Does the UCI suit worry some that they

[PosterBill]

are being the aggressors. It makes me believe that they might have actually covered their tracks well enough to know they can't be nailed for corruption related stuff. This is the angle of the USADA report that I am most interested in reading. I am hoping there is something in the report that will tie in the UCI to the stink era, other then Floyd and Tyler's statements which won't amount to much. Oh please let there be a smoking gun ie a mole, lab officials, something we could hang em high on

 

[DirtyWorks]

are being the aggressors. It makes me believe that they might have actually covered their tracks well enough to know they can't be nailed for corruption related stuff. This is the angle of the USADA report that I am most interested in reading. I am hoping there is something in the report that will tie in the UCI to the stink era, other then Floyd and Tyler's statements which won't amount to much. Oh please let there be a smoking gun ie a mole, lab officials, something we could hang em high on

I and others would hope so. However, that's reaching out of USADA/WADA authority because it directly accuses the UCI of various bad things. The question then becomes, "Now what?" Because the UCI answers to no one. Sure, the IOC might not be happy, but money fixes that.

If, they publish it as rider testimony, they are well within their charter. It damages the perception of the UCI, but that's about it. I hope there's some other fallout, but I don't see it.

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

Yes, somewhat worrisome. This is to be expected though since UCI has had loads of time to try to cover tracks, and a pretty good idea of what those tracks are that need white washing. Human factors (e.g. Saugy and similar might be more difficult to cover) but I suspect they are well-versed in that game also. They can't wipe everything, but they may be able to clean enough to muddy the waters of doubt sufficiently to protect themselves.

 

[PosterBill]

yeah i guess USADA's hands are somewhat tied on that. I can only hope that the UCI is mentioned by more then Hamilton and Landis but something leads me to doubt it. You would have to be crazy insane to make that declaration after seeing what the UCI has done to Landis/Hamilton. You basically gurantee yourself to never be involved with cycling again, you basically become toxic to the sport. For a good many of those riders it will be one of the only sources of income after they retire. It's really amazing how sweet the UCI has it.

 

[DirtyWorks]

You would have to be crazy insane to make that declaration after seeing what the UCI has done to Landis/Hamilton.

Unfortunately, that list is much, much longer. In most cases, the riders are not as resonably confident to be clean like a Simeoni/Bassons, so they aren't easily described as 'good guys.' The blacklist is long.

 

[Epicycle]

I'm skeptical about anything being proved about the UCI. I think Pat and Hein will probably commission another Vrijman-type report that "exonerates" them. My question is whether they will just take care of themselves in that way or extend the courtesy to Lance again. The real hope may be all of this leading to Pat losing the election for the presidency next year, so we get a new president who makes reform a priority.

 

[Irish2009]

I read it as the deal has been done by UCI & USADA. UCI will not appeal Armstrongs ban to CAS, in return it will not be punished by USADA, by releasing damaging information it has on UCI involvement, the court cases being "won" by the UCI give some credability to the casual fan and hey presto alls quite in the post Armstrong shire again.

 

[superleicht]

Worried? No.

Superleicht

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

In most cases, the riders are not as resonably confident to be clean like a Simeoni/Bassons

Although he served a purpose as a whistleblower, Simeoni was most certainly not clean. He came into being in the position of blowing the whistle as a Ferrari client pre-Armstrong.

 

[superleicht]

I read it as the deal has been done by UCI & USADA. UCI will not appeal Armstrongs ban to CAS, in return it will not be punished by USADA, by releasing damaging information it has on UCI involvement, the court cases being "won" by the UCI give some credability to the casual fan and hey presto alls quite in the post Armstrong shire again.

Maybe. I think USADA (and others) see UCI as a leg of the stool and believe that no real change will happen with the current leadership in place. (IOC can't be happy re where this might be heading.) But when Lance declined to take the charges to arbitration, he left his fate in the hands of others. We'll see.

Superleicht

 

[PosterBill]

Ah I actually disagree with you. Tygart really seems a man of principal, I mean he took on Lance Armstrong, an american hero at the time. Why would he fear locking horns with the UCI compared to LA. LA had more potential reprocussions then the UCI could ever dream. LA had US political strings to pull and a legion of rabid fanboys at his disposal. UCI only has CAS to fall back on. And CAS is what Tygart wanted to see from the beginning.

Stranger things have happened but I would be shocked if Tygart made any dealings with the UCI..he hates the UCI

 

[Tinman]

You basically gurantee yourself to never be involved with cycling again, you basically become toxic to the sport. For a good many of those riders it will be one of the only sources of income after they retire. It's really amazing how sweet the UCI has it.

