.

Best Sprinter? With a massive lead out yes. Better than Eddy - heavens no.

 

[Martin318is]

Eddy wasn't "stuck" only targetting bunch sprint finishes. Cav misses out on being able to win Time Trials and mountain top stages. That leaves him with a cluster of stages in the "flat week(s)" each year.

If he has 4 more years like the last couple then yes he can do it, however the moment a faster rider comes onto the scene (it'll more than likely happen - just ask every sprinter that came before him) then the wins will start to dry up.

Not saying its impossible, just saying its far from a simple mathematical equation and he needs keep himself focussed on just the next Tour and win there - not the next 5.

 

[ferryman]

Cav isn't Eddy... and he never will be. Enough said.

+1 100% but the post is about stage wins

 

[The Hitch]

If he does or doesnt it will show just how great Merckx was.

Cav challenges him on the stage win/ sprinter front

Contador challenges him on the GT front

Valverde challenges him on the stage race front.

Cancellara/ Gillbert challenge him on the classics/ monument fronts.

You have the 5 great guys from the present generation challenge him on individual fronts and most likely, none will succeed.

For the record i do think Cav can do it.

 

[For The World]

If he does or doesnt it will show just how great Merckx was.

Cav challenges him on the stage win/ sprinter front

Contador challenges him on the GT front

Valverde challenges him on the stage race front.

Cancellara/ Gillbert challenge him on the classics/ monument fronts.

You have the 5 great guys from the present generation challenge him on individual fronts and most likely, none will succeed.

For the record i do think Cav can do it.

This just makes him (Eddy) THAT much better, especially when you consider who he was going up against in the early 70s for those classics (Moser, De Vlaeminck etc.).

 

[El Pistolero]

If he does or doesnt it will show just how great Merckx was.

Cav challenges him on the stage win/ sprinter front

Contador challenges him on the GT front

Valverde challenges him on the stage race front.

Cancellara/ Gillbert challenge him on the classics/ monument fronts.

You have the 5 great guys from the present generation challenge him on individual fronts and most likely, none will succeed.

For the record i do think Cav can do it.

I'd say Contador can easily do better than Merckx on the stage race front(depends on how he comes out his ban though). He didn't actually win that many stage races compared to some other cyclists(like Sean Kelly).

And let's be honest here. Merckx was lucky to live in a time where 2 year bans were beyond imagination.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

If he does or doesnt it will show just how great Merckx was.

Cav challenges him on the stage win/ sprinter front

Contador challenges him on the GT front

Valverde challenges him on the stage race front.

Cancellara/ Gillbert challenge him on the classics/ monument fronts.

You have the 5 great guys from the present generation challenge him on individual fronts and most likely, none will succeed.

For the record i do think Cav can do it.

Well put. I also think Cav can do it. But just imagine how many Tour stage wins EM could have won if he had just targeted the Tour.

 

[AngusW]

Is it 34 or 35?

A tally of Merckx's individual stage wins:

1969: 6
1970: 8
1971: 4
1972: 6
1974: 8
1975: 2
1977: 1

Does anyone know what the story is with the 1977 stage win? I heard it was awarded after the stage winner Joachim Agostinho was disqualified. On some records it doesn't appear as a win for Merckx.

 

[TheDude]

Sure, he might, but who cares, unless he can grab 5 overall TDF wins on the way. One trick pony that Cav. A very fast trick to be sure, but not an overall racehorse.

 

[flicker]

I'd say Contador can easily do better than Merckx on the stage race front(depends on how he comes out his ban though). He didn't actually win that many stage races compared to some other cyclists(like Sean Kelly).

And let's be honest here. Merckx was lucky to live in a time where 2 year bans were beyond imagination.

Wow that is far reaching. Do you really believe Contador can outdo Eddys' GT Palmares. Far out man!

 

[auscyclefan94]

i reckon griepel will knock cav off his perch next year and win more stages than cav at le tour!

 

[Marcus135]

i reckon griepel will knock cav off his perch next year and win more stages than cav at le tour!

Yea i agree, most of HTC's lead out train is gone and i doubt he will be able to do it on his own with many other teams launching their own trains.

 

[Mambo95]

Yea i agree, most of HTC's lead out train is gone and i doubt he will be able to do it on his own with many other teams launching their own trains.

You obviously missed stages 18 and 20 of the Tour then. And the key guys - Renshaw, Eisel and Martin are all still at HTC.

