Do we create the problem..

[Anonymous]

Ive been thinking about this a lot after todays stage. The stage was frankly brutal, there is no other way to describe it. Had it been a one day race it would have been one of those you take a week to recover from. Yet we expect them to go out tommorow and finish on top of a bloody mountain..

Its been a brutal first week of the giro, and there is another week before they even get a rest day.

Do we, the fans, the organisers expect to much from them, are we making racing just too tough? Is there a difference between doping to win, and doping just to survive?

Are we expecting the current generation of riders to ride like previous generations, to manage the same kinds of courses, stages that their pre-decessors did? Because lets face it, every generation of cycling has doped.

If we expect the current set of riders to ride clean, dont things need to be a little easier, and a little less superhuman?

Basically we are one week into this giro, and if it carries on like this, I dont see how a rider can complete it clean.. its too tough.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

No. You can make the shortest, most easy stages out and teams will still cheat - for the pure and simple reason that they want to win. You could have rest days every other day and they would cheat.

The teams today knew going into today that they have tomorrow's stage, they could have taken it easy, but instead teams like Katusha went eyeballs out. They made that choice, it could have been a dead easy stage today and they still would have gone eyeballs out today.

The likes of Vino, Dertie, Cuddles, Uniballer, aren't doping to survive, they are doping because they want to win. They aren't paying thousands to Ferrari and Fuentes to finish in the bus but because they want to win.

Making the race easier won't stop the cheaters.

The one area where things could change is maybe in our expectations, perhaps if we didn't expect stages to be raced at huge speeds, or to see people attacking 150km from the finish, then there would be less pressure on teams and riders to be 'exciting'.

Also, if the media were a little more honest and a little more critical when it comes to asking questions of riders, teams and the authorities of their conduct over doping, rather than the cosy 'you stroke my back and I'll roll over' relationship that currently exists then perhaps the additional scrutiny and resultant transparency might do more to clean up the sport.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

No. You can make the shortest, most easy stages out and teams will still cheat - for the pure and simple reason that they want to win. You could have rest days every other day and they would cheat.

The teams today knew going into today that they have tomorrow's stage, they could have taken it easy, but instead teams like Katusha went eyeballs out. They made that choice, it could have been a dead easy stage today and they still would have gone eyeballs out today.

The likes of Vino, Dertie, Cuddles, Uniballer, aren't doping to survive, they are doping because they want to win. They aren't paying thousands to Ferrari and Fuentes to finish in the bus but because they want to win.

Making the race easier won't stop the cheaters.

The one area where things could change is maybe in our expectations, perhaps if we didn't expect stages to be raced and huge speeds, or to see people attacking 150km from the finish, then there would be less pressure on teams and riders to be 'exciting'.

Also, if the media were a little more honest and a little more critical when it comes to asking questions of riders, teams and the authorities of their conduct over doping, rather than the cosy 'you stroke my back and I'll roll over' relationship that currently exists then perhaps the additional scrutiny and resultant transparency might do more to clean up the sport.

+1 ....

Agree on all parts with the slight exception that some riders are undoubtedly doping to 'survive' - but it is not the route or accumulation of race days that they are trying to 'survive', it is the relentless speed that those doping at the top produce.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Dim, lets just have 20km races from town to twon, eliminate any hill in it what so ever just so it's not too tough for some riders.

 

[theswordsman]

This was a brutal week. And personally, I'm against what's meant to be a tour of one country for popping into another country for more than a few hours. I've called Zomegnan a mad scientist before because of how difficult the corsa rosa is from year to year. But I've also never tried to play connect the dots across a country before, in a race that's been around a hundred or so years and is expected to be fresh and new every year. We don't see on TV how big a deal the caravans are, and the celebrations in the town along the route. But different places are willing to spend some of their tourism budget each year to show up on the nifty helicopter shots and things. Coming up with start towns and finish towns with enough hotels and parking space is huge, and then you need to get in the best climbs, and visit different regions. Lots of people were excited about today's stage before the rain, and there was a 50/50 chance it would have been much different.

Closer to topic, no, we're not responsible. You could have twenty mile stages every day, and if there was a prize, or glory to be had, people would cheat. On a lot of stages, I enjoy watching the scenery of a country captured at twenty something miles an hour. It wouldn't bother me a bit if the pace was slower, or it took longer to go up the climbs. There would still be someone who had more ability, was better prepared, or was willing to hurt a bit more for a bit longer than someone else.

But sponsors put pressure on teams, and teams put pressure on riders, and they need to make a living and in a competitive market. Some take shortcuts, just like some people lie on resumes to get better jobs, or cheat on exams, or whatever. Grand tours are meant to be some of the toughest endurance events in the world. I like to think there are fifty or a hundred athletes in the world capable of doing it pretty well.

A university sports professor told some of Linus Gerdeman's friends that it's impossible to complete a grand tour without doping. He wants to prove that it is possible to do really well at the Tour de France. If he gets the chance to go through with the plan, it will answer the question much better than we can. And wouldn't it be cool if afterward, some young guys would think that they have as much talent as he does, so if he can get results without, they can too.

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

No. You can make the shortest, most easy stages out and teams will still cheat - for the pure and simple reason that they want to win. You could have rest days every other day and they would cheat.

People still dope to win the 100meter sprint in athletics so making it easier won't necessarily do anything.

However there might be an argument to allow them some dope in grand tours to at least not damage their bodies too much.

 

[happychappy]

How about making the races tougher - more time trials, more mountain top finishes and forget about catching people "doping".

 

[Race Radio]

I have ridden all of those "roads" they raced on today. It was not a hard course. The addition of heavy wind and rain made it much more challenging.

