Cortisone use and Dr. Ferrari

[patswana]

All vitriol aside, how do you suppose JB has been able to attract such talent over the years? If he were such a piece of (fill in the blank), then would the riders in the peleton not know this and steer clear?

Do you think JB being at RadioShack or Shack (whatever they are going to call it) will have one bit of trouble attracting and fielding a team at the very top end of the sport?

Once again, the perception of the folks on this forum and the perception of the folks actually involved in the sport are (seemingly) very different.

You don't think it could be something to do with the exclusivity contract his teams had with Dr Ferrari? Riders want to win. One team has the best doping system. That team keeps on winning even against teams with confirmed systematic doping. Wake up and smell the roses.

 

[Anonymous]

You don't think it could be something to do with the exclusivity contract his teams had with Dr Ferrari? Riders want to win. One team has the best doping system. That team keeps on winning even against teams with confirmed systematic doping. Wake up and smell the roses.

I think it's common knowledge that LA worked with Ferrari but it's quite a leap to get to the conclusions you have made. So, prove it.

 

[B.Rasmussen]

There's only 1 correct place to discuss the services of Dr. Ferrari, and that's the clinic. I don't say this to play the forum police, but it would be silly for you guys to get banned because of this.

 

[TheArbiter]

Armstrong has been dsiliked in France since 1999 when he was caught lying about his famous TUE. So he was since that day seen as a liar.

Oh, okay.

Probably that story was never reported in USA but Armstrong was questioned on a rest day about the use of EPO linked to his cancer. He said that he had no TUE neither EPO nor other medicine. 2 days later, he had the famous positive test for corticoid cleared by a backdated TUE.
So it was disliked more for his multiple lies than his victories.
How many victories did he have in 1999?

Cortisoid steroids have never been used by cyclists - there is no benefit for them - which is why nobody but internet loons still cite this incident. It wasn't even declared a positive test because the levels were so low - entirely consistent with a cream. I'm sure French people are intelligent enough to know that.

 

[Digger]

Cortisoid steroids have never been used by cyclists - there is no benefit for them - which is why nobody but internet loons still cite this incident. It wasn't even declared a positive test because the levels were so low - entirely consistent with a cream. I'm sure French people are intelligent enough to know that.

Are you serious?

 

[poupou]

Cortisoid steroids have never been used by cyclists - there is no benefit for them - which is why nobody but internet loons still cite this incident. It wasn't even declared a positive test because the levels were so low - entirely consistent with a cream. I'm sure French people are intelligent enough to know that.

So, could you explain us why he needed a TUE to clear a non-positive test?

 

[Anonymous]

So, could you explain us why he needed a TUE to clear a non-positive test?

Ouch..................

 

[scribe]

So, could you explain us why he needed a TUE to clear a non-positive test?

Didn't he have a pain in his ****?

 

[Eva Maria]

Cortisoid steroids have never been used by cyclists - there is no benefit for them -

Are you for real?

I can understand why your century riding friends do not use them but the Pro sport has been using them for decades

 

[patswana]

I think it's common knowledge that LA worked with Ferrari but it's quite a leap to get to the conclusions you have made. So, prove it.

This kind of information is anywhere you care to look at in terms of cycling media. It's even in Sports Illustrated.

 

[Eva Maria]

I think it's common knowledge that LA worked with Ferrari but it's quite a leap to get to the conclusions you have made. So, prove it.

The exclusivity arrangement is detailed in "Lance Armstrong's War" By Coyle. Ferrari himself told this to the Author. There are plenty of books about systematic doping. "Breaking the Chain" is a good place to start.

 

[Anonymous]

The exclusivity arrangement is detailed in "Lance Armstrong's War" By Coyle. Ferrari himself told this to the Author. There are plenty of books about systematic doping. "Breaking the Chain" is a good place to start.

I have Coyle's book. And I've read it. Coyle was present (detailed in the book) for training sessions involving Hincapie, Landis and LA where the riders were doing LT hill-repeats, getting their fingers pricked so Ferrari could measure Lactic Acid build up at threshold (how dare that monster do something so eeeevil?). I think it's fairly well established Ferrari was advising the team at that time. How long has it been since LA stopped working with Ferrari? How many GT's has JB's riders/teams won since that arrangement was dissolved?

