Did Armstrong pressure teammates to dope?

[thehog]

- This is getting much worse for camp Armstrong.

Tyler Hamilton, one of Armstrong’s teammates on the United States Postal Service team, has already testified, according to people briefed on the case. Other teammates, who did not want their names published because the case is continuing, have spoken with investigators. At least two riders have admitted their own doping on the United States Postal Service team and said Armstrong had pressured teammates to dope.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/17/sports/cycling/17armstrong.html?_r=1

More detailed information contained within.

 

[The Hitch]

- This is getting much worse for camp Armstrong.

Tyler Hamilton, one of Armstrong’s teammates on the United States Postal Service team, has already testified, according to people briefed on the case. Other teammates, who did not want their names published because the case is continuing, have spoken with investigators. At least two riders have admitted their own doping on the United States Postal Service team and said Armstrong had pressured teammates to dope.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/17/sports/cycling/17armstrong.html?_r=1

More detailed information contained within.

Seeing what we know about this thing of ours during the Armstrong era, the proffesion itself required riders to dope. You didnt need Lance to do it. If they werent doping they wouldnt be on his team in the first place.

 

[MacRoadie]

Herman said. “In terms of reliability and credibility, testimony enjoys a lot more credibility than a phone conversation with Greg LeMond.” He said LeMond had “a habit of telling people they are being taped from time to time and encouraging them to be colorful in their comments.”

Aside from being a complete and total fabrication Tim (didn't you say Lemond's habit actually was to tape people without their knowledge?), which story are we going to stick with?

Is the tape illegal because Lemond didn't tell McIlvain she was being taped, or was McIlvain being "colorful in (her) comments" because Lemond told her she was being taped?

 

[Cobblestoned]

Of course they never doped before they met Armstrong.
It's clear that Armstrong invented doping. Proven by the h.

Last time i read a version of such an article about this topic they used the word "encourage".
Is this a difference to "pressure" ?

In the end it doesn't matter. It stays ridiculous to take Lance into responsibility for other riders's doping and that he allegedly had forced them to.

Poor teammates.
No one of his teammates with some brain left will ever make Lance responsible for their own failures.

lol

 

[TubularBills]

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2009/11/8-things-on-lance-armstrong-from-other.html

In #8 the long (63 minutes) Competitor interview Betsy talks about the pressure on teammates... it's been a while since I listened to it and I didn't get a timestamp for exactly where... so if someone finds pertinent comments to Hog's query maybe note and post the times

&

The observations from Cédric Vasseur, excerpted in 'From Lance to Landis' and posted on the cozybeehive site towards the bottom and before the comments give a very clear picture of the pressure...

"Within the team, he likes to be considered the boss, to be taken for God." to some that might be construed as pressure?

 

[Race Radio]

Lance used to ridicule teammates who did not use the services of Dr. Ferrari so yes he did but he is far from the only source of this pressure. At least 4 members of USPS were given the same ultimatum by team staff, either take the shot or do not start tomorrow.

Stephanie needs to get her act together quickly. Beyond the LeMond tape there is also the Voice Mails she left on Betsy's phone and what she told a reporter. She has told at least 3 people that she heard it. Continuing the lie will do her no good.

 

[buckwheat]

Lance used to ridicule teammates who did not use the services of Dr. Ferrari so yes he did but he is far from the only source of this pressure. At least 4 members of USPS were given the same ultimatum by team staff, either take the shot or do not start tomorrow.

Stephanie needs to get her act together quickly. Beyond the LeMond tape there is also the Voice Mails she left on Betsy's phone and what she told a reporter. She has told at least 3 people that she heard it. Continuing the lie will do her no good.

Where's Startt btw?

P.S. Looks like pharmstrong got to him.

http://www.jamesstartt.net/

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[Anonymous]

Of course they never doped before they met Armstrong.
It's clear that Armstrong invented doping. Proven by the h.

Last time i read a version of such an article about this topic they used the word "encourage".
Is this a difference to "pressure" ?

In the end it doesn't matter. It stays ridiculous to take Lance into responsibility for other riders's doping and that he allegedly had forced them to.

Poor teammates.
No one of his teammates with some brain left will ever make Lance responsible for their own failures.

lol

More asinine comments.

Uh, lessee. LA during his run is widely viewed as the peleton's patron. If the peleton viewed him this way my guess is his mates would too.

Is everyone ultimately responsible for thier own actions? Yes.

Does this mean LA gets a pass if he coerced his mates? Hell no.

 

[Anonymous]

Where's Startt btw?

I talked to him on the Muur at the 2009 RvV. At the time he was based in Paris working for Bicycling Mag as European Editor or something like that.

Edit: He's still working for/with Bicycling Magazine, or was at this years TdF.

 

[luckyboy]

Aside from being a complete and total fabrication Tim (didn't you say Lemond's habit actually was to tape people without their knowledge?), which story are we going to stick with?

Is the tape illegal because Lemond didn't tell McIlvain she was being taped, or was McIlvain being "colorful in (her) comments" because Lemond told her she was being taped?

From what I remember, McIlvain asked him kinda jokily if there were people there/it was being taped. He said no but his wife was there. Something like that.

 

[buckwheat]

I talked to him on the Muur at the 2009 RvV. At the time he was based in Paris working for Bicycling Mag as European Editor or something like that.

Good to hear!

I guess he's safe over there unless he gets poked with one of those Dioxin tipped umbrellas.

 

[Ferminal]

I'd be surprised if Lance pressured his teammates. I think that would more fall into the Hog's role.

I always thought that Lance would have "inspired" his teammates because of his unwavering commitment to the program.

 

[MacRoadie]

From what I remember, McIlvain asked him kinda jokily if there were people there/it was being taped. He said no but his wife was there. Something like that.

I wasn't referring to the content of the conversation, although I do take exception to Greg's misrepresentation regarding the recorder.

The Armstrong defense team has made a talking point of Lemond's taping of calls in general, and both the illegality and inadmissability of the McIlvain tape specifically.

They have repeatedly highlighted what they have referred to as Lemond's propensity for illegally taping phone calls: specifically not noticing the participants that the calls were being taped. In this instance, they stress that not only did lemond record the call, but he lied to McIlvain when he explicitly stated he was not taping.

The moral: Greg likes to tape you without your knowledge, even when you ask if he is or tell him not to.

Now, we're getting he has “a habit of telling people they are being taped from time to time and encouraging them to be colorful in their comments".

So now Greg has a habit of not telling people he is recording AND a habit of telling people he is recording...

While I am inclined to believe the former, the latter is ridiculous, and ultimately to assume both to be correct is absolutely assinine.

 

[MacRoadie]

I'd be surprised if Lance pressured his teammates. I think that would more fall into the Hog's role.

I always thought that Lance would have "inspired" his teammates because of his unwavering commitment to the program.

This is the same Lance famous for "The Look", the "zipped lips" gesture, and the "Wondering what the little prince will say now" Tweet right?

 

[Polish]

Tyler made a choice to dope at CSC. Floyd made a choice to dope at Phonak.

They did not have to worry about Lance flushing their blood down the toilet at those teams lol.

Lance, the Flusher Man....

 

[jmax22]

"Armstrong, who for years has vehemently denied doping, testified that no one at the hospital had asked him if he had used performance-enhancing drugs."

Seriously dude? You're being treated for a deadly disease and nobody asked if you were on any drugs. I've been asked that when I got my wisdom teeth pulled, when I got stitches for a cut in my head, when I had a herniated disc in my back and when I broke my arm.

Um, that's a pretty standard question, and to claim he wasn't asked if he was on any drugs is more than hard to believe. But, they have 600 pages of documentation, which apparently includes 100% of the conversations Lance had with any medical personel in the hospital. Um, right, that is also standard procedure. Just get this over with and prosecute the d-bag, it's pretty obvious he's guilty as sin and the stuff he and his dimwitted PR guy Fabiani spew is so embarrasing, it's rediculous.

 

[theswordsman]

I'd be surprised if Lance pressured his teammates. I think that would more fall into the Hog's role.

I always thought that Lance would have "inspired" his teammates because of his unwavering commitment to the program.

I think that if you look at how Lance got guys who had been Contador's teammates for other races and other grand tours to turn against, you can glimpse what he's capable of. It doesn't take much after reading even his own books to know that he was a win at all costs guy, and that he had control over his previous Tour de France teams.

The other interesting thing in the article below is that guys who saw him behaving badly are still too intimidated to allow their names to be printed. What kind of "retribution" can one guy and his teammates get on riders in the Tour de France peloton, and what has happened in the past to make people fear it?

Contador, a 27-year-old Spaniard with deeply-set dark eyes and a whisper-thin build, has already detailed some of the things that made it difficult for him to win the Tour last year. The day after the completion of the 2009 Tour, he said Armstrong had convinced the team to turn on him.

“The days in the hotel were harder than those on the road,” he said then. “The situation was tense and delicate because the relationship between myself and Lance extended to the rest of the staff.”

On the day of the final time trial, the team left Contador behind, stranded without a ride to the start. He ended up winning that stage anyway. Throughout the Tour, he was ostracized at team meals.

Members of other teams that shared Astana’s dining rooms often overheard Armstrong talking badly about Contador — while Contador, who understands English, was sitting at the same table. (Those riders spoke on the condition of anonymity because they said they feared retribution from Armstrong and his teammates at this race.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/03/sports/cycling/03tour.html

 

[kielbasa]

Tyler made a choice to dope at CSC. Floyd made a choice to dope at Phonak.

They did not have to worry about Lance flushing their blood down the toilet at those teams lol.

Lance, the Flusher Man....

IOW, Tyler and Floyd got caught while no longer on Postal and stuff just didn't flush the same way. Makes sense to me.

 

[thehog]

Have to say the picture being built here is very ugly. Hats off to Armstrong for fooling the world that he was a genuine guy. The cancer helped there. None the less its a frightening scenario that not only did he use himself, he forced others to and derided anyone who spoke of being/wanting to be clean. How was he allowed to comeback? I guess Catlin was the "in" to the sport again. I'm starting to think Armstrong had little talent at all and has been using since he was a teenager.

 

[MacRoadie]

... But, they have 600 pages of documentation, which apparently includes 100% of the conversations Lance had with any medical personel in the hospital. Um, right, that is also standard procedure. Just get this over with and prosecute the d-bag, it's pretty obvious he's guilty as sin and the stuff he and his dimwitted PR guy Fabiani spew is so embarrasing, it's rediculous.

Keep in mind it is also a teaching hospital with numerous students and interns making rounds throughout the day. Will every visit to the room, including those made for teaching purposes, be memorialized in the charts? Even those whose purpose was solely for critiquing?

 

[cathulu]

Lance probably was asked if he used drugs or was on any medication, anything out of the ordinary etc by the docs. He probably was not asked directly "performance enhancing" drugs so in effect he can believe and claim his statement as true although anyone in their right mind would see it as false. Just like Clinton did not have sex with that woman. A careful definition and parsing.

 

[TubularBills]

Have to say the picture being built here is very ugly. Hats off to Armstrong for fooling the world that he was a genuine guy. The cancer helped there. None the less its a frightening scenario that not only did he use himself, he forced others to and derided anyone who spoke of being/wanting to be clean. How was he allowed to comeback? I guess Catlin was the "in" to the sport again. I'm starting to think Armstrong had little talent at all and has been using since he was a teenager.

I agree, if you look at the history of the Discovery and more so, Postal - look at the churn, it's a firkin revolving door, quite a few great cyclists in and out in often a year, maybe two...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_Channel_Pro_Cycling_Team

Yeah, it's speculative, but I'll bet the 'my way or the highway' Primadonna culture was to blame - it's not unlikely that many couldn't wait to escape the cloying oppression and "required" equipment... new contract, different team, first opportunity... jump.

[it's kinda the nature of the sport, but it still seems excessive]

A tell all expose/history of those years with all the stories and dirt, would (will) be, a painful but revealing page turner... we'll have to wait till 'donna loses her crown and all the players retire, but still...

 

[redtreviso]

Doping around Lance is like child sex vacations for Republicans.. The GOP leadership only trusts their people after they have joined the sex with children club. Lance needed the silence provided by having everyone around him guilty.
Maybe Karl Rove has worked for Lance from the beginning.

 

[flicker]

"Armstrong, who for years has vehemently denied doping, testified that no one at the hospital had asked him if he had used performance-enhancing drugs."

Seriously dude? You're being treated for a deadly disease and nobody asked if you were on any drugs. I've been asked that when I got my wisdom teeth pulled, when I got stitches for a cut in my head, when I had a herniated disc in my back and when I broke my arm.

Um, that's a pretty standard question, and to claim he wasn't asked if he was on any drugs is more than hard to believe. But, they have 600 pages of documentation, which apparently includes 100% of the conversations Lance had with any medical personel in the hospital. Um, right, that is also standard procedure. Just get this over with and prosecute the d-bag, it's pretty obvious he's guilty as sin and the stuff he and his dimwitted PR guy Fabiani spew is so embarrasing, it's rediculous.

hating is bad!

 

[ricara]

Worse than man-love on an internet forum?