http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/tubs-vs-clinchers-which-are-faster-45671/
Clinchers win. Tony Martin got it right.
Clinchers win. Tony Martin got it right.
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clinchers v tubs Clinchers win
- Thread starter ray j willings
- Start date
- Oct 10, 2015
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Shouldn't this be in the Gear sub-forum?ray j willings said:
Anyway, for those who don't want to sit through the video, here are the brief results:
TT test - 9.7 miles @305 watts - clinchers were 12 seconds faster (23:36)
Hill test - 14% peak gradient - clinchers were 4 seconds faster (4:56)
Sprint test - a series of approx 0:10 efforts. Tubulars were considered to offer slightly better acceleration at the start of the sprint.
He seemed very diligent in his approach, doing his best to eliminate as many variables as possible. I thought his analysis was very well presented as well. I'll leave it to others to stake out their territory on this topic.
He may well have done 'his best' to eliminate variables, but unfortunately, that's simply not possible for 1 run on open roads.
Drag accounts for 80% of resistance at his speeds. It only takes a very slight change in wind direction or speed, to add or subtract a few seconds.
Power meters also are not 100% accurate. Even if you manage to average the same over the 2 runs, was it the same in the same places? And even allowing for only 1% error, you are already 3W or more out.
Sorry, but the jury's still out on this one....!
Drag accounts for 80% of resistance at his speeds. It only takes a very slight change in wind direction or speed, to add or subtract a few seconds.
Power meters also are not 100% accurate. Even if you manage to average the same over the 2 runs, was it the same in the same places? And even allowing for only 1% error, you are already 3W or more out.
Sorry, but the jury's still out on this one....!
- Jul 18, 2010
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Pros don't ride tubulars purely for the low rolling resistance, they also ride them because they offer better security than clinchers in the event of a puncture, have a wider range of working pressures, and are less prone to "snake bite" punctures on rough tarmac and cobbles. And because someone else is hired to glue them on.
- Jul 23, 2009
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ray j willings said:
Except 'speed' isn't why tubulars are still the overwhelming choice of the professional peloton as well as cyclocross.
Comfort, safety, cornering ability, weight(rim/tire combo), no pinch flats. The advantages far outweigh 'losing' a few seconds, which is only true 'all things being equal', and they never are.
And for right above, yup, clinchers are for nancys.
- Jul 18, 2010
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- Oct 10, 2015
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- Jul 23, 2009
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Jacques de Molay said:
Fify
I am happy to glue my own tubulars as I did it for years. I would love to ride tubulars if I had support vehicles following me, unfortunately I don't so I am stuck with clinchers.
Re: Re:
Yes I used to in Ironman but getting a glued tyre off on the roadside is hard work, that and carrying a spare tyre is difficult with all the other things I have to carry.
Like I said if I had a support vehicle I would ride tubulars but I am a mere mortal so clinchers are more convenient.
42x16ss said:
Yes I used to in Ironman but getting a glued tyre off on the roadside is hard work, that and carrying a spare tyre is difficult with all the other things I have to carry.
Like I said if I had a support vehicle I would ride tubulars but I am a mere mortal so clinchers are more convenient.
- Jul 23, 2009
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Re: Re:
In triathlon racing, with essentially no neutral support, yup, clinchers are the ticket. The 'bike' just attaches the swim to the run, where the race is won or lost anyway.
But normal, day to day riding, I get very few punctures(ride tubulars all the time). Carry a preglued spare, treat the tubies with a sealant(I use Orange Seal). The advantages of tubulars, far outweigh the disadvantages. IMHO.
Lynton said:
In triathlon racing, with essentially no neutral support, yup, clinchers are the ticket. The 'bike' just attaches the swim to the run, where the race is won or lost anyway.
But normal, day to day riding, I get very few punctures(ride tubulars all the time). Carry a preglued spare, treat the tubies with a sealant(I use Orange Seal). The advantages of tubulars, far outweigh the disadvantages. IMHO.
Re: Re:
Wash your mouth out. In triathlons (except the drafting legal UCI races) the bike is a significant factor. I used to win many events based on a strong bike leg and then just hold the lead with a reasonable run, I was a crap swimmer.
Bustedknuckle said:
Wash your mouth out. In triathlons (except the drafting legal UCI races) the bike is a significant factor. I used to win many events based on a strong bike leg and then just hold the lead with a reasonable run, I was a crap swimmer.
- Jul 23, 2009
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Nope, cyclist. Road racing with my strength being the time trial. I only changed to triathlon as it was better for all round fitness and strength whilst I was in the army.
In all tri's my swim was crap and normally exited in the mid to lower section of the field, my bike was devastating and I was often first off the bike and then held on in the run. That is proper non drafting events of course.
Not sure why you think I was a runner.
