Coyle's new stance on Lance

[acoggan]

http://jap.physiology.org/content/early/2013/03/11/japplphysiol.00213.2013.full.pdf+html

 

[del1962]

http://jap.physiology.org/content/early/2013/03/11/japplphysiol.00213.2013.full.pdf+html

Can you summarise, as you have to subscribe to read it.

 

[mattghg]

The main physiological improvements he [LA] displayed over this seven-year period during which the author was testing him were an improved gross mechanical efficiency and a reduced body weight.

and

it seems unlikely that this cyclist had elevated blood volume at the time of physiological laboratory testing. Furthermore, it is unlikely that an elevated blood volume would improve gross mechanical efficiency as studies that have acutely infused red blood cells into athletes have not reported changes in efficiency measured from open circuit spirometry

but

we can’t be absolutely certain that the improved gross mechanical efficiency and reduced body weight displayed in the subject of the 2005 paper [...] wasn’t somehow influenced by his reported drug use.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Well well well. Whas SCA knocking on his door?

 

[lean mean &green]

call me when ed finds the "missing" data.

 

[Ferminal]

The author’s only knowledge of his use of drugs or performance enhancing
procedures comes from a televised interview when he reported using erythropoietin, red
blood cell reinfusion, testosterone, cortisone and human growth hormone (Oprah Winfrey
Network; January 17 and 18, 2013).

Lance never lies.

Erythropoietin and/or red blood cell reinfusion would seem to be
taken acutely during the competitive season to boost blood volume during a race,
although it is conceivable that erythropoietin could be taken
as a training aid.

Trying to suggest that 1) Off-season isn't peak time for PED use (even though he admits he has no knowledge as to how it's used) and 2) Therefore the results are not any further invalidated because the tests were done off-season.

 

[BroDeal]

Call me when he actually measured Armstrong's weight instead of asking a known liar for it or using "reported" weight.

 

[mattghg]

Trying to suggest that 1) Off-season isn't peak time for PED use (even though he admits he has no knowledge as to how it's used) and 2) Therefore the results are not any further invalidated because the tests were done off-season.

Yeah, this is silly. He probably will want to rely more on the argument that blood-boosting drugs/transfusions don't affect mechanical efficiency.

 

[BroDeal]

.

...although it is conceivable that erythropoietin could be taken...

Conceivable? Like it probably doesn't happen (even though revealed doping schedules are filled with months of EPO use every two or three days) but it probably doesn't? Couldn't this lazy excuse for a scientist have done the slimmest amount of research about EPO use by cyclist (or any other athlete for that matter) before making assumptions?

 

[SundayRider]

The author’s only knowledge of his use of drugs or performance enhancing
procedures comes from a televised interview when he reported using erythropoietin, red
blood cell reinfusion, testosterone, cortisone and human growth hormone (Oprah Winfrey
Network; January 17 and 18, 2013).

I could be wrong but I thought on Oprah, LA only admitted to using transfusions, EPO and testosterone.

 

[Ferminal]

Yeah, this is silly. He probably will want to rely more on the argument that blood-boosting drugs/transfusions don't affect mechanical efficiency.

Agreed, at least he couldn't be picked apart by average cycling fans then

 

[Race Radio]

Coyle is saying that Lance's weight dropped? Really?

I guess he has not seen this paper by Coyle that shows Lance's weight increased 3 kilos from 93 to 99

Hard to keep the Coyle lies straight

Such a fattie

 

[mattghg]

it is unlikely that an elevated blood volume would improve gross mechanical efficiency as studies that have acutely infused red blood cells into athletes have not reported changes in efficiency measured from open circuit spirometry

This is the paper that Coyle cites in support of the claim that Armstrong's blood-boosting probably didn't affect the mechanical efficiency measurements:

http://jap.physiology.org/content/48/4/636.abstract

Does anyone here have the know-how to tell whether or not the paper in question actually supports the claim that 'it is unlikely that an elevated blood volume would improve gross mechanical efficiency'?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Thanks Ed!

Ed's at it again I see...

Nothing like making a mockery of the scientific process just to preserve your career. To be fair, he's probably not the first or last guy to do it.

This sets an awful precedent though of keeping the old data around as somehow, maybe, possibly, legitimate. Which it's not. At all.

Thank's Ed!