BTW, it is not unusual for a team to have an exclusive relationship with advisors, physio's, physicians, etc. Allen Lim used to work for Phonak with Landis. So how does Lim escape your guilt by association? Lim is currently working for Garmin and is an advisor to Jonathan Vaughters and I don't think he works for any other team. Jeff Spencer worked exclusively with LA during his run. Does that make him part of the mass conspiracy?

Now if it's going to argued that Ferrari's still in the picture with JB then I don't think it's too much to ask for some evidence of an ongoing relationship. Is there any??

 

[BroDeal]

I have Coyle's book. And I've read it. Coyle was present (detailed in the book) for training sessions involving Hincapie, Landis and LA where the riders were doing LT hill-repeats, getting their fingers pricked so Ferrari could measure Lactic Acid build up at threshold (how dare that monster do something so eeeevil?). I think it's fairly well established Ferrari was advising the team at that time. How long has it been since LA stopped working with Ferrari? How many GT's has JB's riders/teams won since that arrangement was dissolved?

BTW, it is not unusual for a team to have an exclusive relationship with advisors, physio's, physicians, etc. Allen Lim used to work for Phonak with Landis. So how does Lim escape your guilt by association? Lim is currently working for Garmin and is an advisor to Jonathan Vaughters and I don't think he works for any other team. Jeff Spencer worked exclusively with LA during his run. Does that make him part of the mass conspiracy?

Now if it's going to argued that Ferrari's still in the picture with JB then I don't think it's too much to ask for some evidence of an ongoing relationship. Is there any??

Unbelievable!!!!!!!

This should go to Da Clinc, where we can discuss how utterly laughable it is that someone would innocently sign the most notorious dope doctor in the world to an exclusive contract.

 

[Anonymous]

Unbelievable!!!!!!!

This should go to Da Clinc, where we can discuss how utterly laughable it is that someone would innocently sign the most notorious dope doctor in the world to an exclusive contract.

So I take it you can't produce any evidence of a current ongoing relationship between Ferrari and Bruyneel?

 

[Eva Maria]

I have Coyle's book. And I've read it. Coyle was present (detailed in the book) for training sessions involving Hincapie, Landis and LA where the riders were doing LT hill-repeats, getting their fingers pricked so Ferrari could measure Lactic Acid build up at threshold (how dare that monster do something so eeeevil?). I think it's fairly well established Ferrari was advising the team at that time. How long has it been since LA stopped working with Ferrari? How many GT's has JB's riders/teams won since that arrangement was dissolved?

BTW, it is not unusual for a team to have an exclusive relationship with advisors, physio's, physicians, etc. Allen Lim used to work for Phonak with Landis. So how does Lim escape your guilt by association? Lim is currently working for Garmin and is an advisor to Jonathan Vaughters and I don't think he works for any other team. Jeff Spencer worked exclusively with LA during his run. Does that make him part of the mass conspiracy?

Now if it's going to argued that Ferrari's still in the picture with JB then I don't think it's too much to ask for some evidence of an ongoing relationship. Is there any??

You may want to actually read Coyle's book. He talks about how even after the press release saying they cut ties Ferrari still stayed at the same hotel he was staying, just around the corner from Armstrong's apartment in Girona. Armstrong, Levi,and Ferrari were all spotted staying at the same Parador and training in the Canaries.

Here is a nice picture of Popo, Danielson, Sinkewitz, Gasperatto, and friends training with Ferrari (Black T-Shirt), years after they said they severed ties.

Funny how Armstrong recently said the Ferrari was a close family friend, yet when Franco Pellizotti and Vincenzo Nibali are linked with him they file an anti-defamation suit.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pellizotti-and-nibali-deny-working-with-ferrari

 

[scribe]

Is that a bag of dope in that guy's fist?

 

[Anonymous]

You may want to actually read Coyle's book. He talks about how even after the press release saying they cut ties Ferrari still stayed at the same hotel he was staying, just around the corner from Armstrong's apartment in Girona. Armstrong, Levi,and Ferrari were all spotted staying at the same Parador and training in the Canaries.

Here is a nice picture of Popo, Danielson, Sinkewitz, Gasperatto, and friends training with Ferrari (Black T-Shirt), years after they said they severed ties.

