Damiano Cunego

[Billie]

Good afternoon all. I just registered myself here today but have been reading this forum for a couple of months now.

I'm a big fan of Cunego ever since the Giro 2004. His career path has been quite special. And for quite a long while now I have been wondering. Looking back at the last 10 years, it's almost impossible to win a GT clean. But he won his GT not by inhuman climbing but attacking against two teams that were not strong enough to chase and then letting his team defend.

Now what he has shown since then has been very irregular to say the least. Sometimes showing that he still is one of the best riders in the peloton. (Tour '06, Vuelta '09) and sometimes being absolutely worthless (this year for example).

Now is he product of doping or a very talented clean rider? Rational thinking tells me he is a doper but why could he never repeat his 04 performance in a GT?

Now if a guy with more knowledge on the subject as me could give some insight, that would be very appreciated!

I'm also intrested in power estimates for climbs. Can't really recall any ridiculous performances from Cunego in that regard. Anybody that can give me a link to his highest outputs?

Thanks

 

[Benotti69]

Cunego is part of the Mantova investigation

http://www.dopeology.org/incidents/Mantova-investigation/

He has ridden for doping teams, not hard as all teams had/have doping on them.

 

[Gregga]

Among big names...
Giro 2007

http://www.cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=5542

 

[Ferminal]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cunego-is-a-man-for-the-classics-says-team-manager-saronni

 

[Bumeington]

A lot is made of this quote from Saronni http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cunego-is-a-man-for-the-classics-says-team-manager-saronni

Sniped lol

 

[number0]

Cunego is part of the Mantova investigation

http://www.dopeology.org/incidents/Mantova-investigation/

He has ridden for doping teams, not hard as all teams had/have doping on them.

good afternoon.The Cunego's position in the Mantova investigation, seems very very softly..not like Ballan,not like Bruseghin...
seems to have been mentioned in an interception .ma the speaker would have said that Cunego and '"out of the loop." synthesizing.
there 'then the testimony of Bertagnolli, in which the rider Trent speaks of Cunego as a rider clean ..

 

[Taxus4a]

Very interesting thread.

Although is difficult to talk about never doped in a man that won the Giro in a dark era, it was possible. I dont know.

But one thing is true. He has one of the highest hmtc levels in pro cycling

I remember he was once in the start of a race claiming he is clean:

I think his problem is in his mind... he is not good at handle pressure. He win or perfomance when you dont expect him. In that way he is similar to Cobo.

He has talent, that is true, but not talent for a flat ITT, so TdF is a difficult missión por him, and he is not so regular in three weeks.

Birilo was his problem for the Giro, he was too much for him and he broke down

In last years, his results are quite strange, he couldnt shine in Lombardia, but he managed to be 7th ( 6th officially) in a Tour with a lot of big contenders: Schleck brothers, Contador, Andy, Evans,...better than Contador in the Queen stage, a long, hard, and with altitude demanding stage, good for a man with his hematocrit...he was quite anonimous that Tour, but very strong anyway.

His case is strange for me, becouse he is the only man with big natural talent that was better in results in the dark era than now. But anyway, for me that day in Galibier is his best day in a GT, and he almost win Tour de Suisse, and that was in the "clean" era.

His story for that looks like a typical doper: better in the dark era, and later just performance in some days or months, very suspicious, but by the contrary, everything points to he is a clean rider.

That way I would like as well someone put more things, becouse I d like to have more information

 

[thehog]

Very interesting thread.

Although is difficult to talk about never doped in a man that won the Giro in a dark era, it was possible. I dont know.

But one thing is true. He has one of the highest hmtc levels in pro cycling

I remember he was once in the start of a race claiming he is clean:

I think his problem is in his mind... he is not good at handle pressure. He win or perfomance when you dont expect him. In that way he is similar to Cobo.

He has talent, that is true, but not talent for a flat ITT, so TdF is a difficult missión por him, and he is not so regular in three weeks.

Birilo was his problem for the Giro, he was too much for him and he broke down

In last years, his results are quite strange, he couldnt shine in Lombardia, but he managed to be 7th ( 6th officially) in a Tour with a lot of big contenders: Schleck brothers, Contador, Andy, Evans,...better than Contador in the Queen stage, a long, hard, and with altitude demanding stage, good for a man with his hematocrit...he was quite anonimous that Tour, but very strong anyway.

His case is strange for me, becouse he is the only man with big natural talent that was better in results in the dark era than now. But anyway, for me that day in Galibier is his best day in a GT, and he almost win Tour de Suisse, and that was in the "clean" era.

His story for that looks like a typical doper: better in the dark era, and later just performance in some days or months, very suspicious, but by the contrary, everything points to he is a clean rider.

That way I would like as well someone put more things, becouse I d like to have more information

What do you think Cunego thinks about Froome?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Cunego has all but told us he was doping in the past, as has his team manager. We have the quotes about why he couldn't keep up with di Luca in 2009 as "well, there are general classifications, and there are life's classifications". We have quotes like "The Damiano who won the Giro no longer exists".