Matthg, thanks for that link. I don't read enough of the formal research. BTW, published date 1980. That was probably a hot topic in cycling at the time.
Maximum O2 consumption (VO2max) and running time to exhaustion were significantly increased 24 h postreinfusion (5.11-5.37 l . min-1 and 7.20-9.65 min, respectively) and 7 days postreinfusion.

No wonder blood bags are so popular. It's a 7-day party.

 

[Ferminal]

This is the paper that Coyle cites in support of the claim that Armstrong's blood-boosting probably didn't affect the mechanical efficiency measurements:

http://jap.physiology.org/content/48/4/636.abstract

Does anyone here have the know-how to tell whether or not the paper in question actually supports the claim that 'it is unlikely that an elevated blood volume would improve gross mechanical efficiency'?

This must be one of the first studies on blood "doping" ? 900ml = 5%... does that mean 450ml = 2.5%? Yikes!

Funny, they were tested 16 weeks after transfusion and they were still significantly better!

Anyway, I can't tell you what it says about efficiency as I don't really know what I'm looking for.

 

[Red Dragon]

$20.00 to access an article written about the greatest fraudster in sporting history. I don't think so.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Call me when he actually measured Armstrong's weight instead of asking a known liar for it or using "reported" weight.

Yeah. This smacks of CYA.

I wonder how much Coyle regrets ever even looking at Lance Armstrong.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

This is the paper that Coyle cites in support of the claim that Armstrong's blood-boosting probably didn't affect the mechanical efficiency measurements:

http://jap.physiology.org/content/48/4/636.abstract

Does anyone here have the know-how to tell whether or not the paper in question actually supports the claim that 'it is unlikely that an elevated blood volume would improve gross mechanical efficiency'?

Artificial erythrocythemia causes an increase in gross mechanical efficiency. It's unequivocal:

Live high:train low increases muscle buffer capacity and submaximal cycling efficiency

Acta Physiologica Scandinavica

Volume 173, Issue 3, pages 275–286, November 2001

John Swanson

 

[mattghg]

Artificial erythrocythemia causes an increase in gross mechanical efficiency. It's unequivocal:

Live high:train low increases muscle buffer capacity and submaximal cycling efficiency

Acta Physiologica Scandinavica

Volume 173, Issue 3, pages 275–286, November 2001

John Swanson

Thanks John, that's the kind of info I was after. It seems that Coyle is digging himself an even deeper hole in his attempt to salvage something from his original paper on LA.

Paper that John cited: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-201X.2001.00906.x/full

Although work was maintained, V˙O2peak fell after LHTL [Live High Train Low] (7%, P < 0.05). Submaximal V˙O2 was reduced (4.4%, P < 0.05) and efficiency improved (0.8%, P < 0.05) after LHTL probably because of a shift in fuel utilization.

 

[thehog]

Imagine being cornered by Carmichael and Coyle in a bar. Jezus they’d be talking sh!t all night.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Artificial erythrocythemia causes an increase in gross mechanical efficiency. It's unequivocal:

Live high:train low increases muscle buffer capacity and submaximal cycling efficiency

Acta Physiologica Scandinavica

Volume 173, Issue 3, pages 275–286, November 2001

John Swanson

In other words: it gives you a 'natural high'?

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Look guys, it is and always has been a game of marginal gains. Period. Marginal gains. Get it? Same as yesterday, today, and tomorrow...The drugs don't explain anything...

 

[Scott SoCal]

Imagine being cornered by Carmichael and Coyle in a bar. Jezus they’d be talking sh!t all night.

Agreed.

It might be kind of fun to talk doping with Ferrari tho.

 

[acoggan]

Artificial erythrocythemia causes an increase in gross mechanical efficiency. It's unequivocal

Actually, no one else has been able to reproduce that particular finding - in fact, I don't think Gore et al. have been able to do so either.

(BTW, did you notice the 5th author on that paper?)

 

[acoggan]

This is the paper that Coyle cites in support of the claim that Armstrong's blood-boosting probably didn't affect the mechanical efficiency measurements:

http://jap.physiology.org/content/48/4/636.abstract

Does anyone here have the know-how to tell whether or not the paper in question actually supports the claim that 'it is unlikely that an elevated blood volume would improve gross mechanical efficiency'?

In addition to the maximal exercise testing, the subjects ran for 4 min at a submaximal intensity under all conditions. The VO2 data aren't presented, but at the bottom of page 639/top of page 640 it is stated that "Analysis of the VO2 measurements made during the submaximal run verified that the absolute workload for this run was identical during all conditions."