Funny how Armstrong recently said the Ferrari was a close family friend, yet when Franco Pellizotti and Vincenzo Nibali are linked with him they file an anti-defamation suit.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pellizotti-and-nibali-deny-working-with-ferrari

Look, let's just say Ferrari is the Devil. Are they still working together? It's a pretty straightforward question.

BTW, what about Allen Lim? I think you know he worked with Landis the year he won the TdF. I think you are aware it is common for teams to hire these types of services, no?

 

[scribe]

Chances are very good that few doctors understand the competitive physiology of competive cycling better than likes of Dr Ferrari. If he can practice medicine with cyclists within the boundaries of established rules of cycling, I don't see what is wrong with a continuing relationship.

 

[Eva Maria]

Look, let's just say Ferrari is the Devil. Are they still working together? It's a pretty straightforward question.

BTW, what about Allen Lim? I think you know he worked with Landis the year he won the TdF. I think you are aware it is common for teams to hire these types of services, no?

It is pretty clear Armstrong and the team lied when they said the severed ties. Ferrari was a key part of his success for 10 years. I see no way he would return to the sport without him.

Ferrari is a Hematologist. He wrote his doctorate on blood, Lim wrote his on power training. They are not the same thing. As you may know Landis worked with Ferrari as well.

Lim was not hired by Landis' team, Phonak, he was hired by a team sponsor to analyze his power files. They had a contentious relationship when they were training, Lim almost did not go to the 2006 Tour. Since the end of Tour they have barely spoken.

 

[Anonymous]

Chances are very good that few doctors understand the competitive physiology of competive cycling better than likes of Dr Ferrari. If he can practice medicine with cyclists within the boundaries of established rules of cycling, I don't see what is wrong with a continuing relationship.

Scribe, you know how some are on this forum. What, to some, would be a reasonable observation (above) will be equated by others to be throwing gasoline on a raging fire. I'm sure Eva will have something choice to say...

 

[Anonymous]

Chances are very good that few doctors understand the competitive physiology of competive cycling better than likes of Dr Ferrari. If he can practice medicine with cyclists within the boundaries of established rules of cycling, I don't see what is wrong with a continuing relationship.

Problem is, that is not what he does, and anyone associated with cycling who says otherwise is either willfully ignorant or lying.

 

[Eva Maria]

Chances are very good that few doctors understand the competitive physiology of competive cycling better than likes of Dr Ferrari. If he can practice medicine with cyclists within the boundaries of established rules of cycling, I don't see what is wrong with a continuing relationship.

If you read his website it is clear his knowledge of the training and racing side of the sport is limited. It is funny sometimes to read him try to twist his BS. On the pharmacutical side he has few peers, but I would put Cheechini or Van Diemen ahead of him on the training side.

 

[Anonymous]

It is pretty clear Armstrong and the team lied when they said the severed ties. Ferrari was a key part of his success for 10 years. I see no way he would return to the sport without him.

Ferrari is a Hematologist. He wrote his doctorate on blood, Lim wrote his on power training. They are not the same thing. As you may know Landis worked with Ferrari as well.

Lim was not hired by Landis' team, Phonak, he was hired by a team sponsor to analyze his power files. They had a contentious relationship when they were training, Lim almost did not go to the 2006 Tour. Since the end of Tour they have barely spoken.

You tend to paint with a broad brush. It seems as though just knowing and working with Landis would be enough to convict Lim in your mind. You seem very willing to do that with others. For someone who did not get along with Landis, Mr. Lim was very defensive of Landis saying (going from memory here) something about Landis's power file for that fateful day being nothing way out of the ordinary and he had several similar files for Landis during hard training days. Does not prove much either way and I don't know either of them and I suspect you don't either.

Hematologist, physiologist, veterinarian... all have been involved in cycling "programs". Just because Lim does not have his PhD in Hematology does not mean he's clueless. Now, I'm not saying Lim has done anything wrong. As far as I know, guilt by association is about as far as it goes. My point is that you are very willing to paint just about anyone with the same brush. You posted a photo earlier with Ferrari in it. I assume everyone in the photo is now on your radar as being suspicious because for you, that is evidence enough.

So, do you have any evidence that Ferrari's still working with JB or not?

 

[scribe]

Personally, I'd avoid the guy because I feel uncomfortable around people with car names.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Personally, I'd avoid the guy because I feel uncomfortable around people with car names.

Hey.... I read that!