Critérium du Dauphiné 2023, June 4 - 11

[Red Rick]

Seems like 2023 any time the big 6 get a 10-15 second gap the rest just meekly fold into not cooperating in a chase and horrible group 2 dynamics. Kudos to Vingegaard but the rest of the field, bar Alaphillipe and Carapaz who at least had attacking intent, were dismal.

Thomas even did it in an MTT. Went down 15 seconds and exploded.

 

[Nick2413]

I get there‘s little hope of challenging Vingo in this race, but it’s still aggravating to watch. When Bernal went we saw there was plenty of firepower to catch back up if they actually worked together, and we know he’s not the strongest of the rest. If they had worked a bit and JA drilled the descent it would be a group sprint finish.

 

[postmanhat]

So true.

I so pine for the days when GTs were a more balanced measure of all around abilities.

It's less than two weeks since the Giro finished with a ludicrous amount of TT.

I'd much rather see a return of decisive descents. They're a test of skill and character, rather than just physiology.

 

[Kaptain Kool]

I like how there are posts about riders giving up when one of "the big 6" attacks when one of those 6 has only a single victory this year and it wasn't even solo.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I like how there are posts about riders giving up when one of "the big 6" attacks when one of those 6 has only a single victory this year and it wasn't even solo.

It came against two other "big 6" riders though.

 

[Filippo_3467]

Seems like 2023 any time the big 6 get a 10-15 second gap the rest just meekly fold into not cooperating in a chase and horrible group 2 dynamics. Kudos to Vingegaard but the rest of the field, bar Alaphillipe and Carapaz who at least had attacking intent, were dismal.

No kudos to Carapaz and Alaphilippe as they did a massively stupid thing. Don't think Vinge would have all out attacked if the bottom of the climb was pedaled softer with bagioli and ef pacing the first half of the climb steady but hard enough to keep others from attacking. Next stupid thing from Carapaz was of course to launch Vinge with a massive domestique pull. Like the guys in the classics should have learned (van Aert, van der Poel, Pidcock) with Pogi...if you turn your head and one of the big guys is there you do nothing or your race is over. Just bad tactics today from QS and EF.

Group two dynamics are of course instantly there but thats clear with such a big group without sufficient domestiques. The field behind Vinge is here very close together so no one tried to make a death pull to get separation. Still I think O'Conner, Ciccone, Yates and Hindley looked really good at the climb.

I think the last three stages have all the same dynamic (or should have if teams learned there leassons). You try to win the stage via a breakaway and let Jumbo do all the work. That's it. Alaphilippe wont win tomorrow from the GC group neither will Carapaz. Maybe Ciccone could try for an upset but if you make it hard Vingegaard will win. So a Bagioli, Wright and Shaw need. to be in the break tomorrow. If theres no one within three minutes close in the break I don't think Jumbo will chase hard all day to keeo a 8 to 10 rider break in check. They have there stage wins and GC is wrapped up. No it's time to just not get hurt and keep everyone in shape. For the mountaineous stuff they also have only Valter and Benoot left so also another fact that you maybe don't want to turn van Baarle and Benoot inside-out a few weeks before the Tour against an undangerous breakaway.

 

[Big Doopie]

It's less than two weeks since the Giro finished with a ludicrous amount of TT.

I'd much rather see a return of decisive descents. They're a test of skill and character, rather than just physiology.

Ludicrous? Lol!

How long have you been following cycling?

And all three TTs were the most exciting stages of the entire thing. No one attacks in the mountains if there are scant differences to make up.

GTs are largely boring affairs. And much of that has to do with lack of TT kms and leaving major difficulties to the end - both in an attempt to keep things artificially close. Over and over this has been proven wrong. The giro is simply the last glaring example, where they could have simple ridden the last TT and the entire top 5 would have been the same.

 

[KZD]

Besides the impressive win from Vingegård, I was pleasently surprised to see Johanessen getting third on this stage, it seems that he has over come his recent injuries/illnesses.

Very good to see Bernal finishing in the first group and even attacking in the descent. Bodes well for the next stages and for the rest of the season.

