CERA Saxo and Columbia

Mar 13, 2009
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Cedric Vasseur had said Columbia and Saxo all tested positive to CERA last year at the Tour, confirming all the "noise" circulating in the press. This comes via thirdhand, I would be 4th party, two professionals, onto me. This could be a Chinese whispers, ofcourse. And I find it difficult to believe Lovqvist and Hansen were charged. Even Konstantin Siutsou, who was getting a hand on Barloworld, but then his performance went backwards last year.

Vasseur is head of the riders union. Funny, Jens Voigt is on the board.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Hard to give much credence to 4th hand information, but very interesting nonetheless.
By 'All' do you mean the entire team(s) or just selected riders? Hate to think Cav and Sastre are caught up in this. Would be another Tour de Farce!
 
I doubt this. It would be corruption on a massive level. The decision not to release the positives would be the AFLD's. The UCI would not have been able to cover it up. The French government would have had to have made the decision. Maybe possible, but even if they had decided not to take a whole team like Saxo down, why not ding one of their riders as a shot fired across their bow? Why Kohl, Schumacher, and Ricco but not Cancellara or Hincapie?

Of course it would explain how Saxo was riding last year...

On the other hand I was surprised that there were not more CERA positives. Undetectable drug that gives a large, as seen by Ricco and SChumacher, gain but only a handful of riders use it at the Tour? Maybe some people were tipped off about the new test.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Problem with shooting 1 rider down is that everyone knows Riis calls the shots and the attention and suspicion would quickly transfer to the other riders given his history of systematic team doping. I find it hard to believe a rider on that team would independantly seek out a program without team consent. Especially given the Basso and Schleck Blood Bags.

Has Evans been duped again? Poor Guy.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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BroDeal said:
I doubt this. It would be corruption on a massive level. The decision not to release the positives would be the AFLD's. The UCI would not have been able to cover it up. The French government would have had to have made the decision. Maybe possible, but even if they had decided not to take a whole team like Saxo down, why not ding one of their riders as a shot fired across their bow? Why Kohl, Schumacher, and Ricco but not Cancellara or Hincapie?

Of course it would explain how Saxo was riding last year...

On the other hand I was surprised that there were not more CERA positives. Undetectable drug that gives a large, as seen by Ricco and SChumacher, gain but only a handful of riders use it at the Tour? Maybe some people were tipped off about the new test.
Bro, did you see all the noise coming out in the press, about the 12 or 15 Tour positives?

That never came out. To me this is just confirmation.

"positive" may just mean, values so suspicious, or bands on the MSGC assay, were "ambiguous", and if they had the political courage to prosectute (sanction) they could have.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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unsheath said:
Hard to give much credence to 4th hand information, but very interesting nonetheless.
By 'All' do you mean the entire team(s) or just selected riders? Hate to think Cav and Sastre are caught up in this. Would be another Tour de Farce!
the world was "all". But Hansen and Lovqvist, don't buy it. Siutsou, don't necessarily buy it, he was better on a Corti program.

Now, you need to read up on August, September and October, of the 12 to 15 positives from the Tour, coming out. They never came out did they. These stories and reports were in reputable press.

If you just assume I am engaging in rumour, then throw this out, this is BigBoat bull**** speculation. But see this in the terms, that there was alot of "noise" last year, surrounding Tour positives. Those positives never came out.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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BroDeal said:
If is true then that would be disappointing since the AFLD is about the only organization that so far has not looked corrupt.
I never thought of that Bro.

I was assuming it was a UCI thing.

But just like AIG, Columbia AND Saxo, were too big to fail. The fact that Kohl and Schumacher's team disappeared, made them easy marks. But they were doing something before, Fothen was about 11th the year Cunego pipped him for white.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Escarabajo said:
I never heard of 15 positives at the tour. I heard of 20-30 riders with suspicious readings that were being target. I could be proven wrong.
look how Kim Kirchen timetrialied, never ever showed that ability. Yeah, he won some prologue in 2005ish Luxembourg, and did ok in 2007 Suisse chrono. But showed nothing to prove he could ride against the clock.

He did improve in 2007, but not to the level of 2008 Tour.

Then he was never even on the 2006 Tour team on T-Mobile. They left him off because he did not make the cut. From Fassa, and Ferretti was caught with a load of EPO one year.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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While this would certainly be no surprise to many people, it seems to cross into pretty undesirable speculative territory.. I don't have much taste for damnation of a large group anymore than I do for just a handful of riders, so long as I believe there are still plenty more out there who are likely just as guilty.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Reynolds Boy said:
While this would certainly be no surprise to many people, it seems to cross into pretty undesirable speculative territory.. I don't have much taste for damnation of a large group anymore than I do for just a handful of riders, so long as I believe there are still plenty more out there who are likely just as guilty.
agree, just amusing Vasseur blabbing about it.
 
Unsheath - You said "Especially given the Basso and Schleck Blood Bags." I imagine in reference to OP. But Schleck never had any blood bags of any sort in OP, and isn't in Fuentes books either (unless by code that has yet to be deciphered). The Schlecks got connected through a large payment to the good doctor after everything else came out.

