Chorus UT BB Creak

[Cooper]

Developed a substantial creak in my Chorus UT BB only after 600 miles. I also have TI frame.

Pulled the cranks to inspect and clean. I also called Campy North America for any thoughts.

Campy said that with a TI frame not to use loctite 222 but to use an anti-seize compound and torque to 35 on the external cups. Does anyone disagree with this?

Also, the mechanic who built the bike used a lot of grease on the inside of the cups and conecting bolt. The directions don't say to use any grease in the cups where the bearing rests but Campy said it is ok to use a little bit. Does anyone disagree with that?

Campy also said to never use grease on the connecting bolt.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I'd listen to Campy before asking in a forum.

Cleanliness is an important issue in getting rid of creaks. Don't forget to check your pedals/shoes.

Whatever you do, get plenty of anti-seize compound on the parts meeting the titanium frame. Otherwise the bottom bracket and the titanium will make their own loctite. Forever.

 

[Notso Swift]

Plus 1
If nothing else if you do what they say there can't be any warrenty complaints!
With the anti-sieze, google electrolysis to understand why...

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Developed a substantial creak in my Chorus UT BB only after 600 miles. I also have TI frame.

Pulled the cranks to inspect and clean. I also called Campy North America for any thoughts.

Campy said that with a TI frame not to use loctite 222 but to use an anti-seize compound and torque to 35 on the external cups. Does anyone disagree with this?

Also, the mechanic who built the bike used a lot of grease on the inside of the cups and conecting bolt. The directions don't say to use any grease in the cups where the bearing rests but Campy said it is ok to use a little bit. Does anyone disagree with that?

Campy also said to never use grease on the connecting bolt.

I install many of these.

Use lotsa grease. Inside BB shell, inside BB cups. DO NOT loctite the cups. Make sure the cups are tight.

Use a wee bit of teflon tape onto the cup threads as well. Make sure you use the RH cup clip and the wavy washer. Make sure the bolt(yes grease it) is tightened to spec.

I don't like antisieze because these bearings are not sealed on one side and antisieze and migrtate into the bearings, killing them.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I install many of these.

Use lotsa grease. Inside BB shell, inside BB cups. DO NOT loctite the cups. Make sure the cups are tight.

Use a wee bit of teflon tape onto the cup threads as well. Make sure you use the RH cup clip and the wavy washer. Make sure the bolt(yes grease it) is tightened to spec.

I don't like antisieze because these bearings are not sealed on one side and antisieze and migrtate into the bearings, killing them.

All good advice. I never considered teflon tape before. Good idea. Definitely need to watch out for spreading the anti-seize around too much.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

All good advice. I never considered teflon tape before. Good idea. Definitely need to watch out for spreading the anti-seize around too much.

There are a couple of different grades of teflon tape - the white (very thin) tape is OK, but works it's way aside after a few hundred lilometres, and the creak returns.

I use the yellow (thicker) tape, known to me as "gas-fitters tape". This one does not creep in the threads, so is better for the job with BB threading.
It is the only thread sealant that is permitted (to my knowledge) on threaded pipes in housing & industrial gas supply lines.

 

[ElChingon]

The antisieze should not be applied so it can work its way to the bearings! Coat the BB shell pre-install and coat as in enough to get the threads covered but not so the top of the thread is not free of it. Once installed its not like there's going to be enough space to keep a ton of it between the shell and cup. Then after its installed you wipe any excess off, inside the shell and outside the BB on the frame.

Then don't grease everything, think about it. If you super grease coat everything where will any moisture go if it does gets inside? Make sure there's a free escape route for any moisture though the supplied hole in the BB, don't clog it up with grease. Sure you can apply some grease on the UT axle exterior if you want to keep it shiny and nice.

I agree with campy don't grease the connecting bolt, it needs the loctite to keep from working itself loose. Re-read the install directions if you want to be sure on what you need to do, if you do grease it make sure to have enough money for a taxi cab ride or some other way to get home on a random ride in the future.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

The antisieze should not be applied so it can work its way to the bearings! Coat the BB shell pre-install and coat as in enough to get the threads covered but not so the top of the thread is not free of it. Once installed its not like there's going to be enough space to keep a ton of it between the shell and cup. Then after its installed you wipe any excess off, inside the shell and outside the BB on the frame.

Then don't grease everything, think about it. If you super grease coat everything where will any moisture go if it does gets inside? Make sure there's a free escape route for any moisture though the supplied hole in the BB, don't clog it up with grease. Sure you can apply some grease on the UT axle exterior if you want to keep it shiny and nice.

I agree with campy don't grease the connecting bolt, it needs the loctite to keep from working itself loose. Re-read the install directions if you want to be sure on what you need to do, if you do grease it make sure to have enough money for a taxi cab ride or some other way to get home on a random ride in the future.

Balderdash. I have been installing these bolts with grease since they were introduced in 2007 and I have never had one come loose. I guess after installing maybe 300 or so I have enough 'evidence' to say this method works.

Did you loctite crank bolts on square taper crankbolts? How about on octastink? Loctite or grease?

Didn't think so.

 

[oldborn]

Teflon tape, not in my mind for a zillion years. I will try that for sure.
Here people sometimes use hemp? (I know, but not that one) plant for same things;plumbing, etc.
Someone has idea how hemp it would works at BB?

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Teflon tape, not in my mind for a zillion years. I will try that for sure.
Here people sometimes use hemp? (I know, but not that one) plant for same things;plumbing, etc.
Someone has idea how hemp it would works at BB?