 

[Ferminal]

Cav is in a league of his own, Greipel is back in the pack with the rest of the sprinters.

At best Greipel would beat Cav 20% of the time (okay it's just a random number but anyway).

 

[Marcus135]

You obviously missed stages 18 and 20 of the Tour then. And the key guys - Renshaw, Eisel and Martin are all still at HTC.

I did not miss those stages at all that would have been silly. I just think that with Greipel there with a strong team he can beat cav... Just what i think we will just have to wait until next season to find out

 

[auscyclefan94]

I disagree Ferminal.

1. Cav's victories rely on a strong leadout. If it is messy it is a lot harder for mark
2. Griepel often loses his leadout man in the sprint and comes from a long way back and still wins.

If Andre can stick to his train a bit better he will take some stages off Cav and then you've also got to look at farrar.

 

[El Pistolero]

Wow that is far reaching. Do you really believe Contador can outdo Eddys' GT Palmares. Far out man!

You need to learn how to read. Stage race= one week race. Otherwise I woul've said Grand Tour.

And it isn't that far fetched to see someone win more Grand Tours than Merckx. Sure they won't do it with as many stage wins or other jersey wins(rules were different then, so shouldn't even be compared).

Merckx was like 29 years old when he won his last Grand Tour. Nowadays GT contenders are on their peak form when they're 32 years old. Contador has(or had, depends on how long he's banned and how he comes out of it) a good shot of breaking Merckx's 11 GT wins.

Now one has to wonder why Lance Armstrong never tried to break his record and why he suddenly retired in 2005... It smells like fish.

 

[dsut4392]

I disagree Ferminal.

1. Cav's victories rely on a strong leadout. If it is messy it is a lot harder for mark
2. Griepel often loses his leadout man in the sprint and comes from a long way back and still wins.

If Andre can stick to his train a bit better he will take some stages off Cav and then you've also got to look at farrar.

If Greipel is so much better, why did HTC relegate him to their B-squad and give Cav his pick of races and all the best support? Just because Greipel is a borink robotic Cherman?
If Stapleton thought Greipel was a better bet to win things, he would have been top dog. If you think have better data on the two riders than their team manager, feel free to share it...

"If Andre can stick to his train a bit better" about sums it up...he can't reliably finish things off even when given an armchair ride by his train. Witness his comparably rubbish showing in the Giro this year.

 

[auscyclefan94]

If Greipel is so much better, why did HTC relegate him to their B-squad and give Cav his pick of races and all the best support? Just because Greipel is a borink robotic Cherman?
If Stapleton thought Greipel was a better bet to win things, he would have been top dog. If you think have better data on the two riders than their team manager, feel free to share it...

"If Andre can stick to his train a bit better" about sums it up...he can't reliably finish things off even when given an armchair ride by his train. Witness his comparably rubbish showing in the Giro this year.

Griepel has never been proven against Cav so nobody can make any judgements against between them.

he still finishes things off when he gets lost from his train anyway.

A lot to do with friendships. I bet the native english speakers are very clingy with each other.

 

[adamski101]

Griepel has never been proven against Cav so nobody can make any judgements against between them.

he still finishes things off when he gets lost from his train anyway.

A lot to do with friendships. I bet the native english speakers are very clingy with each other.

Greipel does not always win when he loses his train, the Giro this year was enough evidence of this.

Cavendish has shown during the last two sprints at the the tour that he can win without a lead out train. However he will still have hsi two main men next year in Renshaw and Eisel and I think Rasmussen will be a good addition to the lead out.

Cavendish biggest threat will come from Farrar, I believe, for starters he is going to have Hushovd and Dean leading him out, which could be very effective. But at the end of the day it comes down to pure speed and Cav has the edge over Farrar, Greipel and whoever else in that regard.

 

[Hawkwood]

A lot to do with friendships. I bet the native english speakers are very clingy with each other.

Except Cav is not a `native english speaker' he speaks a form of pidgen Manx/Scouse.

 

[Jan the Man]

Greipel will be in a team competing on three fronts (Greipel, Gilbert and VdB)

Cavendish will be in a team competing soley with the aim of getting him in Green/win stages...

Cavendish, Renshaw, Goss, Eisel, Martin, Grabsch, Rabon, Velits (twins)- Pretty impressive sprinti based team there.