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Does Basso's Vuelta Performance Confirm his Doping at 2006 Giro?

Jun 11, 2009
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He won the 2006 Giro by 13 minutes.

Now he is having trouble keeping up with watered down fields in the 3rd grand tour.

Does this all but confirm that he was doped to the gills in 2006?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Alexzulle said:
He won the 2006 Giro by 13 minutes.

Now he is having trouble keeping up with watered down fields in the 3rd grand tour.

Does this all but confirm that he was doped to the gills in 2006?

Quoting Basso word for word in late 2008:

"I will return to my previous level. If I didn't I wouldn't have any credibility to say I didn't use drugs"
 
issoisso said:
Quoting Basso word for word in late 2008:

"I will return to my previous level. If I didn't I wouldn't have any credibility to say I didn't use drugs"

I was thinking of this quote after Basso failed to even make the Vuelta podium. Couldnt remember which magazine I read it in but the question is. Does Basso have any credibility? I think he might actually be clean-er this season.
 
pmcg76 said:
I was thinking of this quote after Basso failed to even make the Vuelta podium. Couldnt remember which magazine I read it in but the question is. Does Basso have any credibility? I think he might actually be clean-er this season.

Either he was scared straight by his 2 year sus. or there was just no competition when he won the Giro.
If the passport has leveled the playing field why has Basso seemed to drop so far? Was he an even better "responder" than LA? Is he the only completely clean rider? Or is he the only guy who does not have access to whatever the latest program is?
When he left he seemed like he would be the next dominant GT winner, the only one who could ride with Armstrong when he was at his best. Now it seems like he is still just below an aging returned from retirement Armstrong. Are Contador, Schleck etal. that much better than everyone was a few years ago, or has Basso diminished in some way.
At the very least I'm finding it hard to believe that he "was only thinking about blood doping".
 
Sep 20, 2009
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Alexzulle said:
Does this all but confirm that he was doped to the gills in 2006?

Not in itself, no. It would take most pros a couple of years of competition to get back to where they were before a two year ban. You can't replicate competition in training.
 
British Pro Cycling said:
Not in itself, no. It would take most pros a couple of years of competition to get back to where they were before a two year ban. You can't replicate competition in training.

So how did Lance come back so well at his age and he wasnt even training specifically for cycling whilst retired like Basso was? Is this another reincarnation of BPC.
 
Sep 20, 2009
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pmcg76 said:
So how did Lance come back so well at his age and he wasnt even training specifically for cycling whilst retired like Basso was? Is this another reincarnation of BPC.

But he didn't come back that well. He went from winning 7 in a row to finishing a distant 3rd. He certainly wasn't back where he was. But you're right that it was still one of the better GC comebacks all things considered.
 
A

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British Pro Cycling said:
But he didn't come back that well. He went from winning 7 in a row to finishing a distant 3rd. He certainly wasn't back where he was. But you're right that it was still one of the better GC comebacks all things considered.

You just can't take a hint, can you? What a tool. Oh well, turned in your most current incarnation. See you later...hopefully. (yes I realize that you are slick enough to post under a new IP, but you will out yourself sooner or later loser.)

Is being a professional troll really that fun?
 
British Pro Cycling said:
But he didn't come back that well. He went from winning 7 in a row to finishing a distant 3rd. He certainly wasn't back where he was. But you're right that it was still one of the better GC comebacks all things considered.

How sad must your life be that you have to reinvent yourself so many times on a forum?
 
Aug 19, 2009
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British Pro Cycling said:
But he didn't come back that well. He went from winning 7 in a row to finishing a distant 3rd. He certainly wasn't back where he was. But you're right that it was still one of the better GC comebacks all things considered.

Well argued. It wasn't that good, but still one of the best.
 
Thoughtforfood said:
You just can't take a hint, can you? What a tool. Oh well, turned in your most current incarnation. See you later...hopefully. (yes I realize that you are slick enough to post under a new IP, but you will out yourself sooner or later loser.)

Is being a professional troll really that fun?

Digger said:
How sad must your life be that you have to reinvent yourself so many times on a forum?

Now lets be fair guys, maybe it's just coincidence that someone has picked almost the same user name and spouts the same nonsense as a former poster, maybe.....
 
Jul 13, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
Now lets be fair guys, maybe it's just coincidence that someone has picked almost the same user name and spouts the same nonsense as a former poster, maybe.....
And takes care to always turn off the little green light...
 