I remember some of the plumbing at my parent's place had hemp/sisal in the threads - works well if there is water to make it swell, don't think it would work all that well in a BB. Also the threads are tighter & smaller, so may be difficult to get the hemp in the threads well.

My understanding of the hemp was as a filler because the threads were so coarse and rough you could not stop them leaking - the hemp would swell when wet, and seal the threads.

 

[Black Dog]

Creaking in the BB is not uncommon for Campy UT. I had the problem and solved it with a second wavy washer. I run a Ti bike and use a lot of antiseize on the BB threads and cups and torque them to spec. Lots of grease on the inside of the cups. Lots of grease on the unsealed side of the bearings to keep them alive. Here is a link to the issue:

http://roguemechanic.typepad.com/roguemechanic/2008/09/campagnolo-ul-1.html

 

[ElChingon]

Balderdash. I have been installing these bolts with grease since they were introduced in 2007 and I have never had one come loose. I guess after installing maybe 300 or so I have enough 'evidence' to say this method works.

Many methods work, if anything goes wrong though and they can determine if you used grease, well good luck!

Did you loctite crank bolts on square taper crankbolts? How about on octastink? Loctite or grease?

Didn't think so.

Yes, for the square taper, never owned Octastink. I've never had one work its way loose either, or been so loctighted that I couldn't take it off. I do torque it to spec with a nice torque wrench, that way if something does go wrong Campy can't 2nd guess me, their instructions their refund if it belly's up. So far so good, for my 10-20's of installs.

 

[Cooper]

Balderdash. I have been installing these bolts with grease since they were introduced in 2007 and I have never had one come loose. I guess after installing maybe 300 or so I have enough 'evidence' to say this method works.

Did you loctite crank bolts on square taper crankbolts? How about on octastink? Loctite or grease?

Didn't think so.

Glad greasing that connecting bolt has worked for you. I do have to say that the Campy NA rep. in CA was super adamant about not greasing the connecting bolt. Use Loctite 222 if desired but definitely tighten per spec. and then some.

 

[Cooper]

I'm embarrassed to say that the creak was caused by my carbon FSA seatpost. I never had that happen before. It was weird how it creaked with the slightest pedal stroke. I removed it, cleaned it up, put on some new grease and tightened back up pretty hard. It was torqued per spec before, but apparently that was not enough. It seemed loose.

 

[Cooper]

I reinstalled my crank. I decided to not grease the inside of the cups and left it dry. We will see what happens. BTW, the shop loctite the the cups so I never removed them from the frame.

Campy said it was not necessary to grease the inside of the cups but wouldn't hurt either if used sparingly. Generally, I'm not much of a grease guy. Other than bearings, the BB shell and seatpost, I don't use it. And when I do I use very little.

So far it hasn't bit me in the but yet.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I reinstalled my crank. I decided to not grease the inside of the cups and left it dry. We will see what happens. BTW, the shop loctite the the cups so I never removed them from the frame.

Campy said it was not necessary to grease the inside of the cups but wouldn't hurt either if used sparingly. Generally, I'm not much of a grease guy. Other than bearings, the BB shell and seatpost, I don't use it. And when I do I use very little.

So far it hasn't bit me in the but yet.

Why would grease be a bad thing inside a cup where the bearing is sized so that it easily can be slid into the cup? Add some movement of the bearing and the cup and that's where a lot of noise from UT cranks comes from. AND using loctite for aluminum cups in aluminum, ti or steel cups aks for them to be bonded to there after a wee bit of corrosion. WHY you use grease, to prevent same. Grease prevented other types of BB cups from siezing into a frame, not sure why you think UT cups are any different, need 'glue' to hold them in rather than grease and torque.

 

[FignonLeGrand]

Creaking in the BB is not uncommon for Campy UT. I had the problem and solved it with a second wavy washer. I run a Ti bike and use a lot of antiseize on the BB threads and cups and torque them to spec. Lots of grease on the inside of the cups. Lots of grease on the unsealed side of the bearings to keep them alive. Here is a link to the issue:

http://roguemechanic.typepad.com/roguemechanic/2008/09/campagnolo-ul-1.html

This is one theory on creaking which seems to attribute this as a campag problem, but isnt this a problem which many modern light weight external bearing cranksets exhibit? I have seen many bikes with many brands creaking away. Modern super light hollow parts seem to suffer from far more creaking which is exacerbated by super light frames.

Personally I am not sure I do buy that there is a design flaw in campag per se. I have had a 10 and 11 speed run no problem, as I have an FSA. However have had another FSA and a truvatv one which both creaked.

 

[Black Dog]

This is one theory on creaking which seems to attribute this as a campag problem, but isnt this a problem which many modern light weight external bearing cranksets exhibit? I have seen many bikes with many brands creaking away. Modern super light hollow parts seem to suffer from far more creaking which is exacerbated by super light frames.

Personally I am not sure I do buy that there is a design flaw in campag per se. I have had a 10 and 11 speed run no problem, as I have an FSA. However have had another FSA and a truvatv one which both creaked.

It is not a campy problem at all. If manufacturers made a 68mm bb actually 68mm and not more or less there is no problem. Because UT has no length adjustment for bearing preload they had to build in some wiggle room to account for over or undersized BB widths. This is the same for the 70mm Italian standard.If the BB is to narrow then there is too much play and it can cause creaking. A second wavy washer does the trick as will adding some spacers between the cup and BB face.