Doping hypocrisy

[Benotti69]

Just seen Phil 'I have a tattoo that says clean so i must be right?' Gaimon posting about Mancebo on twitter and others jumping in.

https://twitter.com/philgaimon/status/861435901787783168

This greatly annoys me.

Gaimon was happy to ride with dopers(garmin) and for dopers (vaughters). He still wears cannondale gear a team that was happy to sponsor dopers.

If you are going to call out one doper, you have to call out them all. Otherwise F*** *FF.

Not a peep out of these people about current WT riders. What a bunch of W*****S.

 

[BYOP88]

Mancebo is an easy target. Now if he was having a pop at like his old team boss or TommyD fair enough.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Mancebo is an easy target. Now if he was having a pop at like his old team boss or TommyD fair enough.

That's the thing. He was happy to join a bunch of known dopers and race against a whole peloton full of them and said nothing.

 

[No_Balls]

Re: Re:

Love how he defends himself saying he hasnt talked with Millar "in a long time".

And no we wont see him making publical shaming like this with fellow anglo dopers, and yes playing the Johny foreigner card in order to pretend to be outraged about doping is alive and kicking.

God i hate nationalism.

 

[yaco]

Is Gaimon a convicted doper ? My understanding is he never failed a test - It's up to him if he wants to call out dopers, though I wouldn't waste my breath - Doubt this needs it's own thread.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Is Gaimon a convicted doper ? My understanding is he never failed a test - It's up to him if he wants to call out dopers, though I wouldn't waste my breath - Doubt this needs it's own thread.

Never failed a test! Jeebus what is this 1999????

 

[Arrowfarm]

Re: Re:

Is Gaimon a convicted doper ? My understanding is he never failed a test - It's up to him if he wants to call out dopers, though I wouldn't waste my breath - Doubt this needs it's own thread.

Never failed a test! Jeebus what is this 1999????

In cycling it's always 1999

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Is Gaimon a convicted doper ? My understanding is he never failed a test - It's up to him if he wants to call out dopers, though I wouldn't waste my breath - Doubt this needs it's own thread.

Never failed a test! Jeebus what is this 1999????

In cycling it's always 1999

Seems some fans never learn either

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

Is Gaimon a convicted doper ? My understanding is he never failed a test - It's up to him if he wants to call out dopers, though I wouldn't waste my breath - Doubt this needs it's own thread.

Like with Kittel calling out Mustafa Sayar, though, the issue that people are taking with Gaimon here is not the calling out of dopers but the selectivity of it. Everybody knows Paco was involved in Operación Puerto, he wouldn't even be in those races if he didn't have that history. Although he's never been formally banned, Paco Mancebo has paid a lot more for his sins than a lot of dopers, including a some of the ones that Gaimon previously associated with during his pro level career and especially the ones that took a 3 month winter vacation before continuing at a World Tour team. Paco has been persona non grata at the top level for a decade, which is probably one of the reasons he's still going out there and racing in races like Guadeloupe, the Tour de l'Egypte, US domestic crits and the like into his 40s rather than retiring on a nice earner getting TV jobs and putting books out. Paco's a better example to point to, if you wanted to argue to a young prospective rider that doping doesn't pay, than most guys that have sat out bans.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I can't deny I called Phil Gaimon things yesterday that I wouldn't repeat in here. What an absolute tool.

.. Unfortunately, I can see Im now blocked by the KoM-slayer and just about a bottle carrier for the high-profiled Andrew Talansky that is Phil Gaimon. Ugh. Go tell what you did to Valverde instead of the low hanging fruit that is Mancebo (that people btw know who are and have fond memories of in the biggest of races, aint nobody know what you did apart getting dropped, crying for extreme weather protocols and wearing ugly helmets Philly) #HIPSTERVAUGHTERSANDCREW

 

[Beech Mtn]

Re: Re:

Like with Kittel calling out Mustafa Sayar, though, the issue that people are taking with Gaimon here is not the calling out of dopers but the selectivity of it. Everybody knows Paco was involved in Operación Puerto, he wouldn't even be in those races if he didn't have that history. Although he's never been formally banned, Paco Mancebo has paid a lot more for his sins than a lot of dopers, including a some of the ones that Gaimon previously associated with during his pro level career and especially the ones that took a 3 month winter vacation before continuing at a World Tour team. Paco has been persona non grata at the top level for a decade, which is probably one of the reasons he's still going out there and racing in races like Guadeloupe, the Tour de l'Egypte, US domestic crits and the like into his 40s rather than retiring on a nice earner getting TV jobs and putting books out. Paco's a better example to point to, if you wanted to argue to a young prospective rider that doping doesn't pay, than most guys that have sat out bans.