As to this story? Who knows. It may be an instance where for all the talk about CERA being detectable, it really wasn't that cut and dry - recall that Kohl said he should have failed many more tests than he did for Cera. So the 15-20 suspicious tests may be those that are just that, and suspected of being Cera, but not as clear as Kohl (Schumacher, etc.), and those are now being talked about as belonging to Columbia and Saxo.

Would be really surprising to find the AFLD and ASO as corrupt as that. I'd believe this from the UCI however.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Unsheath - You said "Especially given the Basso and Schleck Blood Bags." I imagine in reference to OP. But Schleck never had any blood bags of any sort in OP, and isn't in Fuentes books either (unless by code that has yet to be deciphered). The Schlecks got connected through a large payment to the good doctor after everything else came out.

As to this story? Who knows. It may be an instance where for all the talk about CERA being detectable, it really wasn't that cut and dry - recall that Kohl said he should have failed many more tests than he did for Cera. So the 15-20 suspicious tests may be those that are just that, and suspected of being Cera, but not as clear as Kohl (Schumacher, etc.), and those are now being talked about as belonging to Columbia and Saxo.

Would be really surprising to find the AFLD and ASO as corrupt as that. I'd believe this from the UCI however.
actually, yes Schleck did. He was "amigo de Birillo".

Cance was "classicomano Lugi"

and Dekker and Menchov had blood there also, from my source.

They just did not have their "code" cracked. There were over 100 bags, and only a few linked to riders with the codes.

come on Alpe, expect better form from you, you gotta start doping to get with the program :D
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Reynolds Boy said:
if it proves true, we can say where we heard it first ;)
Reynolds, it wont come out now. There was obviously much to and fro behind the scenes last year, if the mail is correct.

But there must have been some hyperbole, I just cannot see Lovqvist testing positive, and Hansen, and even Siutsou, he would have been better. He went backwards from being under Corti's spell.
 
Ha!

blackcat said:
actually, yes Schleck did. He was "amigo de Birillo".
You sure about that? It was my understanding that "amigo di Brilio" was most likely Eddy Mazzoleni, who is the brother-in-law of Ivan Basso; (Eddy married Elisa Basso). Another rumored name was Giovanni Lombardi, who was friends (not only teammates, but actual friends) with Basso. It also makes more sense that an Italian would fit that bill, no?

If you've got a better source tying Schleck to "amigo di Brillo", I'm all ears.

As to the "code names", I don't know that these riders were ever identified beyond guesswork, but again, if you have a reasonably good idea, or connection (I have zero) I'm all ears here too:

• Porras
• Lai
• Nibelungo
• Zapatero
• Guti
• Alcalde
• Vcs
• Goku

Somewhere I've got the big list, with a lot of good guesses as to who might be who.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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one thing that makes me suspect that the Old CSC team was doping was that Riis wanted Ullrich on the team. He no doubt new Ullrich doped as he doped alongside him when they were at Telekom. So if he following a new anti-doping code then why try and get Ullrich?
 
May 26, 2009
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Indurain said:
one thing that makes me suspect that the Old CSC team was doping was that Riis wanted Ullrich on the team. He no doubt new Ullrich doped as he doped alongside him when they were at Telekom. So if he following a new anti-doping code then why try and get Ullrich?

Nonsense he didn't suspect a thing. That would be the same when JB tried to take in a Puerto suspect to replace Lance, Basso. JB simply didn't have a clue what the impact of Puerto was. Heck, I'm sure JB at that moment thought it was a dogfood scheme.

I trust Bjarne and Johan completely. Nothing they have ever done indicates they are anything but strictly anti-doping.
 
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Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
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blackcat said:
Cedric Vasseur had said Columbia and Saxo all tested positive to CERA last year at the Tour, confirming all the "noise" circulating in the press. This comes via thirdhand, I would be 4th party, two professionals, onto me. This could be a Chinese whispers, ofcourse. And I find it difficult to believe Lovqvist and Hansen were charged. Even Konstantin Siutsou, who was getting a hand on Barloworld, but then his performance went backwards last year.

Vasseur is head of the riders union. Funny, Jens Voigt is on the board.

I don't remember any "noise" last year. The only thing I can remember is Kohl said that he reckoned the top 10 on GC must be doped. Vasseur threatened to sue but Kohl backed down by saying he was misquoted by L'Equipe.

But if you have a link or remember approx when it was I would certainly be interested in checking it out.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
I don't remember any "noise" last year. The only thing I can remember is Kohl said that he reckoned the top 10 on GC must be doped. Vasseur threatened to sue but Kohl backed down by saying he was misquoted by L'Equipe.

But if you have a link or remember approx when it was I would certainly be interested in checking it out.

At the time, a bunch of usually extremely reliable media sources all simultaneously published the same information: that 13 riders had tested positive for CERA with the new (at the time) blood test: 2 each from Columbia, Scott, AG2R, Gerolsteiner and 5 from CSC
Also, a guy on another forum, who is usually in the know and blurts out scoops before anyone else (the Rasmussen thing for example) and always had always up until then gotten every "scoop" right, said the exact same thing......

Then the positives were announced and were limited to 2 Gerolsteiner and 2 Scott, the two teams that were about to fold at the end of the season anyway.

Which was very strange.