In all tri's my swim was crap and normally exited in the mid to lower section of the field, my bike was devastating and I was often first off the bike and then held on in the run. That is proper non drafting events of course.
Not sure why you think I was a runner.
- Jul 23, 2009
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Re:
Because almost no triathlete's started life as cyclists. Most are swimmers, and then runners.
Lynton said:
Because almost no triathlete's started life as cyclists. Most are swimmers, and then runners.
Re: Re:
Definitely not an observation I have made of the many people that I know in the sport. I would say a large proportion do come from a cycling background, many more than those from a swimming background. In non drafting events considerable advantages are gained on the bike. Anyway way off topic.
Bustedknuckle said:
Definitely not an observation I have made of the many people that I know in the sport. I would say a large proportion do come from a cycling background, many more than those from a swimming background. In non drafting events considerable advantages are gained on the bike. Anyway way off topic.
- May 14, 2011
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Re: Re:
Wrong. I did BMX at school. Started road riding and racing in the 80s. Then started Tris - I was a strong cyclist who learned to run and swim. I had a similar background to Lynton - "Road racing was my strength being the time trial. I only changed to triathlon as it was better for all round fitness". I went back to road racing as a Vet.
As for clinchers / tubulars, clincher technology has improved greatly but I still think Tubulars win and the choice of today's peloton suggests that still holds true. There is more to a fast tyre than rolling resistance tested in labs, not the real world. Combined rim / tyre / tube weight is lower with tubulars. I rode exclusively on tubulars until about 1991 when I started using clinchers for training - but still raced on Tubulars - Continentals I recall. Changing a tubular was quicker than a clincher once you knew what you were doing.
Bustedknuckle said:
Wrong. I did BMX at school. Started road riding and racing in the 80s. Then started Tris - I was a strong cyclist who learned to run and swim. I had a similar background to Lynton - "Road racing was my strength being the time trial. I only changed to triathlon as it was better for all round fitness". I went back to road racing as a Vet.
As for clinchers / tubulars, clincher technology has improved greatly but I still think Tubulars win and the choice of today's peloton suggests that still holds true. There is more to a fast tyre than rolling resistance tested in labs, not the real world. Combined rim / tyre / tube weight is lower with tubulars. I rode exclusively on tubulars until about 1991 when I started using clinchers for training - but still raced on Tubulars - Continentals I recall. Changing a tubular was quicker than a clincher once you knew what you were doing.
- Jul 23, 2009
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My tubulars are glued on so well it takes quite a while, and the use of tools, to remove them, often separating the base tape.
- May 14, 2011
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Re:
My tubs were glued too. But the trick is not to over apply the glue. I never had a tubular come off and didn't have to use tools - just my fingers. With a tubular you are only replacing the tyre. With clinchers you have to muck around pulling the tyre and being ultra careful you don't pinch the tube. Then you have to put 20psi, check the tyre is seating properly, then if so, pump it up to full pressure. That all wastes time. With a tubular you spend some time carefully aligning the tyre to ensure it is evenly mounted all the way around the rim but generally you don't waste as much time as changing clinchers. The biggest downside of tubulars was they were more puncture prone.
avanti said:
My tubs were glued too. But the trick is not to over apply the glue. I never had a tubular come off and didn't have to use tools - just my fingers. With a tubular you are only replacing the tyre. With clinchers you have to muck around pulling the tyre and being ultra careful you don't pinch the tube. Then you have to put 20psi, check the tyre is seating properly, then if so, pump it up to full pressure. That all wastes time. With a tubular you spend some time carefully aligning the tyre to ensure it is evenly mounted all the way around the rim but generally you don't waste as much time as changing clinchers. The biggest downside of tubulars was they were more puncture prone.
- Mar 10, 2009
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I started out with tubulars in 86. By 89 I was changing to clinchers. In all honestly I was not realizing the differences. I was not cat 1 or even cat 3 to really stretch the clincher technology, never mind the cost. Tubulars were 65 to a hundred bucks and a flat could and usually did mean big $$. I first used clinchers as a training wheel. They did not feel the same and I think I did lose some cornering ability but in general clinchers worked for me. Today I can afford the tires but now the clinchers are as good for almost all conditions except sprinting and weight. Lighter wheels do accelerate faster and deep section clinchers are certainly heavier but some wheels are a lot lighter than others.
Clinchers still are the most practical solution with the fewest compromises. If you really do push the limits of your tires and you are using a good tire then tubs may be for you. Now if I always had a follow vehicle and unlimited budget I think I still would use clinchers more often than tubs but I would use them for super light wheels, CX, and track
Clinchers still are the most practical solution with the fewest compromises. If you really do push the limits of your tires and you are using a good tire then tubs may be for you. Now if I always had a follow vehicle and unlimited budget I think I still would use clinchers more often than tubs but I would use them for super light wheels, CX, and track
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