Define clean

[climb4fun]

What medical waivers did Lemond, Armstrong, Indurain and Contador carry?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I believe Big Mig was taking salbutamol for asthma throughout his whole career. It came up as an issue due to the fact that it contains steroids.

 

[Alfred E. Neuman]

I believe Big Mig was taking salbutamol for asthma throughout his whole career. It came up as an issue due to the fact that it contains steroids.

It's awfully hard to find a cyclist who *doesn't* have asthma and need an inhaler to treat it.

 

[ukpaul]

Didnt Tony Rominger take something for Hay feever too?

 

[tifosa]

I'll buy into sports induced asthma. It's a medical reality. But I don't believe it's as wide spread a phenomena as the cyclists with TUE's say it is.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

yes, but all joking aside I read somewhere that there is a very high ratio people diagnosed with childhood asthma that gravitate towards athletics in adulthood for some reason.

 

[bikepure]

if we start to look back in detail, it is going to get very ugly.
the only way for cycling to move on is to look to the future. trust the new young generation forget the tyler hamiltons and the rest of the filth.


http://www.bikepure.org
clean and real bikers

 

[ukpaul]

If doping is anything that increases your ability, then should we ban energy drinks, Vitamin suppliments etc?

 

[BigBoat]

If doping is anything that increases your ability, then should we ban energy drinks, Vitamin suppliments etc?

Hey, I just to put out that suppliments (multi vitamins, etc) dont really have any performance enhancing properties at all unless you are already depleted or malnourished to begin with (in a poor starving country or live off of chicken nuggets, fries, etc.) Now, I take a multi vitamin and I would recommend others to do so to if you dont like eating all your vegetables, etc.

"Energy drinks" are just basically sugar/ caffeine. Now, caffeine can help your body save glycogen and it is a mild stimulant depending on how often you consume it. But an FTP/ V02 max increase is going to be almost un-noticeable...

This whole "energy drink" industry is realy just fancy pop for people to buy at convenient stores.

Now, "doping" for me starts at synthetic testosterone, then HGH, Insulin, IGF-1 or an mechanized growth factors >> the heaviest doping for cycling being blood transfusions (packed red cells or whole blood) and EPO/ epo stimulating peptide hormones. There are also 02 carriers and synthetic hemoglobins that are very powerful indeed.

Its the blood doping >> 02 carrying increases that really "do it in in" for non drug user Pros. They cant follow a 25% power increase, but maybe they could follow the 5% FTP increase that comes with just test or HGH for example.

Why not ban sleep? The more sleep you get while hard-training, the faster you recover.

 

[Alfred E. Neuman]

I've often wondered where you draw the line. There's so much grey area in training and nutrition, where does it go from "training" to "doping"? Which vitamins and nutritional supplements are necessary to keep up good health, and which ones artificially improve performance? Is sleeping in an altitude tent to artificially raise hemocrit levels cheating?

If the goal is to see who has the biggest genetic potential, then you'd need to ban all training as well. Just make all the athletes sit motionless all eating the same diet until race day.

 

[BigBoat]

Is sleeping in an altitude tent to artificially raise hemocrit levels cheating?

.

The tents should be banned not because they help (they dont their a scam for the most part) but because often pros use these "hypnoxic tents" as an excuse for having a highish year round hematocrit (upper 40s) which is high for a well trained, hard working athlete. The real reason is because they are on Dynepo (human identical EPO) or blood doping.

Living at very high altitude ( and them coming down to train) can give some boost but almost nobody will see close to the 50% crit limit while training hard at an endurance sport (unless their living/ sleeping daily at 14,000 feet 15 hours a day.) You practically have to go over to Nepal to really see gains.

PEDs are drugs that help you. A 16 oz starbucks does give a slight benefit ( Glycogen savings more fat burning and its a stimulant) but its not a huge difference ( 2% FTP gain max.) Compared to a say 30% power gain from a blood transfusion and 02 carriers.

Now, nutritional supplements are vitamins your body naturally uses. Hormones are chemicals your body produces and this is genetically determined. Read my before post on what I think.

 

[climb4fun]

Rephrase

All had catastrophic events.
Lemond - gunshot
Armstrong - cancer
Contador - "stroke"
Indurain - crash?

All came back remarkably quickly, as good as or better than before.

Just wondering if there is any public information access to physician prescribed meds.

 

[BroDeal]

The tents should be banned not because they help (they dont their a scam for the most part)

Are you going to ban people from living in Colorado next? What about Columbia?

 

[BigBoat]

Are you going to ban people from living in Colorado next? What about Columbia?

Lots of Columbians are JACKED... eh he he he
Living at Aspen might give you a slight benefit. But REALLY going high enough to raise your hematocrit (like above 13,000 feet) would destroy your body's ability to repair and recover from training because your starved of oxygen. If your a young guy (under 22) and kicking off tons of HGH then maybe you could see a benefit.

but Lance is still getting plenty of HGH he he he.
Its his natural youthfulness...