Damiano was almost certainly doping in 2004, and has quite likely been at least relatively clean (so if doping likely recovery stuff or similar) for the last few years. His GT results are improving again but as they have his one-day races have dried up to the point where it's now quite a long time ago when he was a genuine threat to win every hilly Classic he entered. And for the most part his recent GT results have come as the result of many escapes or clinging on to the back of the front group or both, and also stagehunting (like he did at the 2009 Vuelta).

And besides, when you think of how much doping was going on in 2004, then it's likely that he must have been at least pretty naturally talented to have been able to perform at the level he did against all those heavy duty dopers back then at 22, because if not, he'd have had to have been doping to beyond even Bjarne Riis level, surely!

 

[jens_attacks]

Cunego has all but told us he was doping in the past, as has his team manager. We have the quotes about why he couldn't keep up with di Luca in 2009 as "well, there are general classifications, and there are life's classifications". We have quotes like "The Damiano who won the Giro no longer exists".

Damiano was almost certainly doping in 2004, and has quite likely been at least relatively clean (so if doping likely recovery stuff or similar) for the last few years. His GT results are improving again but as they have his one-day races have dried up to the point where it's now quite a long time ago when he was a genuine threat to win every hilly Classic he entered. And for the most part his recent GT results have come as the result of many escapes or clinging on to the back of the front group or both, and also stagehunting (like he did at the 2009 Vuelta).

And besides, when you think of how much doping was going on in 2004, then it's likely that he must have been at least pretty naturally talented to have been able to perform at the level he did against all those heavy duty dopers back then at 22, because if not, he'd have had to have been doping to beyond even Bjarne Riis level, surely!

you are one of the most if not the most naive persons i read on these forums sorry. and again... the di luca quote


cunego with the 2007 giro,2009 vuelta or 2011 tour form would have won that edition of giro 2004. the painful truth it's that the level was extraordinary low
not that cunego was a sort of superhuman who never reached that level back.

damiano cunego will rest in history as a major talent, a champ but also a big size hypocrite

 

[Libertine Seguros]

you are one of the most if not the most naive persons i read on these forums sorry. and again... the di luca quote


cunego with the 2007 giro,2009 vuelta or 2011 tour form would have won that edition of giro 2004. the painful truth it's that the level was extraordinary low
not that cunego was a sort of superhuman who never reached that level back.

damiano cunego will rest in history as a major talent, a champ but also a big size hypocrite

Of course, anybody who questions Killer is in your bad books.

The 2004 Giro was at an awful level, sure, with weak competition and a dreadful parcours. But it wasn't just the Giro where he killed everyone that year, was it? Even take that whole Giro out of it and he still had more CQ points than he managed in 2010 or 2012, and only just off what he had in 2011. Only in 2008 has he even come close to matching that score.

The guy doped back then, and has been as clear as he can possibly be without saying "please ban me" about it. What that means for him now, we can debate endlessly.

I also have a bit of sympathy for him from the Harmon/Kelly hilarious soundbite on him.

Harmon: *asks question on why Cunego can't hit his 2004 level anymore*
Kelly (casually): "well, it was a different era of cycling then"
Harmon: *starts probing into justifications, trying to push Sean into explaining what he means*
Kelly (very forcefully): "I said, it was a different era of cycling then"

 

[Granville57]

you are one of the most if not the most naive persons i read on these forums sorry.

Libertine Seguros = "naive"

Good luck with that assessment.

I must admit though, with such a post, I'm left wondering if:

1) Your grasp of English is so inadequate as to allow for the possibility that you actually meant to express the opposite.

2) Your actually did express yourself correctly, in which case there are simply not enough animated LOLz to be found on the entire web to express my dismay.

3) You've unwittingly offered us a new, award-winning definition of "naive" that deserves a podium all its own.

 

[jens_attacks]

Libertine Seguros = "naive"

Good luck with that assessment.

I must admit though, with such a post, I'm left wondering if:

1) Your grasp of English is so inadequate as to allow for the possibility that you actually meant to express the opposite.

2) Your actually did express yourself correctly, in which case there are simply not enough animated LOLz to be found on the entire web to express my dismay.

3) You've unwittingly offered us a new, award-winning definition of "naive" that deserves a podium all its own.

lol mate, naive has the same meaning in my language too.

that's just how i name a person who believes moncoucou, tondo(may he rest in peace), fedrigo,cunego, voeckler and countless others . and even believes in something called....another age lol
libertine is the definition of naivety

hope i understood well the term, proffesor

 

[Granville57]

that's just how i name a person who believes...

Believes what?

What is it, exactly, that you think Libertine "believes" about these riders?

hope i understood well the term, proffesor

Oh, btw, that would be "professor."

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

The only thing people should be interested in is if Damiano still has a tue for a 52% hct.

He was a product of Alex Carrera.
[and won that Giro because Cera Simoni was on the same team and the UCI had to give Italian cycling something back after Februari 14th 2004]

 

[Taxus4a]

What do you think Cunego thinks about Froome?

