Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

Page 227 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
I don't know BMJ but maybe dj can jump in:
BMJ is one of the top medical journals. Not quite Lancet or NE JM, but widely respected.

There is just not enough evidence for how delaying the mRNA vaccines effect antibody responses. 3-4 weeks was chosen based on past studies because it worked best for the booster. Why even do phase III trials at all if you are just going to change things on the fly?

I have fewer questions on waiting 12 weeks for the live vaccines like AZ. That was actually beneficial in the data we have. The mRNA vaccines are inherently less immunogenic because they are not alive. You may be losing some memory cells during those extra weeks, which may lead to less antibody. The truth is nobody knows for sure. When my partner got the Pfizer vaccine, the second appt was scheduled at the same time. It is hard enough getting people back in a timely manner without muddying the water about when people should get it again.
 
Reactions: jmdirt and Koronin
BMJ is one of the top medical journals. Not quite Lancet or NE JM, but widely respected.

There is just not enough evidence for how delaying the mRNA vaccines effect antibody responses. 3-4 weeks was chosen based on past studies because it worked best for the booster. Why even do phase III trials at all if you are just going to change things on the fly?

I have fewer questions on waiting 12 weeks for the live vaccines like AZ. That was actually beneficial in the data we have. The mRNA vaccines are inherently less immunogenic because they are not alive. You may be losing some memory cells during those extra weeks, which may lead to less antibody. The truth is nobody knows for sure. When my partner got the Pfizer vaccine, the second appt was scheduled at the same time. It is hard enough getting people back in a timely manner without muddying the water about when people should get it again.
Scheduling an appointment and having the vaccine for that appointment are two different things.
 
4K people are dying a day from COVID here in the USA, do you honestly think that vaccination should be halted? I don't know what happened to this Doctor. And neither does Spivak. The common bond between us is that neither have had access to his medical records.
The FHD & CDC have confirmed the healthy 56 yr old physician had died from an autoimmune disease; "Idiopathic Thrombocytopenic Purpura." Spivak from JH says it's a "medical certainty" that the Covid vaccine caused the ITP. Spivak further says that this could happen again and notes that ITP is associated with other vaccines. So, IMO, based on this it should be halted and investigated thoroughly by the CDC & FDH regardless of the PR statement & lackadaisical attitude by Pfizer.

And herein lies the problem: The Covid vaccines comes with risks - it's not 100% guaranteed safe. It was rushed to market and approved under emergency authorization only. Essentially, what we're witnessing now is a post-market clinical trial. And that being said, U.S. workers now support businesses mandating the vaccine:


This vaccine shouldn't be mandated anywhere. It should be informed consent and employees should be given the freedom to evaluate the risks vs benefits profile and reach a personal decision for themselves.
 
Last edited:
"Good News: Natural Immunity to the Coronavirus May Last Years, study suggests:"


"Scientists studied the blood of 180 volunteers who had confirmed covid-19, including from samples taken over six months post-infection. Levels of antibodies to the virus took a small dip following infection but remained stable after that for up to eight months in most people. T cells specific to the virus also declined a bit after three months but again remained at steady levels afterward. Meanwhile, memory B cells, which help the immune system wake up in response to a familiar threat and create more antibodies when needed, were actually more abundant at the six-month mark than at one month. That’s especially encouraging, because these B cells are crucial to longer-term immunity, the kind that lasts for years."
 
The math in the US is hard to take,less than 15% of the population has been exposed and very,very few vaccinated. Hospitals strained and possible peak after anticipated surge after holidays. 396,000+ dead.
But I think that the real puzzle is the rest of the world,why would Korea, Germany,Brazil,France,China and Russia report on the virus and differing degrees of lock down, infection,death..so sure it may be worth discussions on Pfizers vaccine effectiveness, but why? I really see the events of the past few days as more of the same. So as vaccines are introduced ,data on mask use,effectiveness, death,hospitalization,a reasonable level of doubt,level of question, pretty normal.
if Americans continue to feel exceptional,continue to bring everything to a level of world wide conspiracy, this pandemic is going to last years longer than necessary.
travel and mask use, gatherings of all sizes the science is proven, none of it was ever portrayed as a cure,just a predictable slow down in everything bad.
Yesterday I listened to a doctor explain the vaccine eligibility criteria..he said 65 and older easy to establish who that is, when team Trump was approached about the incredible burden of who and what an "essential worker" was and how to verify it..super complicated,expensive and time consuming, he said that feds said basically " work it out ".
44% of all Covid deaths in San Diego classified in Latino population,they only make up 34% of the population..
 