 

[BR2]

No kudos to Carapaz and Alaphilippe as they did a massively stupid thing. Don't think Vinge would have all out attacked if the bottom of the climb was pedaled softer with bagioli and ef pacing the first half of the climb steady but hard enough to keep others from attacking. Next stupid thing from Carapaz was of course to launch Vinge with a massive domestique pull. Like the guys in the classics should have learned (van Aert, van der Poel, Pidcock) with Pogi...if you turn your head and one of the big guys is there you do nothing or your race is over. Just bad tactics today from QS and EF.

Group two dynamics are of course instantly there but thats clear with such a big group without sufficient domestiques. The field behind Vinge is here very close together so no one tried to make a death pull to get separation. Still I think O'Conner, Ciccone, Yates and Hindley looked really good at the climb.

I think the last three stages have all the same dynamic (or should have if teams learned there leassons). You try to win the stage via a breakaway and let Jumbo do all the work. That's it. Alaphilippe wont win tomorrow from the GC group neither will Carapaz. Maybe Ciccone could try for an upset but if you make it hard Vingegaard will win. So a Bagioli, Wright and Shaw need. to be in the break tomorrow. If theres no one within three minutes close in the break I don't think Jumbo will chase hard all day to keeo a 8 to 10 rider break in check. They have there stage wins and GC is wrapped up. No it's time to just not get hurt and keep everyone in shape. For the mountaineous stuff they also have only Valter and Benoot left so also another fact that you maybe don't want to turn van Baarle and Benoot inside-out a few weeks before the Tour against an undangerous breakaway.

Whaaaaaaaaaat -
it's not enough passive racing for you already? You want everybody to give up just immediately and only try in breaks?
If they had soft pedalled it Laporte would probably have won...
No, no, I absolutely disagree. If you don't attack you've lost already, both the race and my heart. If you attack you at least have a small chance to win the race, and a big one to win my heart.

Alaphilippe
Basically the whole EF team now
Jumbots

 

[Tonton]

A pro race back in Salins after the Tour du Jura! No Mont Poupet this time, but la Côte de Thésy. It's not a monster by any means, but that old road slows you down, this climb is steep.

Bravo Jonas, dude is a Champion, very strong in his yellow. "Alaf' is back"could be a great story in July for the French public. Respect to the tortoise: Carapaz attacks. What's not to like? He should have raced Il Giro. He could have saved it.

Gaudu? He's one of my chouchous, but at 1'02" is scary. By the time you read this post Tibopino has been contacted by Marc Madiot. We're going to have a great July.

 

[Gratemans]

Whaaaaaaaaaat -
it's not enough passive racing for you already? You want everybody to give up just immediately and only try in breaks?
If they had soft pedalled it Laporte would probably have won...
No, no, I absolutely disagree. If you don't attack you've lost already, both the race and my heart. If you attack you at least have a small chance to win the race, and a big one to win my heart.

Alaphilippe
Basically the whole EF team now
Jumbots

The way a race unfolds is always a combination of many factors. In this case, I believe QS and UAE put in too much effort too early, and didn't (or at least weren't able to) follow through. I agree that Carapaz and Alaphilippe were right to try though.
On the other hand, the "if you don't attack you've lost already" only holds true for one day races. Ok, for Alaphilippe this might have been his last shot, but the way the race unfolded just left him in a hopeless position. Carapaz still has opportunities the coming days though. (After today we can maybe conclude that he's just not at Vingegaards level, but you don't know that untill you try, so kudos to him for that)

Can't agree with your list of smileys though. What's wrong with Jumbo? They play their strengths to the max and their #1 guy even took over the attack today instead of just sending the rest of his team, or leaving it to other teams, to chase.

Anyway, it's only the Dauphiné. They're just here to test their legs. On that note: who is the new Vincenzo? You know, peddaling along, ending up 15th on the GC and then absolutely torching it in a GT?

 

[Nick2413]

Whaaaaaaaaaat -
it's not enough passive racing for you already? You want everybody to give up just immediately and only try in breaks?
If they had soft pedalled it Laporte would probably have won...
No, no, I absolutely disagree. If you don't attack you've lost already, both the race and my heart. If you attack you at least have a small chance to win the race, and a big one to win my heart.

