Dave Brailsford Destroying EBH?

[Butters]

Watching Milan-San Remo last weekend I got excited at seeing Boasson Hagen in the lead group. I shouldn't have, he was shelled out early, confriming to me that Sky's / Brailsford intention to turn him into a bunch sprinter has hindered his development. This guy was once the hottest prospect in the peloton, but is now a second rate bunch sprinter who's career appears to have stagnated at Sky. Well done DB.

 

[maltiv]

I was shocked to learn that EBH had been told by sky to specifically focus on improving his sprint in the winter, even doing upper body strength. I think it is all a part of Skys evil plan to turn one of the biggest talents ever into a mere leadout man for Cavendish. You can see Brailsford has already started the brainwashing with comments froam ebh like "I wouldnt mind doing leadouts for cavendish"

 

[meandmygitane]

I think this thread would be more interesting if the contributors said which way Boasson Hagen's development OUGHT to be going and HOW this would be acheived.

Should he be training for classics or time trials or what?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Watching Milan-San Remo last weekend I got excited at seeing Boasson Hagen in the lead group. I shouldn't have, he was shelled out early, confriming to me that Sky's / Brailsford intention to turn him into a bunch sprinter has hindered his development. This guy was once the hottest prospect in the peloton, but is now a second rate bunch sprinter who's career appears to have stagnated at Sky. Well done DB.

perhaps his talent isn't as big as was expected. for once the guy clealry has an engine problem when it comes to classics over 200 km, the guy is just empty. wtf has brailsford got to do with that.

 

[maltiv]

perhaps his talent isn't as big as was expected. for once the guy clealry has an engine problem when it comes to classics over 200 km, the guy is just empty. wtf has brailsford got to do with that.

He has no problem with 200 km, he won a 240 km giro d'italia stage at the age of 21, as well as G-W and he placed second at vattenfall last year (225 km). However he starts struggling after 250 km, which is not uncommon amongst youngsters. Hushovd couldn't handle 280 km before he was 28 years old for example, and there are a lot of great riders who didn't perform in monuments before they were 25+, including Philippe Gilbert.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

gw is 200 km (210) on cobbles, so not strongets participants there and the 240 km giro d'italia stage was in a break in a grand tour, nothing like a 1 day race in toughness, even boom did well in over 200 k stages in tirreno last year

 

[Michele]

It's true that he hasn't done so much till now, but he's still 24.

 

[maltiv]

gw is 200 km (210) on cobbles, so not strongets participants there and the 240 km giro d'italia stage was in a break in a grand tour, nothing like a 1 day race in toughness, even boom did well in over 200 k stages in tirreno last year

Well he was also second on a very tough 250 km stage in giro which Scarponi won. I know it's not as hard as a monument but still proves that there's an engine there. Also remember that the last year the only classic he has done while not being injured is worlds, where he did relatively well to be in the initial front group. In M-SR this year his preparation was a week without training because of his injury, which isn't exactly optimal. Last year he didn't really ride any monuments, being injured pretty much the entire spring and having to use 2 months almost completely off the bike.

 

[joy118118]

He should learn a lesson to transfer to a team more carefully. IMHO Sky is wasting him.

 

[Anonymous]

Watching Milan-San Remo last weekend I got excited at seeing Boasson Hagen in the lead group. I shouldn't have, he was shelled out early, confriming to me that Sky's / Brailsford intention to turn him into a bunch sprinter has hindered his development. This guy was once the hottest prospect in the peloton, but is now a second rate bunch sprinter who's career appears to have stagnated at Sky. Well done DB.

He got shelled out because
a) he was injured
and
b) 300km is too far for him

 

[theyoungest]

Well he was also second on a very tough 250 km stage in giro which Scarponi won. I know it's not as hard as a monument but still proves that there's an engine there. Also remember that the last year the only classic he has done while not being injured is worlds, where he did relatively well to be in the initial front group. In M-SR this year his preparation was a week without training because of his injury, which isn't exactly optimal. Last year he didn't really ride any monuments, being injured pretty much the entire spring and having to use 2 months almost completely off the bike.

The reason people don't remember this is that he was dropped before the race really started. Wout Poels and Tejay Van Garderen are both younger than him, and have much less experience in the classics, but they could stay with that front group for much longer. EBH just isn't a natural at these longer distances.

 

[Lanark]

gw is 200 km (210) on cobbles, so not strongets participants there and the 240 km giro d'italia stage was in a break in a grand tour, nothing like a 1 day race in toughness, even boom did well in over 200 k stages in tirreno last year

Yeah, a 200+ stage in a stage race can't be compared to a real classic. In the big classics (MSR, Ronde, AGR etc.) you have a strong field, a tough route, with a lot of kilometers in your legs. I requires much more endurance (or a bigger engine, or whatever you want to call it) than a long stage in a GT. A longer stage in a grand tour just means you're sitting on a bike in the peloton an hour longer, nobody will suffer more because of that. Just look at a race like Vlaanderen, it's starts to get hectic about 20 km before the Oude Kwaremont, the race pretty much doesn't slow down for the last 100km, whole teams trying desperately to start the hills in a good position, sprinting up every hill etc. That's why you need a big engine, a long stage in a GT isn't comparable to that at all, and doesn't prove you have the engine to handle the big classics.