Damn good post, Libertine.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Funny thing is it wouldn't surprise me if Phil doped to win Strava segments so he could tell how cool he was to his hipster friends at the coffee shops in Colorado or wherever he lives (where wearing a kit bought for under 250 dollars, socks excluded, will deny you entrance). Cause thats how we roll, we upbeat and cool! And we don'r dope!

 

[carton]

Re:

I can't deny I called Phil Gaimon things yesterday that I wouldn't repeat in here. What an absolute tool.

.. Unfortunately, I can see Im now blocked by the KoM-slayer and just about a bottle carrier for the high-profiled Andrew Talansky that is Phil Gaimon. Ugh. Go tell what you did to Valverde instead of the low hanging fruit that is Mancebo (that people btw know who are and have fond memories of in the biggest of races, aint nobody know what you did apart getting dropped, crying for extreme weather protocols and wearing ugly helmets Philly) #HIPSTERVAUGHTERSANDCREW

I've posted on this before, but it keeps happening, and by posters I find generally knowledgeable, reasonable and well-intentioned, and I just find it so very counterproductive. So, what do you want? You'd rather he keep his mouth shut? Say nothing about anyone? Or if he's going to say anything, he has to go after absolutely everyone? All the bike companies need to shut down, since they've sponsored dopers before? All the coaches need to quit, since they've coached dopers before? This is a sensible strategy somehow?

Sure, it's not quite right that Mancebo gets called out more than Millar (although Millar did actually -after he couldn't lie his way out of it- come clean). But it's still right that Mancebo gets called out. Perfection is the enemy of progress. You can disagree on that, sure. Call for more balance. But I'd advise that you do so constructively, as Libertine does. Not just howling at the wind. You might just as quickly scare off everything bar the wolves and the ravens.

And whatever argument you're going to make, "scoreboard" is far and away the most counterproductive of them all. An appeal to authority on literal steroids. Gaimon, making the clean (and I do -call me naive all you want - believe that Gaimon is clean) journeyman the "hero", is exactly what we need. He's Millar-lite in style but the in many ways the anti-Millar in what he actually represents. He's an example that you can wash out of the pro ranks and yet have a voice in this sport, that you can not dope and yet make it. Shutting him down because he didn't have the results of his more enterprising peers is the surest way to signal that doping is the not just tolerable, but the surest path to not just success but respectability as well.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Good post, point/points taken. I was quite possibly overreacting a bit, but I have a really, really hard time having any kind of respect for people like Gaimon. Its just so easy to pick at a rider like Mancebo, who isn't fluent in english at all, on Twitter and act smart and dandy like Gaimon did (in his comments afterwards the reaction he naturally triggered from Mancebo). Which honestly was what pissed me off the most.

I understand where you are going from. Better keep it constructive, thats certainly noted.

 

[ppanther92]

What did Mancebo actually answer? Now there is only this annoyingly snooty response from Gaimon visible anymore "I don't blame you for walking through doors they open for you. I understand your situation. Sorry it's difficult."

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Is Gaimon a convicted doper ? My understanding is he never failed a test - It's up to him if he wants to call out dopers, though I wouldn't waste my breath - Doubt this needs it's own thread.

Never failed a test! Jeebus what is this 1999????

You always give a glib response when called out - It's all and well to have an opinion, but more facts posted is better for The Clinic.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Is Gaimon a convicted doper ? My understanding is he never failed a test - It's up to him if he wants to call out dopers, though I wouldn't waste my breath - Doubt this needs it's own thread.

Like with Kittel calling out Mustafa Sayar, though, the issue that people are taking with Gaimon here is not the calling out of dopers but the selectivity of it. Everybody knows Paco was involved in Operación Puerto, he wouldn't even be in those races if he didn't have that history. Although he's never been formally banned, Paco Mancebo has paid a lot more for his sins than a lot of dopers, including a some of the ones that Gaimon previously associated with during his pro level career and especially the ones that took a 3 month winter vacation before continuing at a World Tour team. Paco has been persona non grata at the top level for a decade, which is probably one of the reasons he's still going out there and racing in races like Guadeloupe, the Tour de l'Egypte, US domestic crits and the like into his 40s rather than retiring on a nice earner getting TV jobs and putting books out. Paco's a better example to point to, if you wanted to argue to a young prospective rider that doping doesn't pay, than most guys that have sat out bans.

