Discussing other posters

[Dear Wiggo]

I actually think this post is insightful. And well said. Hog knows how to figuratively drive 64 mph in a 55 zone - when he knows that the tipping point for the ticket is 65. I suppose he keeps things from getting too serious.

Admin are going to condone discussing posters now? Condone and participate?

Not only is it OT, but I was under the impression discussing posters was against the rules.

Of course, I cannot find the rules so it's difficult to know.

The posts in this sequence started with a 1 post wonder insulting / belittling a couple of posters - I flagged that, and it was responded to by someone else, who saw the knife and pushed it in further. That a mod / admin would continue the trend, leaving the offending posts in-thread is somewhat disheartening.

I have no problem putting people down and being derogatory - but have actively been trying to unlearn / modify this behaviour. I'd like some encouragment beyond infraction and ban threats.

 

[ElChingon]

In before the LOCK!

hiero2 has totally gone off the plank for some time, not only bringing up dead threads but commenting and basically saying absolutely nothing in an attempt to derail, of course in the name of bettering a thread but instead it sinks to the sewer.

Sorry hiero2, you started off well but I think its time to hang it up.

 

[hiero2]

I'm off the plank? Ok, whatever.

DW - I actually thought that was a compliment to the hog, and it could be applied to quite a number of other posters, too. Do us a favor and write him a pm. If hog is insulted, and thinks I dissed him - I'll stand down, apologize, and not do it again.

I don't think discussing other posters is over the line - I think it is attacking other posters. I'll check - but the rules are ez to find. They are a sticky at the top of most every subforum.

As a mod, I've tried to post little bits of learning for posters when I see them (I'm thinking of an example in the mods thread). I could just pipe down, then cut, trim, delete, and ban more often.

El - I have gotten in a couple of heated discussions lately - or I thot they were heated. Notice that I didn't do that as a mod, but as a poster. Sorry you didn't think what I had to say was worthwhile.

Did you read the article I linked in the necro-thread? It covers ground so well-covered I felt there had to be a proper thread for it. I could have opened a new one of course. We've got some really good interview material coming out now - and that is right up there, in my book.

 

[hiero2]

Nvm guys, I fixed it. See if you like that better. It IS OT, but I think the humor will be appreciated, and unofficially, a topic can go OT for a couple of posts.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

DW - I actually thought that was a compliment to the hog, and it could be applied to quite a number of other posters, too. Do us a favor and write him a pm. If hog is insulted, and thinks I dissed him - I'll stand down, apologize, and not do it again.

You have one poster putting other posters down.
You have MV quoting and adding "wrestle with a pig" imagery.

Both posts are flagged as insulting, but you quote them / him and agree. This reinforces the behaviour, and says that what they are posting is fine.

I encourage someone to read the friggin article and you threaten me with an infraction.

Consistency would be good.

 

[hiero2]

You have one poster putting other posters down.
You have MV quoting and adding "wrestle with a pig" imagery.

Both posts are flagged as insulting, but you quote them / him and agree. This reinforces the behaviour, and says that what they are posting is fine.

I encourage someone to read the friggin article and you threaten me with an infraction.

Consistency would be good.

Go back and see what I did to my quote - it ain't there any more.

To be honest with you, that seems to me like one of MV's better posts. I felt like hog would appreciate what he said as being reasonably honest.

We know we have a bunch of guys who like to create controversy and do little more than use sarcasm and write posts that are little better than outright trolling. But, in the name of conversation and discussion, we allow stuff that isn't out and out ugly. I am aware that you, and some other posters whose respect I would like to have, do not agree with the world as I see it. To an extent, it just has to be that way. I listen to, and consider what you say, and the complaints you make. That does not always mean I agree with what you see as insulting.

Oh - and one other thing. If you had worded the "go read the article" more politely as I recall (this was the rtfu, wasn't it?), it would have passed, no problem. Which would you rather hear:

rtfu
--or--
Have you read the article?

When you and I are standing at the coffee machine in the office, rtfu will be fine. We aren't there. Does that help any?

Forgive me if my memory is off - I'm trying to finish my taxes, and taking a break. Lovely day.

 

[hiero2]

DW - answer me this:

I just went thru the complaints - I hadn't yet - to find yours. I hadn't read the Sethscapes original carefully, but I see he did post an insult to you. However, MV actually stood up for you in the immediate next post.

Now, do you think the whole discussion should be deleted? As I see it, you actually gained cred in the discussion. Perhaps you see it differently? Let me know, plz.

 

[pedaling squares]

This is being called an unreasonable discussion about another member?

I actually think this post is insightful. And well said. Hog knows how to figuratively drive 64 mph in a 55 zone - when he knows that the tipping point for the ticket is 65. I suppose he keeps things from getting too serious.

I see that as being pseudo-complimentary, he's saying the guy knows where the line is and how to toe it. Seems like good moderation to me.

What a place. Some days we have too many nannies, other days too many babies.