The Gilbert comparison falls short. He already effortlessly finished in the front group in Milano - Sanremo and Paris-Tours when he was 21, when he was 22 he finished 6th in Milano-Sanremo. He had that big engine from the beginning, it was just that his climbing was far too weak to perform well in the other classics. The Hushovd comparison is more apt, but he had a completely different build up, he started at a moderately good level, and improved on that imcrementally every year. Boasson Hagen on the other hand is someone who burst on the scene, and showed tremendous promise from very early on. Hushovd is someone who only reached his physical maturity in his late twenties, can the same be said about Boasson Hagen?

I'm not saying the clock is ticking or anything, he still has time, and he has had some bad luck with injuries, but a guy like Boonen finished third in Paris-Roubaix at age 21, Gilbert 6th in Milano-Sanremo at age 22, Cancellara finished 4th at Paris-Roubaix at age 23, Freire was world champion at age 23. The really good guys usually show they can handle the distance really early on.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

uran 3rd in lombardy at age 21

many young guys show it from the get go that ability and ebh hasn't

 

[joy118118]

the injuries excuse is not that persuasive now.

he still has half of the seasons last year and this year. But last year his worlds... did he take part in it?

In his first year he was homesick that ruined his early season. At the end of that season, we still said he was a super talent.

 

[theyoungest]

I think everyone agrees that he's still super talented... we only need to go back to the Tour of Oman thread to be reminded of that. But he also seems to be rather fragile, almost Tommy D-like. Complete with interesting diet.

 

[ingsve]

uran 3rd in lombardy at age 21

many young guys show it from the get go that ability and ebh hasn't

Well, there are several examples but it's hardly a majority of young riders that show that ability. It requires a certain talent that some riders have naturally and that other riders learn as they get thougher with age.

 

[auscyclefan94]

i think some people are jumping to some unfair conclusions about ebh. Does Brailsford really have that much control over him and his progarm and what he does. the ds' and doctors will help him out with it and he will win many big bike races in the future.

 

[joy118118]

Yes, but in 2008 we said EBH wasted half of the season still getting good results. In 2010 we said EBH wasted half of the season so he was not able to prove himself. In 2011 we say EBH waste half of the season so we should wait 2012 to see what a healthy EBH can do.

The cycling season ends after Tour? I see no reason that he produces little in Worlds.

 

[theyoungest]

Well, there are several examples but it's hardly a majority of young riders that show that ability. It requires a certain talent that some riders have naturally and that other riders learn as they get thougher with age.

You could argue (as Lanark does) that almost all top level classics riders in fact did have that ability from a very young age.

 

[ingsve]

You could argue (as Lanark does) that almost all top level classics riders in fact did have that ability from a very young age.

Well, I would have to look into that before I could saying anything about that.

 

[El Pistolero]

He has no problem with 200 km, he won a 240 km giro d'italia stage at the age of 21, as well as G-W and he placed second at vattenfall last year (225 km). However he starts struggling after 250 km, which is not uncommon amongst youngsters. Hushovd couldn't handle 280 km before he was 28 years old for example, and there are a lot of great riders who didn't perform in monuments before they were 25+, including Philippe Gilbert.

That's not true, Gilbert used to attack from very early on in races like LBL hence his results never showed his true potential. He was already 6th in MSR at very young age.

 

[sublimit]

If Hagen had a couple of team mates with him maybe he could of performed better at M-S-R - ie better morale, and somebody pacing him and getting him out of the wind but unfortunately the other 7 Sky riders were caught in the second group after the crash and he was on his own.

I'm not overly concerned with him because he's performed well this year at Oman, and looking strong at K-B-K.

 

[Boeing]

Watching Milan-San Remo last weekend I got excited at seeing Boasson Hagen in the lead group. I shouldn't have, he was shelled out early, confriming to me that Sky's / Brailsford intention to turn him into a bunch sprinter has hindered his development. This guy was once the hottest prospect in the peloton, but is now a second rate bunch sprinter who's career appears to have stagnated at Sky. Well done DB.

good to read that someone besides me is calling out Brainsford. I like sky riders but it is clear that the internal bureaucracy and management are more important to this team ideology than the riders. they just dont know it

 

[hatcher]

He quite clearly isn't being made into 'just' a sprinter. It is such a bizarre accusation.

He was their leader at Oman, coming 2nd on the MTF; he was their leader at the Canadian races at the end of last season; he was the protected rider (along with Flecha) going into Omloop and KBK; he would have been - and still may be - protected going into the rest of the cobbled classics.

They have specifically said he's not going to be the type of rider to win when all the big sprinters are there, but if he IS there then why not have him sprint? He showed in the Tour last year he can podium in the big sprints.

His problem is in back-to-back years his injuries have come at the very worst times, not that he is being turned into a sprinter.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Well, there are several examples but it's hardly a majority of young riders that show that ability. It requires a certain talent that some riders have naturally and that other riders learn as they get thougher with age.

the majority of all riders don't have that ability either