Agreed. Cannot expect/rely on riders. What Floyd and subsequent others did had a large "Lance" rationale.

What will change UCI is pressure on the national Feds from the public and fans as well as IOC. IOC will be very concerned that unless this doping debacle in cycling goes away that it may spill over into other sports and that the public loose faith in sports administrations everywhere. And once the public get hold of doping in cycling then the discussions will move very quickly to doping in other sports and what those administrations are doing, and then to corruption within the administrations.

Check the threads in the clinic. Already more talk about doping in other sports.

So we need more reasons for press coverage. Kimmage trial, Landis ads, etc. Start with doping, then move to conflict of interest issues and "likelihood" for corruption.

Come to think of it, sports admin is one of the last bastions of relative non accountability. The corporates and politics have long moved on. Even many African dictatorships have...

 

[Bushranger]

Ah I actually disagree with you. Tygart really seems a man of principal, I mean he took on Lance Armstrong, an american hero at the time. Why would he fear locking horns with the UCI compared to LA. LA had more potential reprocussions then the UCI could ever dream. LA had US political strings to pull and a legion of rabid fanboys at his disposal. UCI only has CAS to fall back on. And CAS is what Tygart wanted to see from the beginning.

Stranger things have happened but I would be shocked if Tygart made any dealings with the UCI..he hates the UCI

I agree. USADA does not have to consider the hurt feelings of Pat and Hein. UCI court case against Landis is funny. They by their actions and the detailed list of topics Floyd is not to discuss give away the real truth..IMO. They have linked themselves to Lance in this way.

 

[B_Ugli]

What will change UCI is pressure on the national Feds from the public and fans as well as IOC. IOC will be very concerned that unless this doping debacle in cycling goes away that it may spill over into other sports and that the public loose faith in sports administrations everywhere. And once the public get hold of doping in cycling then the discussions will move very quickly to doping in other sports and what those administrations are doing, and then to corruption within the administrations.

I agree with what you have said here but this simply wont happen. The reality is that the average Member of a National Federation is not interested in lobbying their federation to bring about change at the UCI. You might have a small hard core of fans that want to see change but the majority simply wont believe that they can effect any meaningful change.

The UCI being based in Switzerland means that they are totally protected in a web of other sporting institutions intrinsically linked to one another who are probably on equally dubious footing to a lesser or greater degree. Its exactly the same reason why people have Swiss bank accounts. Switzerland isnt even a member of the EU.

Lets assume that USADA conclude that there was wrong doing at the UCI which is corroborated by others that then come forward.

They cant send anybody to prison (this would have to be done in a Swiss court).
They cant ban McQuaid and Vergruggen (this would have to be done by the IOC) - correct me if I am wrong.

You imagine the ramifications either of the abov would have for say the IAAF and FIFA. The IOC/The Swiss are unlikely to allow the precedent to be set.

The whole thing is really a juridictional mess and what we are seeing at the moment is effectively a juridictional chess game of PR & manouvering prior to USADA decision. The UCI are taking the attack is the best form of defence policy from inside their protected fortress.

In my opinion any restructuring of the UCI (if it ever happened which I doubt) should start with it first being shifted to an EU country outside of Switzerland. Their headquarters would have been raided years ago had they been based in any other country.

 

[thehog]

I agree with what you have said here but this simply wont happen. The reality is that the average Member of a National Federation is not interested in lobbying their federation to bring about change at the UCI. You might have a small hard core of fans that want to see change but the majority simply wont believe that they can effect any meaningful change.

The UCI being based in Switzerland means that they are totally protected in a web of other sporting institutions intrinsically linked to one another who are probably on equally dubious footing to a lesser or greater degree. Its exactly the same reason why people have Swiss bank accounts. Switzerland isnt even a member of the EU.

Lets assume that USADA conclude that there was wrong doing at the UCI which is corroborated by others that then come forward.

They cant send anybody to prison (this would have to be done in a Swiss court).
They cant ban McQuaid and Vergruggen (this would have to be done by the IOC) - correct me if I am wrong.

You imagine the ramifications either of the abov would have for say the IAAF and FIFA. The IOC/The Swiss are unlikely to allow the precedent to be set.

The whole thing is really a juridictional mess and what we are seeing at the moment is effectively a juridictional chess game of PR & manouvering prior to USADA decision. The UCI are taking the attack is the best form of defence policy from inside their protected fortress.

In my opinion any restructuring of the UCI (if it ever happened which I doubt) should start with it first being shifted to an EU country outside of Switzerland. Their headquarters would have been raided years ago had they been based in any other country.