Reactions: jmdirt and Koronin
That the other country who has done a great job of messing the entire thing up is also still messing things up? Nope, not at all. It's seems there are people in both countries that don't want the vaccination to work.
I sure hope you're not under the impression that the US and the UK are the only countries doing a less than stellar job of handling the pandemic.
 
It looks like the british mutation has been around in Europe for months.
That could explains why the last lockdowns haven't been as effective (they also haven't been nearly as strict as the first one, tbf).
I can understand extending the active lockdowns for 2 or even 3 more weeks, but even more radical measures right now seems like a bit of an overreaction.
Mandatory ffp2 masks like in Bavaria sounds a bit stupid, because most people won't use them the right way. You have to change them after maximum 8 hours, needs to be clean shaplved for them to be effective and once they are a bit wet they are no longer effective. People already reuse masks way too often and too long, so what do you think it's gonna happen if you have to wear more expensive masks? I'm pretty sceptical about them being actually an improvent, the average joe won't use them the right way.
 
The FHD & CDC have confirmed the healthy 56 yr old physician had died from an autoimmune disease; "Idiopathic Thrombocytopenic Purpura." Spivak from JH says it's a "medical certainty" that the Covid vaccine caused the ITP. Spivak further says that this could happen again and notes that ITP is associated with other vaccines. So, IMO, based on this it should be halted and investigated thoroughly by the CDC & FDH regardless of the PR statement & lackadaisical attitude by Pfizer.

And herein lies the problem: The Covid vaccines comes with risks - it's not 100% guaranteed safe. It was rushed to market and approved under emergency authorization only. Essentially, what we're witnessing now is a post-market clinical trial. And that being said, U.S. workers now support businesses mandating the vaccine:


This vaccine shouldn't be mandated anywhere. It should be informed consent and employees should be given the freedom to evaluate the risks vs benefits profile and reach a personal decision for themselves.
You should look up what idiopathic means. Basically denotes a condition with an unknown cause. Yes.. unknown cause. I think this article lays out the arguments well. But like me and spivak, he has not had access to the medical records, so be aware that these are mostly speculation.

The key point is this occurs in 16 people a day in the USA. Despite what Nomad thinks, ITP has numerous suspected triggers, including viral infections. The only American killed by Zika was killed by ITP. So, being a healthy person is not a guarantee that you won't develop this condition. Beyond what is stated in the article, the timing is a red flag for me. You don't develop antibodies with in 3 days of getting a vaccine. So the notion that auto-antibodies generated by a vaccine could deplete a person's platelets within 3 days does not seem likely to me. That is my speculation FWIW.

Vaccines should not be mandated based on an EUA. It is a different story if it achieves full approval which will take into account adverse effects. That you think vaccination should be halted indicates that you don't understand what the basis of an EUA is. The question is whether the potential benefit outweighs the potential risk. Given the relatively few serious adverse effects of the vaccines compared with the ~550k who died from Covid in the USA last year and there is no debate. If you don't want the vaccine, don't take it. But please spare us these patently weak justifications to your general antivax platform.
 
I think most of the information here is pretty good. It's a little different in the US, where we don't have anything organized or centralized. Everyone doesn't have a baseline of care,millions are completely uninsured,medical records are based on the mood of the doctor and \or administrative staff.
We have a pretty big land mass, half the population has publicly proclaimed not to adopt any measures to stop the spread. Until very recently the federal government was the major player in misinformation.
Multiple vaccines, mass infections and those released from hospitals after successfully completing treatment and better available treatment is all good news..so yes I agree with existing problems w the Pfizer vaccine, we can only hope that it's significance will only diminish as more things come online.
I don't think people inside and outside the US understand that 100's of key government health positions are simply unfilled. Some key health jobs were eliminated..before and during the pandemic. Others employed in public health w no experience.
 