If the riders want it easier they can just ride slower

 

[BikeCentric]

How about making the races tougher - more time trials, more mountain top finishes and forget about catching people "doping".

How about no.

WWF on wheels! There is no demand for that.

 

[BikeCentric]

No. You can make the shortest, most easy stages out and teams will still cheat - for the pure and simple reason that they want to win. You could have rest days every other day and they would cheat.

The teams today knew going into today that they have tomorrow's stage, they could have taken it easy, but instead teams like Katusha went eyeballs out. They made that choice, it could have been a dead easy stage today and they still would have gone eyeballs out today.

The likes of Vino, Dertie, Cuddles, Uniballer, aren't doping to survive, they are doping because they want to win. They aren't paying thousands to Ferrari and Fuentes to finish in the bus but because they want to win.

Making the race easier won't stop the cheaters.

The one area where things could change is maybe in our expectations, perhaps if we didn't expect stages to be raced at huge speeds, or to see people attacking 150km from the finish, then there would be less pressure on teams and riders to be 'exciting'.

Also, if the media were a little more honest and a little more critical when it comes to asking questions of riders, teams and the authorities of their conduct over doping, rather than the cosy 'you stroke my back and I'll roll over' relationship that currently exists then perhaps the additional scrutiny and resultant transparency might do more to clean up the sport.

Yep, well said.

 

[craig1985]

How about no.

WWF on wheels! There is no demand for that.

I'm sure you would you enjoy seeing Simeoni and Bassons tag team Lance in a cage match

 

[Colm.Murphy]

How about making the races tougher - more time trials, more mountain top finishes and forget about catching people "doping".

And the interest and ratings would increase exponentially.

Victims of the success that doping brings in the context of the other major sports alternatives? yes. The other sports dope unabated, and they are clearly the most popular. They are protected by their athlete unions (to a large extent) and the almighty dollar.

It is this that you all struggle with. You want big time, but want it to come from alter boys. Not gonna happen.

Face the situation: For this sport to keep market share, it needs doping to put on the "show".

Anything less and the sport goes the way of the dodo.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

People still dope to win the 100meter sprint in athletics so making it easier won't necessarily do anything.

However there might be an argument to allow them some dope in grand tours to at least not damage their bodies too much.

I'm against doping in any possible way when it's taken to enhance your performance. In the case of GT's(and I asked my parents who are both doctors) it would be healthier for a rider(for recuperation and his whole body) to take a little bit of EPO after every stage. Not in Performance Enhancing amounts but very small doses to increase their recup.
I'm not propagating doping in any way I just say it would be healthier for those GT racers

 

[eljimberino]

Yeh, I emailed Cuddles and Vino the other days and said: Hey boys make this stage exciting and entertaining or Im gunna kick your ***. As cuddles said in the post-race interview, he just happened to be the one with strength in reserve. He must have had an image of eljimberino in his mind when he juiced just that little more than Vino.

 

[Roninho]

You don't need doping to ride these stages. Actually you could probably increase the length of the stages with 50% and the riders would still be capable to ride them. They would just run slower. They 'need' doping because they want to win (or in some cases due to lack of talent, 'need' doping to stay in the 'bus')

Best example imo is 100 m sprint. There have been so many doping cases in athletics. Why would they need doping, it's only 100 meters, even my grandfather can 'run' for that long.

 

[beroepsrenner]

Ive been thinking about this a lot after todays stage. The stage was frankly brutal, there is no other way to describe it. Had it been a one day race it would have been one of those you take a week to recover from. Yet we expect them to go out tommorow and finish on top of a bloody mountain..

Its been a brutal first week of the giro, and there is another week before they even get a rest day.

Do we, the fans, the organisers expect to much from them, are we making racing just too tough? Is there a difference between doping to win, and doping just to survive?

Are we expecting the current generation of riders to ride like previous generations, to manage the same kinds of courses, stages that their pre-decessors did? Because lets face it, every generation of cycling has doped.

If we expect the current set of riders to ride clean, dont things need to be a little easier, and a little less superhuman?

Basically we are one week into this giro, and if it carries on like this, I dont see how a rider can complete it clean.. its too tough.

This is a very good post. You have touched on a number of valid points, however there are no easy answers. The demands placed on its athletes are often unreasonable as are the expectations of the fans. This is what makes it such a special sport for those who understand what goes into it. Doping has always played a part and probably always will. The important thing is not to let this issue overshadow the exceptional athletesism required to compete at this elite level regardless of what "substances" are used to help put on the show.

 

[buckwheat]

I have ridden all of those "roads" they raced on today. It was not a hard course. The addition of heavy wind and rain made it much more challenging.

If the riders want it easier they can just ride slower

Yeah, but then they are labeled losers.

Then you have pharmstrong talking about how slow Sastre rode. Damn that guy is da kansa.

I'd love going to MLB games and the fat drunk bastids would tell Strawberry how much he sucked.

The show Pros v Joes was fantastic for putting fantasizers into their place.

 

[Archibald]

what the Swordsman said...

 

[broken chain]

Let em dope.I love watching cyclists climb mountains at 20 mph!
Its not compromising my health,plus its entertaining!
I would like to see two classifications.One for doping and one clean.
Alas,you would see the clean sneaking in a ped or two.

 

[BikeCentric]

Let em dope.I love watching cyclists climb mountains at 20 mph!
Its not compromising my health,plus its entertaining!
I would like to see two classifications.One for doping and one clean.
Alas,you would see the clean sneaking in a ped or two.

This would split an already small sponsorship revenue stream and make both "versions" of the sport suck.