Alaphilippe
Basically the whole EF team now
Jumbots

I liked the comment Sean Kelly made about Alaphilippe being a 2x world champion. And without this style of racing Carapaz wouldn’t have an Olympic gold.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Just watched last 3 stages.
La Dauphiné rarely dissapoints.

 

[dufferrealistic]

I'd much rather see a return of decisive descents. They're a test of skill and character, rather than just physiology.

Ain't that physiology too, though.

 

[Bolder]

A pro race back in Salins after the Tour du Jura! No Mont Poupet this time, but la Côte de Thésy. It's not a monster by any means, but that old road slows you down, this climb is steep.

Bravo Jonas, dude is a Champion, very strong in his yellow. "Alaf' is back"could be a great story in July for the French public. Respect to the tortoise: Carapaz attacks. What's not to like? He should have raced Il Giro. He could have saved it.

Gaudu? He's one of my chouchous, but at 1'02" is scary. By the time you read this post Tibopino has been contacted by Marc Madiot. We're going to have a great July.

Thibaut! Give the goats some extra feed and head to Bilbao!

Seriously, Gaudu's form is disappointing but sometimes the Dauphine isn't the best judge of fitness 3 weeks later.

Today's stage should be fun. Quite warm today and the route, while not uber-grueling on paper, has a number of spots to launch an attach. The Aravis NDDB Crest Voland finish is pretty tough (and beautiful to boot).

 

[Berniece]

After yesterday I can't see anyone besides Vingegaard win unless Jumbo let's the break go for it

 

[search]

that climb looks much easier than yesterday's. Would be surprised if there's any significant GC selection.

In The PCS/LfR profile it has a 13% section, but I'm not sure it really exists. More likely not, going by street view and the Strava data from 2018.

 

[Rob5091]

Stage 6 - who will go in the break? Someone going for KOM? Jumbo can sit back and take it easy if there's no GC guys in the break - Kruijswijk has gone home so UAE or EF or Bahrain might test out Jumbo at the lumpy finish. Would not be surprised if the breakaway wins.

 

[KZD]

After yesterday I can't see anyone besides Vingegaard win unless Jumbo let's the break go for it

I think Vingegård and Jumbo will take it easy today ahead of the two harder days in the high mountains.

Having said that, if a small group arrives, he still has a chance especially if Alaphilippe is dropped along the way but I think the breakaway has a decent chance of winning.

 

[Netserk]

that climb looks much easier than yesterday's. Would be surprised if there's any significant GC selection.

In The PCS/LfR profile it has a 13% section, but I'm not sure it really exists. More likely not, going by street view and the Strava data from 2018.

So the last climb proper is about 2 km at 8 %.

 

[Tim Cahill]

JV chasing down the breaks, just let them go lads

 

[carton]

So the last climb proper is about 2 km at 8 %.

Yeah I mean someone really has to go for it to make this selective, but I just don't see that happening. If they catch the break it's an Alaphillipe stage, though the catch-22 for Quickstep is that the harder they pace the harder they make it for Alaphillipe to hang on the next two days (and maybe they will set the stage for cheeky GC attacks i.e. what happened yesterday).

 

[DJ Sprtsch]

The break should make it. They have 3:20 now.

1 16 PETERS Nans 25:59
2 32 CASTROVIEJO Jonathan 17:23
3 52 BAGIOLI Andrea 13:42
4 54 DEVENYNS Dries 45:00
5 72 AMADOR Andrey 22:34
6 87 ZIMMERMANN Georg 06:28
7 93 JORGENSON Matteo 11:20
8 117 TRENTIN Matteo 16:16
9 127 ZINGLE Axel 18:16
10 152 CRADDOCK Lawson 12:22
11 163 BURGAUDEAU Mathieu 18:04
12 166 VERCHER Mattéo 26:56
13 167 VUILLERMOZ Alexis 07:55
14 204 GUGLIELMI Simon 07:46

 

[Samamba]

What's DSM thinking? For Poole? Or Onley?

 

[Tim Cahill]

Onley is punchier and should suit the finish more than Poole who is better on longer stuff.