Whenever a nation began to waiver in their support of the UCI all of a sudden their funding proposal for a junior development program or a paint job on the local velodrome would get approved.

 

[Cloxxki]

If Lance bragged to like 5 riders, also yet-to-be-considered-clean, about him owning the UCI, does this not force the UCI to file a Swiss defamation suit against Lance? He is not only calling them corrupt, he is confirming this with his own at the time impaccable reputation. AND he happens to be the UCI's sole reported rider/donor, in 6-figure amounts even. All too coincidental to not deserve a huge defamation suit.

 

[D-Queued]

If Lance bragged to like 5 riders, also yet-to-be-considered-clean, about him owning the UCI, does this not force the UCI to file a Swiss defamation suit against Lance? He is not only calling them corrupt, he is confirming this with his own at the time impaccable reputation. AND he happens to be the UCI's sole reported rider/donor, in 6-figure amounts even. All too coincidental to not deserve a huge defamation suit.

No.

It is all in the interpretation. Hein and Pat were flattered, and were looking for share options.

Dave.

 

[Cloxxki]

Is this the place to applaud Lemond for emailing CN? Check the homepage. His laywers rock!

 

[DirtyWorks]

IOC will be very concerned that unless this doping debacle in cycling goes away that it may spill over into other sports and that the public loose faith in sports administrations everywhere.

No one is losing faith. You'd think that would happen but it didn't around BALCO and USA Track and Field. It didn't around cycling.

The IOC knows the federations cover positives for athletes that make a great show. Inside the Olympic culture, *everyone* knows this. And yet, every time something pops up that makes even a once-every-four-year watcher suspect the IOC is up to no good, nothing happens.

We just had a Summer Olympics where an athlete proudly associated herself with a banned manager DURING her medal press conference while the Olympics were in full-swing. The manager was banned for 10 years for supplying PED's. And nothing followed. Search for the word 'balco' and it's all right there.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...n-felix-200-meters-track-and-field/index.html

 

[131313]

My take on the UCI suit against Landis is that it really symbolizes the beginning of the end for those in charge at the UCI, and that after mid-October then end is going to come pretty swiftly.

It's a move that really smacks of loud desperation: suing someone to "protect your integrity", someone who you KNOW isn't going to , and can't mount a defense. The UCI aren't going out and suing other people who are saying the same thing, people with the means to protect themselves (like, say, LeMond--as CN pointed out today). Instead they go after a guy living out of tent and an unemployed journalists. Oops...unemployed journalist now has over 50K in his defense war chest, and still counting...and a now high-profile case that some fancy lawyers will take just for good PR since so much attention has been brought to the case. Bet Pat and Hein didn't see that one coming...

By going after what they perceive as the weak while ignoring the strong just reinforces their own position as rats on a sinking ship. To me, it demonstrates that they're pretty much done.

The challenge will be putting in people who aren't carbon copies of what's leaving, and changing the methods by which people get that power in the first place, to avoid the same thing from happening down the road. I think one of the key things in this is that the UCI has to be incorporated in a country that actually has laws. Sorry Switzerland, but you seem to be designed to harbor wealthy corrupt organizations and individuals. You've failed massively on this one.

 

[GeeMan]

The IOC, Denis Oswald, has already said about stripping LA Bronze medal is highly unlikely they will change their records due to the 8 year rule in the Code so it doesn't appear to affect them too much.

The latest ruling on FL is, I believe, the first significant step in the Political machinations in the USADA/LA matter.

Tygart has been openly recorded of accusing UCI of burying positive tests however having it reported and being filmed saying it are different as FL found out!

UCI, I believe, had no option other than to say they would not contest the sanctions unless there was something of serious concern which if you are UCI any FL testimony about a cover up or anyone else saying it means UCI have no option other than to defend themselves, ala 2006 Virjam Report when fighting with WADA, something’s never change I suppose!

For me, the whole thing is warped out of shape by UCI, WADA and USADA all playing hardball and brinksmanship and all trying to work outwith their remit when it suits.

This biggest issue that I see facing the outcome of the USADA case is will the US Legal System accept WADC rewrite to circumvent Home Law (any Laws in a country where an WADA approved action takes place) and ignores the Athletes own statutory rights and some may even argue 'due process' in favour of their own rules.
Where would the best place to test this, yep, in the US. Win there and you basically win everywhere and every Athlete from every Sport will basically give up if accused as the prospect of fighting is a doomed to failure cause.

Will there ever be harmony between WADA/USADA/UCI I can honestly say NO at the moment and every main player needs to removed from all these organisations and replaced with real individuals who have the best interests of Sport at heart.

UCI are a joke for how we see them running Cycling.