I am aware of the Mancebo situation and your last sentence is very pertinent - I don't see the point in Gaimon making any comment on the matter, but ultimately it's his choice - Still don't think it's worthy of its own thread.

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

Is Gaimon a convicted doper ? My understanding is he never failed a test - It's up to him if he wants to call out dopers, though I wouldn't waste my breath - Doubt this needs it's own thread.

Like with Kittel calling out Mustafa Sayar, though, the issue that people are taking with Gaimon here is not the calling out of dopers but the selectivity of it. Everybody knows Paco was involved in Operación Puerto, he wouldn't even be in those races if he didn't have that history. Although he's never been formally banned, Paco Mancebo has paid a lot more for his sins than a lot of dopers, including a some of the ones that Gaimon previously associated with during his pro level career and especially the ones that took a 3 month winter vacation before continuing at a World Tour team. Paco has been persona non grata at the top level for a decade, which is probably one of the reasons he's still going out there and racing in races like Guadeloupe, the Tour de l'Egypte, US domestic crits and the like into his 40s rather than retiring on a nice earner getting TV jobs and putting books out. Paco's a better example to point to, if you wanted to argue to a young prospective rider that doping doesn't pay, than most guys that have sat out bans.

I am aware of the Mancebo situation and your last sentence is very pertinent - I don't see the point in Gaimon making any comment on the matter, but ultimately it's his choice - Still don't think it's worthy of its own thread.

If you don't think it's worth a thread and no one is forcing you to open the thread, why waste the time you have on earth responding to it?

 

[ThePopeOfDope]

Gaimon:
He goes after Mr.Sassquatch for using Strava to advertise his product...
He then proceeds to do the same thing...
Has a go at Horner, because he has a bad reputation (mind you he also never failed a test) and didn't like racing in the States.
He's friends with the likes of Tommy D (convicted doper),Vaughters (convicted doper, Leipheimer (convicted doper)
He has a go at Mancebo because of his Puerto links....
See the issue?
If he where clean he'd tell Tommy D and Leipheimer to go *** themselves because they stole from him. They robbed him of riding a GT and going for a stage or maybe even GC... Instead he uses this as a way to promote himself.
Gaimon the man removing all the doped records on Strava...
Gaimon the rider with the courage to defy the omerta...

 

[veganrob]

Re:

Gaimon:
He goes after Mr.Sassquatch for using Strava to advertise his product...
He then proceeds to do the same thing...
Has a go at Horner, because he has a bad reputation (mind you he also never failed a test) and didn't like racing in the States.
He's friends with the likes of Tommy D (convicted doper),Vaughters (convicted doper, Leipheimer (convicted doper)
He has a go at Mancebo because of his Puerto links....
See the issue?
If he where clean he'd tell Tommy D and Leipheimer to go **** themselves because they stole from him. They robbed him of riding a GT and going for a stage or maybe even GC... Instead he uses this as a way to promote himself.
Gaimon the man removing all the doped records on Strava...
Gaimon the rider with the courage to defy the omerta...

Beautiful post.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Gaimon:
He goes after Mr.Sassquatch for using Strava to advertise his product...
He then proceeds to do the same thing...
Has a go at Horner, because he has a bad reputation (mind you he also never failed a test) and didn't like racing in the States.
He's friends with the likes of Tommy D (convicted doper),Vaughters (convicted doper, Leipheimer (convicted doper)
He has a go at Mancebo because of his Puerto links....
See the issue?
If he where clean he'd tell Tommy D and Leipheimer to go **** themselves because they stole from him. They robbed him of riding a GT and going for a stage or maybe even GC... Instead he uses this as a way to promote himself.
Gaimon the man removing all the doped records on Strava...
Gaimon the rider with the courage to defy the omerta...

Beautiful post.

Indeed. Guy really deserves to be called out for what he is...

 

[hrotha]

I never understood the logic behind "a clean rider couldn't possibly be friends with a doper".

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

I never understood the logic behind "a clean rider couldn't possibly be friends with a doper".

Its a question of consistency. Of course he can be friends with a doper.

 

[veganrob]

He can be friends with known dopers, just don't be a hypocrite about calling out other dopers

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

I never understood the logic behind "a clean rider couldn't possibly be friends with a doper".

The logic is easy.

Someone is cheating you out of money, a career, a better life, a future etc........a friend would not do that to you, if they were a friend.