 

[Amsterhammer]

We know we have a bunch of guys who like to create controversy and do little more than use sarcasm and write posts that are little better than outright trolling. But, in the name of conversation and discussion, we allow stuff that isn't out and out ugly.

This!

I seriously and sincerely suggest that in view of everything that has been going on, NOW would be a really good time for a mod/admin pow-wow about how to deal with these well established trolls, and how to change the trolling culture that you have admitted exists, and that 'you' (the mods collectively) have condoned and turned a blind eye to. Your personal not "out and out ugly" may be highly offensive to the person at whom it was directed! This really needs to stop, and it should stop right now.

Actually, your admission here is pretty shocking. Many posters would consider that the posters and posts to which you refer are indeed "outright trolling", and something that should never have been tolerated here for as long as it has.

 

[hiero2]

This!

I seriously and sincerely suggest that in view of everything that has been going on, NOW would be a really good time for a mod/admin pow-wow about how to deal with these well established trolls, and how to change the trolling culture that you have admitted exists, and that 'you' (the mods collectively) have condoned and turned a blind eye to. Your personal not "out and out ugly" may be highly offensive to the person at whom it was directed! This really needs to stop, and it should stop right now.

Actually, your admission here is pretty shocking. Many posters would consider that the posters and posts to which you refer are indeed "outright trolling", and something that should never have been tolerated here for as long as it has.

Amster! I LOVE that you posted this response! I LOVE it! Why? Because, if I take you literally, that means that many of the posts in the cafe would be deleted. I'll just throw a guess out there, and say 25% of all posts in the Clinic would disappear. Professional Road Racing? It would lose a few posts - it seems to stay pretty clean. Form and Fitness topic has a few threads that are, ahem, controversial.

Now, that said, "condoned" has a different connotation from permitted. Freedom of speech is still the over-riding rule, but when is it yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater? I would heartily disagree with any allegation that mods are "condoning" any posts as you suggest, whereas you might have an argument, in my mind, if you substituted the word "permitted". One problem is where (at what point) you can declare a post as "trolling" or "baiting". If the poster is honestly seeking dialogue, and is simply "out-of-sorts" with the mainstream, it isn't trolling, is it? On what basis do you make a judgement that it has crossed some line?

All that said, yeah, the mods/admins are having a convo about all this crap.


YO! Who took my hip waders!



Cheers

 

[MarkvW]

In before the LOCK!

hiero2 has totally gone off the plank for some time, not only bringing up dead threads but commenting and basically saying absolutely nothing in an attempt to derail, of course in the name of bettering a thread but instead it sinks to the sewer.

Sorry hiero2, you started off well but I think its time to hang it up.

This website doesn't care enough about moderation to pay its mods. With one noteworthy exception (who tends to censor arguments he disagrees with), the mods do a pretty good job--especially for being free mods.

I can't see why the mods should be any better (or worse) than forum members when they're posting (not moderating). It's not like they're our parents and we need to follow their example . . .

 

[Scott SoCal]

Amster! I LOVE that you posted this response! I LOVE it! Why? Because, if I take you literally, that means that many of the posts in the cafe would be deleted. I'll just throw a guess out there, and say 25% of all posts in the Clinic would disappear. Professional Road Racing? It would lose a few posts - it seems to stay pretty clean. Form and Fitness topic has a few threads that are, ahem, controversial.

Now, that said, "condoned" has a different connotation from permitted. Freedom of speech is still the over-riding rule, but when is it yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater? I would heartily disagree with any allegation that mods are "condoning" any posts as you suggest, whereas you might have an argument, in my mind, if you substituted the word "permitted". One problem is where (at what point) you can declare a post as "trolling" or "baiting". If the poster is honestly seeking dialogue, and is simply "out-of-sorts" with the mainstream, it isn't trolling, is it? On what basis do you make a judgement that it has crossed some line?

All that said, yeah, the mods/admins are having a convo about all this crap.


YO! Who took my hip waders!



Cheers

All that said, yeah, the mods/admins are having a convo about all this crap.

Here's an idea; why not just shut this place down and save yourselves all the hassle?

It's actually a pretty good deal for CN when you think about it. A place to discuss all kinds of stuff.... Posters provide the conntent for free, the sight is moderated with volunteer labor, tens of thousands of members with millions of hits and all CN has to do is sell ad space and pay taxes on their profits.

As a business model, it's pretty impressive.

 

[Boeing]

I've been doing it for years

 

[mountainrman]

This!

I seriously and sincerely suggest that in view of everything that has been going on, NOW would be a really good time for a mod/admin pow-wow about how to deal with these well established trolls, and how to change the trolling culture that you have admitted exists, and that 'you' (the mods collectively) have condoned and turned a blind eye to. Your personal not "out and out ugly" may be highly offensive to the person at whom it was directed! This really needs to stop, and it should stop right now.

