Doping in amateur cycling - BBC

[Kirsteen]

Hello,
5 Live Investigates at the BBC is trying it find out if doping is an issue in amateur cycling.
We have been told a lot amateur cyclists in the past took drugs used to treat asthma and sometimes amphetamines.
If you can tell us whether or not this is happening now then I’d love to hear from you. Our conversation would be in confidence and for research purposes only. I’m just trying to find out if doping in amateur cycling is something I should spend time looking into or if it no longer happens.
My direct line is 020 3614 0956 and my email is kirsteen.knight@bbc.co.uk
If you are concerned that I am who I say I am please Google “Kirsteen Knight” + BBC or just Goggle my email address. You will see a small trail where I have looked for people to help me with stories in the past.
Best wishes and thanks for your help.
Kirsteen.

 

[blackcat]

Kirsteen, how about you do the story on Sir Chris Hoy, Brad Wiggins, and Mark Cavendish. We dont give a hoot about the amateurs, when we can see these high flying athletes flaunting it.

 

[nevada]

Looks like the omertà extends to fis and clippers too.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Amateur cyclists dope - there are numerous stories around. Visit any *AD (UKAD/ ASADA / USADA) website and look for "sanctions" or similar.

http://www.usada.org/sanctions/
http://www.asada.gov.au/rules_and_violations/sanctions.html


Then consider this: the amateur cyclist gets kudos / fame / glory, fleetingly, and risks suspensions and embarassment to do so.

The professional athlete has the same motivators, plus a multi-million dollar payout. And they can afford trips to remote locations to do the doping in privacy, and afford to engage the best of the best in the medical doping field to make sure they fly under the radar.

Then explain to me why the pro wouldn't do it when the amateur does.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Kirsteen, how about you do the story on Sir Chris Hoy, Brad Wiggins, and Mark Cavendish. We dont give a hoot about the amateurs, when we can see these high flying athletes flaunting it.

Indeed. Kirsteen - why is the BBC so soft on British cycling? Why do you steadfastly refuse to question or challenge Sky and the name British riders about their doping links?

Regarding your story - you might want to PM Daryl Webster and ask him about riding with Shane Sutton.

 

[zebedee]

There's a highly informative story someone posted in one of the threads on the forum here. It told of an amateur rider who'd EPO'd and HGH'd his way from Cat 4 to Cat 2 before being targetted and busted for EPO. His story was published at length in a US article and reproduced here. I can't remember the thread.

The fascinating part for me was the degree of research he had carried out before he actually started his doping, all done using the internet from which I think he was also able to obtain his supply.

 

[Cloxxki]

Kirsteen,
Yes, there are people using athma meds even if they don't need it because they think it will also help a healthy person. If they obsess about this, that's a point won for clean sports.
Let's worry about athletes who takes meds meant to keep cancer patients alive. Methods to give people blood after losing terminally dangerous amounts of their own. Or patients who have messed up hormone profiles.
Those lattter are the meds that don't offer a significant mental advantage such as the petty doping, but in fact take 5 minutes or more off a 30-minute hill climbing effort.

Amateur doping is the result, not the problem. Monkey see, monkey do.
Riders are people, and people take themselves seriously. Difference with amateurs: they're either not good enough, or won't quit their day job. And thanks to hard core doping, pro ranks have been very, VERY inaccessible even to great talents. The difference blood doping bring in performance, makes a truly gifted rider who wins all regional races, a total also-ran and DNF in the pro ranks. As if pro's are a different humanoid race altogether, which is superior in sports.
First expost the UCI please? No stone unturned. And also expose all the ex-pro's all at once vocal about this issue. Like Michael Boogerd. He refused to testify in Austria in the Human Plasma case, but now is the go-to guy for which way the sport should turn. Out these shills.

And also, step past the curtain of Sky's marginal gains. Don't allow attention to be deflected from their false arguments and unacceptable choices in doctors and failing to do the right thing about it when outed.

 

[bobbins]

Take a look at the UKAD website, see which sports have multiple offences and investigate one of them.

Cycling has people taking drugs but then so does every sport so don't single cycling out as having the problem, take a look at number of tests vs number of positives.

 

[ValleyFlowers]

There's a highly informative story someone posted in one of the threads on the forum here. It told of an amateur rider who'd EPO'd and HGH'd his way from Cat 4 to Cat 2 before being targetted and busted for EPO. His story was published at length in a US article and reproduced here. I can't remember the thread.

The fascinating part for me was the degree of research he had carried out before he actually started his doping, all done using the internet from which I think he was also able to obtain his supply.

You might be thinking about this VeloNews report: In search of relevance, a Cat. 3 turns to EPO and HGH
"David Anthony didn’t think they’d test him. It was a gran fondo, and he didn’t win. He’d never been tested before. Why now?"


Also worth a look:
Outside Magazine article by Stuart Stevens: Drug Test
"After the EPO kicked in, I rode a 200-miler and I felt strong, fresh, ready to hammer. The next day I easily could have ridden another 200."

Also worth reading is another Outside article by Andrew Tilin: I Couldn't Be More Positive
"Serving as his own lab rat, an amateur bike racer spent a year taking supplemental testosterone—rumored to be a peloton favorite—to find out if it could transform an average Joe. His conclusion? No doubt about it."

Andrew also published a book about his experience: "The Doper Next Door: My Strange and Scandalous Year on Performance-Enhancing Drugs"

 

[nevada]

Talk to Dan staite.

 

[zebedee]

Interesting articles, Valley. I must have been on about the David Anthony case with some of the details confused as I'd wrongly assumed he'd been buying his gear online. I know the rider was busted, as Anthony discloses.