Reactions: jmdirt and Koronin
Oh and then there's this: Azar confirmed there are no "reserve" doses of vaccine to follow the initial doses given to citizens. No wonder the WH didn't want the Warpedspuds to cooperate with the incoming President's planning for increased vaccinations. I guess JmDirt was correct: "Scheduling an appointment and having the vaccine for that appointment are two different things." How many folks here would think that this level of political deception is criminal? And the outgoing weasel wants to throw himself a big, military-style farewell on the same day as the Inauguration. Maybe he'll have Air Force One do a flyover so he can compare crowd size on last time. "Look! There are less people at the "stealers" inauguration than at last week's Patriot meeting at the Capital. I keep winning!"
 
Reactions: jmdirt

Chris Gadsden

BANNED
Oct 28, 2019
131
287
1,230
Oh and then there's this: Azar confirmed there are no "reserve" doses of vaccine to follow the initial doses given to citizens. No wonder the WH didn't want the Warpedspuds to cooperate with the incoming President's planning for increased vaccinations. I guess JmDirt was correct: "Scheduling an appointment and having the vaccine for that appointment are two different things." How many folks here would think that this level of political deception is criminal? And the outgoing weasel wants to throw himself a big, military-style farewell on the same day as the Inauguration. Maybe he'll have Air Force One do a flyover so he can compare crowd size on last time. "Look! There are less people at the "stealers" inauguration than at last week's Patriot meeting at the Capital. I keep winning!"
Don’t worry about it. Everything is solved. We now have a 100 million vaccination goal in 100 days Grandiose Plan.

I can only wonder - when Biden gets nowhere near that number - if the ‘criminal negligence’ talk will gain steam. I mean, I know it won’t, but it will be noteworthy the excuses you and others come up with.

Biden details sweeping effort to vaccinate 100m Americans in 100 days

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/15/biden-coronavirus-pandemic-covid-vaccination-plan
 

Chris Gadsden

BANNED
Oct 28, 2019
131
287
1,230
I think, if I were extremely reactionary, I‘d say the results were knowable and those making the decisions to kill two school years and the purposeful sacrificing of a generation of kids is probably the highest level of criminality of any Covid decision made to date.

I mean, we can certainly conclude that school union thugs don’t give two shakes about kids or the product they produce. But is it criminal?

So weird to not to see a couple of you not agonizing over this... but then nobody is here is, ya know, surprised.

RESULTS: Over 9 weeks, 11 participating school districts had more than 90,000 students and staff attend school in-person; of these, there were 773 community-acquired SARS-CoV-2 infections documented by molecular testing. Through contact tracing, NC health department staff determined an additional 32 infections were acquired within schools. No instances of child-to- adult transmission of SARS-CoV-2 were reported within schools.

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/early/2021/01/06/peds.2020-048090.full.pdf



I mean, so what if a whole generation of already disadvantaged kids are sacrificed for the reset.
 

Chris Gadsden

BANNED
Oct 28, 2019
131
287
1,230
We are already close to a million doses a day. 100 in 100 is way too small a goal.
200 million then?

Here’s the deal: The more people we vaccinate, the faster we do it, the sooner we can save lives and put this pandemic behind us and get back to our lives and loved ones,” Biden said Thursday

Safe to say Biden and Cuomo and Newsom are all not on the same page. I mean, where is the equity to be found in Biden’s comments? Just Scandalous.
 
200 million then?
let's just address your findings
You left out the important part
400,000+ dead
The schools and the kids inside them are off because the promised testing and prevention measures promised were never delivered.
The vaccine doses and distribution that were promised and never delivered.
The daily information, consistent,constant,reliable public messaging was just not done. Even quacks like Dr.Atlas have flown the coop. All of the public safety jobs were never permanently filled with qualified professionals.
some components of the Covid 19 federal response never had a chance, multiple unqualified,examples like Homeland Security..8 people have had the job,now again nobody is filling the billet.
there has been a stark contrast in plans and promises in the last @5 weeks, with the biggest obvious differences, details, names of who is going to what,when and using what methodology. Promises and plans still are not guaranteed, but having a plan,professional personnel is a welcome change.
only just a few deadly hours more of the clown show, the circus will pack up and perform in court rooms,ice rinks and Palm Beach..
Ask today, Was there Covid anything coming from the White House? No..just news about parties,pardons and pouting
 
Reactions: jmdirt

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts