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Did Menvhov pull his weight in 2007

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Sep 25, 2009
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Did Menchov pull his weight in 2007?

Dekker_Tifosi said:
That's bs.
Rasmussen was co-leader from the start and that was only logical due to him being 7th before after being 3rd before the final TT and completely screwing up that TT (as we all remember) a few years prior.

Menchov was never designated to be 'sole GC leader' in 2007.
in you own head.

bs is your passion for diminishing some rider (who no longer rides for your team) whilst pumping up others because you, by your own avatar a fan of them.

rasmussen himself said he was going for the mountain jearsy yet he was intending on cheating everyone.
 
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Dekker_Tifosi said:
You are divulging into personal attacks rather than using new arguments.
I guess you are out of them then.
Back to topic...
quite opposite. you were characterized for what you posted or did not post. you said bs about my post and were called for your bs - with facts and reasons why. repeat: ras was NOT NOT a designated gc rider but in his own words, a mountains jersey rider. FACT.
 
python said:
in you own head.

bs is your passion for diminishing some rider (who no longer rides for your team) whilst pumping up others because you, by your own avatar a fan of them.

rasmussen himself said he was going for the mountain jearsy yet he was intending on cheating everyone.
So Rasmussen found himself ahead of his theoretical leader in the GC. That happens all the time. Was he supposed to lose time on purpose to keep Menchov happy, considering he wasn't some Charteau, but a valid GC rider?
 
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hrotha said:
So Rasmussen found himself ahead of his theoretical leader in the GC. That happens all the time. Was he supposed to lose time on purpose to keep Menchov happy, considering he wasn't some Charteau, but a valid GC rider?
he hasn't found himself, he planned to cheat on his pre-tour obligations to his team mates.

what he's supposed to do is not the point. what menchov was supposed to do for the one who cheated him was the point.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Cobblestoned said:
For the people who think that Menchov didn´t give enough support:
Perhaps Menchov wasn´t able to do bigger and more pulls, because he just couldn´t physically do it/more.

Just saying. These people are no machines - except of Spartacus.

well then why are people saying he did lots of work for rasmussen, that is the point of dicussion here, this adds nothing to any of the arguments.
 
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tgsgirl said:
TdF 2009: Wiggins > Vande Velde
TdF 2009: Van Den Broeck > Evans

Both cheaters too then?
were did you see me talking about those guys ? if you think they're cheaters or not cheaters it's your prerogative. i was talking specifically about rasmussen/menchov dynamic when rasmussen pre-announced he's going for the KOM, no one none put him in the gc copm, then we learned of his trail of other lies so get your own opinion.

and again, please go back to the main point i made, an accusation was made that someone was not an obliged, loyal, team rider which in my argument was unfair given what was expected on the team and eventually transpired.
 
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python said:
he hasn't found himself, he planned to cheat on his pre-tour obligations to his team mates.

what he's supposed to do is not the point. what menchov was supposed to do for the one who cheated him was the point.

[edited by mod] how the bloody hell was menchov supposed to know rasmussen was cheating them??!!

it just shows menchov cares about one person and that's himself he's a horrible gregario. he also never works in smaller tours for other riders that are doing stronger than him. he also basically never races anything than was is solely needed to prepare for tour.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Ryo Hazuki said:
[edited by mod] how the hell was menchov supposed to know rasmussen cheated him?? :rolleyes:

do you mind if i return the stupid tag ? how was menchov supposed to know he was nor really the leader of the team and ras is not lying ?
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Ryo Hazuki said:
[edited by mod] how the bloody hell was menchov supposed to know rasmussen was cheating them??!!

it just shows menchov cares about one person and that's himself he's a horrible gregario. he also never works in smaller tours for other riders that are doing stronger than him. he also basically never races anything than was is solely needed to prepare for tour.
i think my stupidity is less than your ignorance and knowledge of cycling.
 
Meh, anyone giving rasmussen 6 minutes before the final climb in 2007 had only themselves to blame when he held half of the gap

As for Menchov duped or not he should have made it over the Galibier with the favorites. Doubt that Rasmussen's betrayal was the cause of his bad day.
 
