Could Cancellara captain a "Sprint" train?

[karlboss]

Was wondering how do you make the most of a rider like Phinney or Cancellara. Cobbles obviously, TTs obviously, but 3 weeks is a long time for a class rider to pop up once or twice. I started to think about a sprint train.

Found an article about Lottos train, and it basically went Bak, Hansen, Sieberg 7w/kg(53kph), Roelandts 11w/kg(63kph), hendersen 17w/kg(73kph), Greipel 20-22w/kg(78kph). (Lotto gave the w/kg i used analytical cycling for approx speeds, from some power files these look like peaks and averages are more like 12w/kg for henderson, 18w/kg for Greipel and then I can only assume a similar pattern for Roelandts. I suspect Bak, Hansen, Sieberg's number to be an average)
What happens if a higher pace is held for longer, say 12w/kg 65kph for the leader about 7.7w/kg for everyone else? If a team could hold something like this would we then see a sprint of Cancellara, Gilberts, phinneys?

PS, yes I'm bored

 

[Swede1]

I think he would be an awesome leadout man. I mean guys like Rogers and Martin were great for HTC so I would have to assume that someone like cancellara has the ability to be great if he tried. I remember reading an article where Michael Barry said someone like Mick Rogers is the ideal leadout man in his mind. That was back in his TT specialty days, so Canc is probably similar.

 

[Archibald]

Was wondering how do you make the most of a rider like Phinney or Cancellara. Cobbles obviously, TTs obviously, but 3 weeks is a long time for a class rider to pop up once or twice. I started to think about a sprint train.

Found an article about Lottos train, and it basically went Bak, Hansen, Sieberg 7w/kg(53kph), Roelandts 11w/kg(63kph), hendersen 17w/kg(73kph), Greipel 20-22w/kg(78kph). (Lotto gave the w/kg i used analytical cycling for approx speeds, from some power files these look like peaks and averages are more like 12w/kg for henderson, 18w/kg for Greipel and then I can only assume a similar pattern for Roelandts. I suspect Bak, Hansen, Sieberg's number to be an average)
What happens if a higher pace is held for longer, say 12w/kg 65kph for the leader about 7.7w/kg for everyone else? If a team could hold something like this would we then see a sprint of Cancellara, Gilberts, phinneys?

PS, yes I'm bored

Tony Martin at HTC

 

[Ferminal]

Was wondering how do you make the most of a rider like Phinney or Cancellara. Cobbles obviously, TTs obviously, but 3 weeks is a long time for a class rider to pop up once or twice. I started to think about a sprint train.

Found an article about Lottos train, and it basically went Bak, Hansen, Sieberg 7w/kg(53kph), Roelandts 11w/kg(63kph), hendersen 17w/kg(73kph), Greipel 20-22w/kg(78kph). (Lotto gave the w/kg i used analytical cycling for approx speeds, from some power files these look like peaks and averages are more like 12w/kg for henderson, 18w/kg for Greipel and then I can only assume a similar pattern for Roelandts. I suspect Bak, Hansen, Sieberg's number to be an average)
What happens if a higher pace is held for longer, say 12w/kg 65kph for the leader about 7.7w/kg for everyone else? If a team could hold something like this would we then see a sprint of Cancellara, Gilberts, phinneys?

PS, yes I'm bored

You usually get this in the Tour already. The leadouts are usually always hard enough that the winner is not just the guy who is fastest over the final 200m but the one with the aerobic capacity to survive the preceding 5000m. One reason why Kittel (chrono background) and Cav (track background) are so good and why you will not see flyers like Guardini winning organised Tour sprints anytime soon. Reality is it's just not possible to make a straight flat road hard enough to kill off the cream of the sprinters. Your train could be Martin, Phinney, Thomas, Cancellara, Boonen and Cav/Kittel would probably still win.

 

[karlboss]

You usually get this in the Tour already. The leadouts are usually always hard enough that the winner is not just the guy who is fastest over the final 200m but the one with the aerobic capacity to survive the preceding 5000m. One reason why Kittel (chrono background) and Cav (track background) are so good and why you will not see flyers like Guardini winning organised Tour sprints anytime soon. Reality is it's just not possible to make a straight flat road hard enough to kill off the cream of the sprinters. Your train could be Martin, Phinney, Thomas, Cancellara, Boonen and Cav/Kittel would probably still win.

There is a difference between 10km at 55kph 1km at 65kph and 500 at 70kph and 200 at 75kph, to 3 km at 65 to 70 kph.

Could these riders drop Cav in a TTT if that were their goal, no acceleration just constant high tempo?

I guess it's a question of how high would the speed need to be for how long to drop or ruin Cav's sprint, is it possible(you answered this, I'm still not sure)?

 

[42x16ss]

Good pursuiters/prologuers are the way to go IMO. Guys like Phinney, Hepburn, '08 Wiggo, Cancellara, Thomas and Renshaw are examples. Guys with a long, steady turn of speed

 

[ustabe]

PS, yes I'm bored

I can tell.

Mainly, maintaining a team of assorted classics winners, time trialists, boradeurs, plus a top level sprinter, is expensive.

Second, the sprint finish is only the consolation prize for the lack of a successful breakaway. Fans would rather see a rider like Cancellara break away and hold on to the yellow jersey for a few days before the mountains than watch him lead out a sprinter.

Third, fans would rather watch a sprint won by cunning and resourcefulness than one won by a merely superior leadout train. Watching sprinters like Peter Sagan and Robbie McEwen is more fun than watching Mark Cavendish.

So the question isn't "How?" but "Why?"

 

[Broth3r]

You make the most of Cance and Phinney by not putting them on a train and set them loose on the final KMs to leave sprinters wondering about their choice of career.

 

[murali]

Cancellara can be the ideal leadout man to pull the team from km10 to km5-4.
But a guy like Cancellara is better off doing something that gilbert did yest. Go with a high tempo, and if people are not able to hold on to your wheels, leave them and convert to a long distance attack.

Comparing with the HTC team doesn't make sense. Rogers had only 2 GC wins(andalucia and california) in 2010. He was not meant to go for stage wins in TdF. Martin is a TT specialist. HTC team had a well-defined role for each and every rider, and they knew how to rake in victories and podium finishes.

Cancellara is an entirely different breed. having him do a lead-out is very good, if the team has a cav-like sprinter. But even such a team should be using him only as an extra lead-out man for catching a long break; while he can attempt for what he does best; and that is attacking and winning stages alone.

 

[OfficialFlandrien]

First of all, it's my first message so, Hi everybody!!

Well, the problem is that I can't see Cancellara doing this type of work. He would try to attack and win if he had enough energy.

PS:Sorry If I make any mistake with my English, I'm Spanish and I'm still trying to improve as much as I can

 

[Cyivel]

First of all, it's my first message so, Hi everybody!!

Well, the problem is that I can't see Cancellara doing this type of work. He would try to attack and win if he had enough energy.

PS:Sorry If I make any mistake with my English, I'm Spanish and I'm still trying to improve as much as I can

Welcome brother.

 

[MatParker117]

Easily had he joined Sky in 2011 he probably would of been one of the last men in Cav's leadout.