I dont have any idea, I dont use to talk with Cunego, but ie, I talk with people that talk with Garcelli, a rival of him, and I guess that Cunego, the same of most of the Pelotoon and cycling world, think that Froome is a great clean champion. Even people inside cycling that dont like SKy and overall dont like his dominance sometimes, admit that, so I guess the same with Cunego.

His role in this Tour remains a mistery for my, he could be on the podium, to win a stage, or to be quite anonymous. It is depends of his luck in flat stages as well, as most of the contenders.

 

[hrotha]

Personally I always thought LS read too much into those Cunego quotes, but they're certainly vague and can be interpreted in many different ways.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

lol mate, naive has the same meaning in my language too.

that's just how i name a person who believes moncoucou, tondo(may he rest in peace), fedrigo,cunego, voeckler and countless others . and even believes in something called....another age lol
libertine is the definition of naivety

hope i understood well the term, proffesor

Hold up, I always pointed out that while Tondó going to the police is a positive thing, spending two years on LA-MSS is not. Voeckler I don't recall having defended as a clean rider for at least two years. I think Cunego is cleanER now than he was (remember, doping free in his opinion may only mean substances which would allow blood), but on Moncoutié and Fedrigo I'll plead guilty.

I don't believe in "another age". I just found Kelly's response (i.e. "I don't want to say it's cos he was doping to his eyeballs, but it's because he was doping to his eyeballs") hilarious. I also believe the péloton is cleaner now than it was 10 years ago. Not necessarily in the amount of clean riders, but in the amount of doping that takes place. Much more constraints on it. The BP doesn't stop doping, but it does keep it within smaller parameters.

J_A and I have had a few bits of back and forth banter about their love for riders who've tested positive in the past (and my distaste for certain riders, such as Cândido Barbosa, Óscar Sevilla or Chris Froome, being pointed out - probably fairly - as hypocrisy), and this'll be no different. Jens loves riders who excite, and usually they're doping. Jens has no qualms with dopers, which is probably how they can remain so enthusiastic about the sport.

 

[Taxus4a]

lol mate, naive has the same meaning in my language too.

that's just how i name a person who believes moncoucou, tondo(may he rest in peace), fedrigo,cunego, voeckler and countless others . and even believes in something called....another age lol
libertine is the definition of naivety

hope i understood well the term, proffesor

And you are the definition of skeptic. You remenber me that illnes of young skinny girls looking to the mirror and always watch a fat girl.

I bet you have never known by yourself any of current cycling world.

The typical one that thinks he knows a lot knowing anything and pretend give lessons making strong affirmations.

BS.

 

[The Hitch]

lol mate, naive has the same meaning in my language too.

that's just how i name a person who believes moncoucou, tondo(may he rest in peace), fedrigo,cunego, voeckler and countless others . and even believes in something called....another age lol
libertine is the definition of naivety

hope i understood well the term, proffesor

Mate, no one believes in voeckler.

ps your participation in the clinic is the best thing that can happen to this forum. I pray it continues.

 

[The Hitch]

I bet you have never know by yourself any of current cycling world.

Neither have you.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

And you are the definition of skeptic. You remenber me that illnes of young skinny girls looking to the mirror and always watch a fat girl.

I bet you have never know by yourself any of current cycling world.

The typical one that thinks he knows a lot knowing anything and pretend give lessons making strong affirmations.

BS.

I think you are wrong about J_A.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

you are one of the most if not the most naive persons i read on these forums sorry. and again... the di luca quote


cunego with the 2007 giro,2009 vuelta or 2011 tour form would have won that edition of giro 2004. the painful truth it's that the level was extraordinary low
not that cunego was a sort of superhuman who never reached that level back.

damiano cunego will rest in history as a major talent, a champ but also a big size hypocrite

No one cares about your opinion because you have proven that your analyses are unbelievably stupid.

it is only my opinion but without the full bagarre on galibier(which was of tremendous caliber), alberto would have beaten or came few seconds close to marco's record time on alpe. also more than a dozen riders under 40 minutes for sure. voeckler had a 38 minutes on alpe that day in his legs. the power of his legs fucced his mind though, he thought he was immortal

The 2011 Tour was one of the slowest of the last 20 years, consistently featuring historically unimpressive climbing performances, but you actually believe Pantani's record could've been in serious jeopardy. That is one of the most baffling posts in clinic history and you should never be allowed to criticise another poster, ever again.

 

[Taxus4a]

I also believe the péloton is cleaner now than it was 10 years ago. Not necessarily in the amount of clean riders, but in the amount of doping that takes place. Much more constraints on it. The BP doesn't stop doping, but it does keep it within smaller parameters.
.

Just that means a new era. Maybe there is no more, but that is for sure. From that we can disscus.

And people dont see that, they dont want to see.

 

[Ferminal]

A lot is made of this quote from Saronni http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cunego-is-a-man-for-the-classics-says-team-manager-saronni

Sniped lol

Sorry Hit and run, exact same time!