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roundabout said:
Meh, anyone giving rasmussen 6 minutes before the final climb in 2007 had only themselves to blame when he held half of the gap

As for Menchov duped or not he should have made it over the Galibier with the favorites. Doubt that Rasmussen's betrayal was the cause of his bad day.
as was noted many times about denis, he switches into the 'saving mode' once he figures the game is not his. imo, he was already thinking about the vuelta then.
 
Feb 18, 2010
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python said:
were did you see me talking about those guys?

Well, if you think Rasmussen is a cheater because he was riding better than Menchov then Wiggins and Van den Broeck must be cheaters too, right? They ever announced they were there to be better than their leaders either.

I do believe Rasmussen is a cheater, but not because he was completing the parcours in less time than Menchov (but because of the means he was using to do that).
 
python said:
this phrase alone shows how little you know about cycling. because only a clueless one or an anti-fan would call him a gregario.
I think you should chill. He's not calling him a gregario, he's just saying that, as a domestique (i.e. when a situation calls for him to work as a domestique), he's not very good.
 
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tgsgirl said:
I do believe Rasmussen is a cheater, but not because he was completing the parcours in less time than Menchov (but because of the means he was using to do that).
that and the pre-tour role he publically stated but did not mean to uphold. i never was a rasmussen basher (you wont find those posts) but it was clear his intentions were to win that tour no matter what
 
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hrotha said:
I think you should chill. He's not calling him a gregario, he's just saying that, as a domestique (i.e. when a situation calls for him to work as a domestique), he's not very good.
i can only read what he wrote - 'a terrible gregario' he wrote. and he called me names. so your appeals to chill should be directed elsewhere, not me. if you feel you can read his mind than so be it. me i can only read what he wrote.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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roundabout said:
Meh, anyone giving rasmussen 6 minutes before the final climb in 2007 had only themselves to blame when he held half of the gap

As for Menchov duped or not he should have made it over the Galibier with the favorites. Doubt that Rasmussen's betrayal was the cause of his bad day.

That's true, but that was a Tour where the time trial specialists were expected to win and Rasmussen said he was going for the KoM, so they probably allowed Rasmussen to go in a break away. Foolishly? Yes. I don't think he would've won(before he got pulled out) if he didn't get into that break away. And if Contador didn't have that flat tire on a mountain stage(surprise surprise, no one waited for him)

He lost like 40 seconds or even a minute because of his flat tire there. And Contador was also a better time trial specialist than Rasmussen(ok lol, that's nothing special at all)
 
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python said:
that and the pre-tour role he publically stated but did not mean to uphold. i never was a rasmussen basher (you wont find those posts) but it was clear his intentions were to win that tour no matter what

Van Den Broeck's role in 2009 was to support Evans while doing as well as he could himself. He ended up ahead of his leader. Did he cheat according to you?
 
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El Pistolero said:
That's true, but that was a Tour where the time trial specialists were expected to win and Rasmussen said he was going for the KoM, so they probably allowed Rasmussen to go in a break away. Foolishly? Yes. I don't think he would've won(before he got pulled out) if he didn't get into that break away. And if Contador didn't have that flat tire on a mountain stage(surprise surprise, no one waited for him)
yes, you just hit the nail on the head. ras has achieved what armstrong failed to get in 2009 against contador by having team tactics switched to the de facto yellow wearer. in that sense it's racing and i can not condemn it, but if you're a designated gc man on the team, like menchov was, it makes for some poor gregario motivation.
 
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tgsgirl said:
Van Den Broeck's role in 2009 was to support Evans while doing as well as he could himself. He ended up ahead of his leader. Did he cheat according to you?
once again, i am only interested in ras/menchov dynamic in his thread. there was a lot there...
 
python said:
quite opposite. you were characterized for what you posted or did not post. you said bs about my post and were called for your bs - with facts and reasons why. repeat: ras was NOT NOT a designated gc rider but in his own words, a mountains jersey rider. FACT.
Not a fact, and I would know since I live in the country where all the Rabo-hysteric media reports any fart about it.
Rasmussen was co GC leader. FACT :rolleyes:
 
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