WADA are a joke for believing they can circumvent all Human Rights in favour of their own rules without contest as well as demanding their Scientists sign, as a legally binding agreement as part of their employment conditions, they won’t speak about a doping case publically unless approved by an executive and cannot speak about it publically thereafter for 8 years, that why Ashenden quit.

USADA are a joke for cutting Tygarts annual salary and placing him on a performance related pay after which his earning have gone up and the main reason we see such activity from then after the salary change than before.

The IOC must be looking at all of this and think my god how have we managed to create this.

Has a deal been done yet between USADA/WADA/UCI just now, no I don’t believe so but I believe after the FL ruling it shall start and we will likely see the 8 year rule applied and sanctions taken to that point in time, the lifetime ban lifted, the sample testing mooted by USADA binned, UCI receiving approval from USADA/WADA and we shall all move on to the next episode when it all blows up again.

LA will say I don’t care what any of them say I didn’t cheat and continue to do what he does and try to qualify for the 2016 Triathlon Olympics, IOC have a 2 year sanction rule if he still receives a ban that is.

Will I be correct, probably not but I have as much chance as anyone at this moment when we look at the jokers who are actually dealing with the case and from past experience involving UCI that anything can happen! lol.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

The IOC must be looking at all of this and think my god how have we managed to create this.

@Geeman

The IOC are a bigger joke than WADA or USADA.

WADA volunteered to move their headquarters from Switzerland to Canada whilst the IOC still operate in a country that welcomes and condones corruption.

 

[fatandfast]

My take on the UCI suit against Landis is that it really symbolizes the beginning of the end for those in charge at the UCI, and that after mid-October then end is going to come pretty swiftly.

It's a move that really smacks of loud desperation: suing someone to "protect your integrity", someone who you KNOW isn't going to , and can't mount a defense. The UCI aren't going out and suing other people who are saying the same thing, people with the means to protect themselves (like, say, LeMond--as CN pointed out today). Instead they go after a guy living out of tent and an unemployed journalists. Oops...unemployed journalist now has over 50K in his defense war chest, and still counting...and a now high-profile case that some fancy lawyers will take just for good PR since so much attention has been brought to the case. Bet Pat and Hein didn't see that one coming...

By going after what they perceive as the weak while ignoring the strong just reinforces their own position as rats on a sinking ship. To me, it demonstrates that they're pretty much done.

The challenge will be putting in people who aren't carbon copies of what's leaving, and changing the methods by which people get that power in the first place, to avoid the same thing from happening down the road. I think one of the key things in this is that the UCI has to be incorporated in a country that actually has laws. Sorry Switzerland, but you seem to be designed to harbor wealthy corrupt organizations and individuals. You've failed massively on this one.

Did you miss the part(s) where Landis didn't show up? Did you miss Landis speaking about the charges on websites and magazines? The Swiss didn't drop the ball, the balls never made it to the courtroom. Landis is a flake, he has done something similar with every part of his life post dope conviction. It started with I must have got a chemical reaction to Jack Daniels and it will probably end with that also.

 

[GeeMan]

@Geeman

The IOC are a bigger joke than WADA or USADA.

WADA volunteered to move their headquarters from Switzerland to Canada whilst the IOC still operate in a country that welcomes and condones corruption.

I have no issue with what you say about IOC being a joke but remeber WADA has come about from them pushing the need to control doping in Sport in what is meant to be an impartial way.

The proof in the pudding is who gets caught when they do it not years later and we all know the doping regimes are Years ahead of those pursuing them so you could argue that WADA need to employ whatever tactics they need because of this.
The last measurement was the 2012 Olympics when the Doctor in charge of the doping process and reporting was praised for the anti-doping measures and only 4 Athletes being caught. He said these results only show how many Years we are behind, if he knows it then everyone running Sport does.

I look at all large organisations who self control themselves and cant see anything other than who is lining their pockets from it.

They are all a joke and need to massive clean out and start again. When Michael Ashenden is forced to walks away it means its wrong.
Stick him in charge and we may see an end to fools running sport and a true and genuine effort made to clean it up.

 

[thehog]

Did you miss the part(s) where Landis didn't show up? Did you miss Landis speaking about the charges on websites and magazines? The Swiss didn't drop the ball, the balls never made it to the courtroom. Landis is a flake, he has done something similar with every part of his life post dope conviction. It started with I must have got a chemical reaction to Jack Daniels and it will probably end with that also.

Did you miss the part about Hein saying they couldn't find Landis to file the case and all of sudden a judgement was made?

He's also standing up and telling the truth. Something Livestronger is working through on party drugs at age 40 but still in denial. Weak.