Mar 13, 2009
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I'd say Basso's performance at the Vuelta confirms two things: 1) He used to dope and 2) He doesn't dope anymore.
I know he never really admitted to doing it, but at least he kind of admitted to trying to do it and I don't know why but I just have a lot more respect for him then for Valverde or Vinokourov ...
 
Jul 13, 2009
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Christian said:
I'd say Basso's performance at the Vuelta confirms two things: 1) He used to dope and 2) He doesn't dope anymore.
I know he never really admitted to doing it, but at least he kind of admitted to trying to do it and I don't know why but I just have a lot more respect for him then for Valverde or Vinokourov ...
Well he seems to have gone back to the Fassa Bortolo Basso, doesn't he? So, perhaps that was also the non-"attempting to dope" version?

I find it hard to believe, but the recent discussion on Armstrong's blood values, and particularly the graph where the giro and tour values could be clearly clustered, made me think that there are different types and intensities of doping. Ofcourse, this is not the first time at all I heard this; Dutch cycling journalist Benjo Maso used to make a similar point on usenet group rec.bicycles.racing. His implicit claim was that Indurain was a very 'mild' user of EPO, or so I interpreted him (Maso made to my knowledge never a direct claim about doping by Indurain).

So rather than seeing Basso as 'clean' now, I would be more inclined to believe he has decreased the intensity to the minimum level needed to compete. Whatever that may mean in terms of dosage and methods.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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VERY VERY talented clean riders probably wouldnt even make it the finish of a Grand Tour (Tour de France, Giro, Vuelta) due to the extreme pace set by riders blood doping and getting over 6 watts per kilo at threshold. At very best Basso might have gotten in the top 50-60 places if he just dug and dug to try and keep up...What a joke. The most talented rider in the race cant even get top 50.

The truth is that somebody with just 10% more power than you on a climb can toy with you like a your a small boy. Autologous blood doping or epo use have the same effect. ITS HEMATOCRIT. a huge boost in crit will give you up to 30% more sustainable aerobic power if jacked all the way to 57-60 crit from a natural crit value of 38-40.

Recovery helpers like IGF-1 or HGH, dont do much except help maintain sustainable power after days of hard racing. A clean talent could still beat doped riders who just have these. Testosterone doesnt do much either, although corticoids give the most benefit over the others.
 
Jun 21, 2009
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ChrisE said:
Does a one-legged duck swim in a circle?
by the way the question is asked i'm tempted to think you know the answer to this one. so, well, does it? :confused:
Bag_O_Wallet said:
Well argued. It wasn't that good, but still one of the best.

didn't the pharmstrong one say that his tests etc were better or at least as good as when he was boring everyone's tits off during those seven years? meaning contador and aschleck has taken tour de france riding to another level?
 
Sep 20, 2009
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Alexzulle said:
He won the 2006 Giro by 13 minutes.

Now he is having trouble keeping up with watered down fields in the 3rd grand tour.

Does this all but confirm that he was doped to the gills in 2006?

Not in itself, no. It would take most pros a couple of years of competition to get back to where they were before a two year ban. You can't replicate competition in training.

Does anyone disagree with that because I noticed it was removed? Not sure why since nobody raised an objection to this fairly basic point.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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British Pro Cycling said:
Not in itself, no. It would take most pros a couple of years of competition to get back to where they were before a two year ban. You can't replicate competition in training.

Does anyone disagree with that because I noticed it was removed? Not sure why since nobody raised an objection to this fairly basic point.

Unfortunately you have picked a user-name that resembles a troll who was running down a lot of threads on this forum.

The mods are pretty fair on this forum and allow quite a bit of leeway - but even they got tired of it in the end and the poster was banned- only to appear later that day under a very familiar user-name.
 
Sep 20, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
Unfortunately you have picked a user-name that resembles a troll who was running down a lot of threads on this forum.

The mods are pretty fair on this forum and allow quite a bit of leeway - but even they got tired of it in the end and the poster was banned- only to appear later that day under a very familiar user-name.

Oh thanks for the heads up. I couldn't see anyone with the same user name when I signed up. I thought I was getting deleted because someone disagreed with me about something. I didn't think it was that type of forum here.
 
Aug 19, 2009
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British Pro Cycling said:
Not in itself, no. It would take most pros a couple of years of competition to get back to where they were before a two year ban. You can't replicate competition in training.

There seems to be conventional wisdom that it takes a couple of years to get to top form. What's the reasoning for that?

For rookies, I'd imagine it would take a couple of years to gain the trust of the doping illuminati, but why for guys coming back from injury, suspension, or presumably retirement?