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Didnt Tony Rominger take something for hay fever too?

Yes. And who knows what else Dr. Ferrari gave him. Great cyclist though, should have won the '93 Tour - a year that he spent the month of June living in Leadville Colorado and riding up Mt. Evans all the time preparing for the Tour, while we're speaking of hemoglobin...

Don't recall Mig getting in any major spills, at all. Quite fortunate actually.

 

[Power13]

It's awfully hard to find a cyclist who *doesn't* have asthma and need an inhaler to treat it.

You should know what you are talking about before you post stuff.

Inhalers do NOTHING to improve performance if you don't have asthma. Zip, nada. It does not enlarge your air passages. If you DO have asthma, it only opens your airway to their natural state (i.e. reduces the inflamation / constriction).

Exercise-induced is VERY common....but many people don't realize they have it. Some can control it simply through proper warm-ups (basically the warm-up triggers a mild "attack" that the body then recovers from). Others need inhalers. Just depends.

One thing that is certain is that if you use an inhaler and you don't have asthma, it does not proivde any benefit.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Which inhalers are we talking here? Because some are now approved for athletes, while others are banned. If none do any good for healthy athletes, why are some stimulants banned?

 

[msjett]

When the question said define clean....my first thought was no dust bunnies under the couch/sofa. lol

IMO- If it ain't banned, it's an advantage that you can use. So if that's sleeping in altitude tents and super special bikes, helmets clothes etc, then so be it.

 

[Greg Johnson]

if we start to look back in detail, it is going to get very ugly.
the only way for cycling to move on is to look to the future. trust the new young generation forget the tyler hamiltons and the rest of the filth.


http://www.bikepure.org
clean and real bikers

Okay, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little. The only thing pure about this statement is it's a purely flawed approach to anything. You need to acknowledge the past to learn for the future. Always. Doesn't matter if you're talking about society, politics, or even doping in sport.

Besides, the question here is more ‘where do you draw the line?’ In theory riding at altitude can be performance enhancing, as can downing a can of V, right through to blood doping. I’m sure it’s possible to stage an interesting discussion on people’s views about where they feel the line is, without turning it into an all out vendetta on those involved in the latter, please.

Don’t forget, your new generation is influence by those of yesteryear. Did you miss the Riccardo Ricco incident last year? No ifs, no buts, he falls into that bracket. To simply say young guys are clean and deserve our trust is proven to be laughable.

Cheers
Greg Johnson

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I don't think he's quite saying that Greg. If you follow the guy's posts he's saying that the culture of doping is what needs to be flushed. This would be older riders who dope and have an influence on younger riders, and team managers, doctors and trainers (Pevenage, Santuccione , Fuentes, Ferrari, etc.) who have a dark career, but somehow manage to still remain connected to cycling.

I think banning everyone from any older generation implies that everyone over the age of 25 or so either doped or is doping, and can't be trusted. That can't be right. I mean, take a look at David Millar. I'm not too keen on the guy from his past, however I do believe he is clean, and sets a good example for younger riders. I think Gilberto Simoni may have a few skeletons in his closet as well, but his outspoken attitude about dopers should be applauded. There are others as well. Chris Horner is another example. We need older riders like this in the peloton. And I'd like to think Bikepure would agree with me on this.

 

[ukpaul]

Hey, I just to put out that suppliments (multi vitamins, etc) dont really have any performance enhancing properties at all unless you are already depleted or malnourished to begin with (in a poor starving country or live off of chicken nuggets, fries, etc.) Now, I take a multi vitamin and I would recommend others to do so to if you dont like eating all your vegetables, etc.

"Energy drinks" are just basically sugar/ caffeine. Now, caffeine can help your body save glycogen and it is a mild stimulant depending on how often you consume it. But an FTP/ V02 max increase is going to be almost un-noticeable...

This whole "energy drink" industry is realy just fancy pop for people to buy at convenient stores.

Now, "doping" for me starts at synthetic testosterone, then HGH, Insulin, IGF-1 or an mechanized growth factors >> the heaviest doping for cycling being blood transfusions (packed red cells or whole blood) and EPO/ epo stimulating peptide hormones. There are also 02 carriers and synthetic hemoglobins that are very powerful indeed.

Its the blood doping >> 02 carrying increases that really "do it in in" for non drug user Pros. They cant follow a 25% power increase, but maybe they could follow the 5% FTP increase that comes with just test or HGH for example.

Why not ban sleep? The more sleep you get while hard-training, the faster you recover.

So are you saying that Vitamin Injections that tour riders used to use in the GT's are ok ?
Anything that gives you an extra advantage over the competion should be banned.
So many pro's take all kinds of drugs and supplements just to survive not just win.
I know it doesnt make it right but its not just the winners who take drugs.