Actually, your admission here is pretty shocking. Many posters would consider that the posters and posts to which you refer are indeed "outright trolling", and something that should never have been tolerated here for as long as it has.

Spot on Amsterhammer.

Sadly my now closed thread demonstrates the above to perfection: some posters are allowed to post a stream of blatant insults and ridicule with impunity, even noted as violations, but nothing is done. The insults, neither deleted nor sanctioned.

Every failure to tackle this problem, only encourages the perpetrators to be yet bolder, even in that case to the point of the abuser having the temerity to tell hiero that his definition of trolling is wrong, when his posts are clearly against the existing rules regarding insulting of other users.

As noted - Like all kinds of bullying it is extremely unpleasant for the ones to whom it is directed, and like most kinds of bullying the perpetrators hide behind saying it is "humour". It is not, nor is it intended to be. It is a deliberate attempt at humiliation.

The only way to deal with bullies is to stand up to them, but neither is that possible either for other than moderators. Were the recipients to respond in kind to the taunting, they certainly would be sanctioned, so those bullied have hands tied behind their backs. If the mods do nothing, the bullies win.

There must be zero tolerance of referring to other posters or their motivations in posts, except to quote them as part of a reasoned argument. Period. ie the rules that are applied on most other forums.

The tolerance here of serial insulters certainly discourages others from posting.

 

[BroDeal]

Troll babble.

There must be zero tolerance of referring to other posters or their motivations in posts, except to quote them as part of a reasoned argument. Period. ie the rules that are applied on most other forums.

Translation: There must be zero tolerance for members pointing out my trolling so I can destroy the forum without inteference.

 

[Netserk]

Translation: There must be zero tolerance for members pointing out my trolling so I can destroy the forum without inteference.

You can always point it out in a pm to a mod.

 

[BroDeal]

You can always point it out in a pm to a mod.

Who has faith in them?

Usual pattern, especially since the original mods jumped ship: A mountainrman-like troll trolls relentlessly until the certain threads are barely worth reading. This goes on weeks, sometimes months. Long after the horse has left the barn and died of old age on the open range, a mod finally decides it might be a good idea to close the gate.

 

[Netserk]

Perhaps new mods could learn new tricks. Or even old mods for that matter.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Translation: There must be zero tolerance for members pointing out my trolling so I can destroy the forum without inteference.

I don't believe he is trolling, I think he seriously believes that he is right and the rest of the world is wrong. Trolling takes a certain intellect and detachment, a nutter who thinks everyone is out to get him is way too transparent to make a top notch troll. For examples of good trolling observe the works of the hog or ChrisE or yourself.

 

[MarkvW]

A guy starts a thread all about himself and then complains that he is being insulted. It's just attention-seeking behavior.

You guys give him the attention and he feeds off of it. Everybody's needs are fulfilled . . ..

 

[ebandit]

forum

A guy starts a thread all about himself and then complains that he is being insulted. It's just attention-seeking behavior.

You guys give him the attention and he feeds off of it. Everybody's needs are fulfilled . . ..

it's a forum............we all post as an opportunity to express ourselves....
..to be noticed

members reading can ignore posts or choose to add to discussion

why insult other members?

Mark L

 

[MarkvW]

it's a forum............we all post as an opportunity to express ourselves....
..to be noticed

members reading can ignore posts or choose to add to discussion

why insult other members?

Mark L

I really didn't mean it as an insult, especially seeing as I am one of the people adding to the discussion

I think it can fairly be said that mountainrman was trolling for insults and then complaining about them when they eventually came.

 

[ebandit]

insults

I really didn't mean it as an insult, especially seeing as I am one of the people adding to the discussion

I think it can fairly be said that mountainrman was trolling for insults and then complaining about them when they eventually came.

markw .....i did not intend to infer that your post was insulting

my ? why insult other members was addressed to those that mrman was referring to in op and others who lower themselves to post petty insults
and deriding comments throughout the forum

Mark L

 

[ElChingon]

Who has faith in them?

Usual pattern, especially since the original mods jumped ship: A mountainrman-like troll trolls relentlessly until the certain threads are barely worth reading. This goes on weeks, sometimes months. Long after the horse has left the barn and died of old age on the open range, a mod finally decides it might be a good idea to close the gate.

Have to agree with Bro here, it has seriously failed us. Mods can't be trusted either, the underground is pretty bad, leaks are present and they cause animosity amongst posters. (Yes, some of us know so don't go into UCI denial mode).

 

[sittingbison]

...Yes, some of us know so don't go into UCI denial mode.

I did not have sex with that woman

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know

We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more

And the Congress will push me to raise taxes and I'll say no. And they'll push, and I'll say no, and they'll push again, and I'll say, to them, ‘Read my lips: no new taxes'

aaaarrrrggghhhh resistance is futile...

There is nothing. I repeat again: Lance Armstrong has never used doping. Never, never, never. I say this not because I am a friend of his, because that is not true. I say it because I'm sure.

We're going to be looking further into this affair