Just shows what obsessive amateurs will do.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I'd really like to know why the BBC is choosing to focus on amateurs and not on doping by Brits in the professional peloton and on the track.

 

[Spencer the Half Wit]

I'd really like to know why the BBC is choosing to focus on amateurs and not on doping by Brits in the professional peloton and on the track.

Draconian libel laws

 

[hiero2]

Draconian libel laws

Hehehehe! Yeah, that! Meh, the journalists have been like pesky flies on Wiggo's cake - yet they haven't managed to find anything exciting. I don't think that the lack of coverage of Sky is really there. I've seen plenty of coverage - but nobody is finding anything except Wiggo calling folks names.


I remember one racer's comment - he wouldn't have cared if the main prize was a jar of peanut butter - he would still race and love it. With a competitive desire that strong, is it any wonder that a person would try to gain advantage any way they can? When I raced, I knew one or two racers who would have taken any advantage they could. Back then it would have only been speed or steroids, though, and they weren't easy to get. About 15 years ago, I was riding a lot (real life gave me a break), and was hanging about some races (amateur level), and overheard complete strangers pretty openly discussing using ephedra, which floored me. As I recall, it was banned at the time (I've been told it is WADA legal today in small amounts, but since it is illegal to buy or sell, wtf, eh?), so I was shocked at the casualness. The easy implication was that if they could get something stronger, they would. These guys were complete strangers. Talking openly in public. It was the easy casualness of the admitting they would bend or break the rules if they had the chance. The brazenness of the attitude.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Draconian libel laws

Also, don't bite the hand that feeds you.

 

[zebedee]

About 15 years ago, I was riding a lot (real life gave me a break), and was hanging about some races (amateur level), and overheard complete strangers pretty openly discussing using ephedra, which floored me. As I recall, it was banned at the time (I've been told it is WADA legal today in small amounts, but since it is illegal to buy or sell, wtf, eh?), so I was shocked at the casualness. The easy implication was that if they could get something stronger, they would. These guys were complete strangers. Talking openly in public. It was the easy casualness of the admitting they would bend or break the rules if they had the chance. The brazenness of the attitude.

You can buy ephedrine - the real thing, not pseudo - OTC at Boots. It's a nasal decongestant with a slightly stimulant effect. They only let you have 2 packets mind, or do at my branch anyway.

 

[zigmeister]

We have a product in the Us called primatine. The pills are ephedrine and a decongestant.

They had an inhaler, but stupid environmental laws prohbit the expellent to be used. All the asthma patients were destroying the ozone apparently.

All OTC BTW.

You dont even need a TUE for albuterol in the US. Research shows a likely benefit to cardio performance. All legal.

Anyway, why are you guys doing the reporters job for them? This info is all over for US amateur cases.

But, finding peole who will admit and tell about active doping, good luck with the omerta. It is alive and well.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

You might be thinking about this VeloNews report: In search of relevance, a Cat. 3 turns to EPO and HGH
"David Anthony didn’t think they’d test him. It was a gran fondo, and he didn’t win. He’d never been tested before. Why now?"


Also worth a look:
Outside Magazine article by Stuart Stevens: Drug Test
"After the EPO kicked in, I rode a 200-miler and I felt strong, fresh, ready to hammer. The next day I easily could have ridden another 200."

Also worth reading is another Outside article by Andrew Tilin: I Couldn't Be More Positive
"Serving as his own lab rat, an amateur bike racer spent a year taking supplemental testosterone—rumored to be a peloton favorite—to find out if it could transform an average Joe. His conclusion? No doubt about it."

Andrew also published a book about his experience: "The Doper Next Door: My Strange and Scandalous Year on Performance-Enhancing Drugs"

Thankyou for those links - the doping experience sounds incredibly seductive.

 

[peterst6906]

The old saying "the low hanging fruit are the easiest to pluck", comes to mind.

Honestly Kirsteen, cycling is already exposed and in the media enough at the moment for its doping problems.

But what is it about cycling that makes it unique enough for doping only to exist in this 1 sport?

The answer is nothing. Doping in sport is just as prevalent in other sports as it is in cycling. The other sports just don't discuss it or even look at it.

That would be a much more interesting investigation: Doping in sport in general.

Pick any of them, triathlon, football, tennis - amateurs and pros alike, doping exists in them all.

But if the media focus on cycling is preferred, then at least look at the top levels in the sport in the UK. After all, the "investigates" part of the program title should count for something more than a few internet searches, read of open source documents and an interview or two with some friend of a friend of a friend who once saw an amateur without asthma puff on an inhaler before a race.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

+1

I had a first ever look at current sanctions on the ASADA site. There are 24: 10 of them are for body building - 1 for cycling.

SURPRISE!

Not.

 

[peterst6906]

On the whole amateur angle, this Australian doctor might be worth contacting. Claims in the Sydney Morning Herald article to have administered drugs to 5000 competitors, most of them amateurs:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/doctor-sanctions-steroids-20121027-28c9k.html

While Tony Millar's pedigree in sports medicine is very long in Australia, I would suggest that if we followed his advice at the end of the article and got educated people involved, then he has just excluded himself from that set.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

On the whole amateur angle, this Australian doctor might be worth contacting. Claims in the Sydney Morning Herald article to have administered drugs to 5000 competitors, most of them amateurs:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/doctor-sanctions-steroids-20121027-28c9k.html

While Tony Millar's pedigree in sports medicine is very long in Australia, I would suggest that if we followed his advice at the end of the article and got educated people involved, then he has just excluded himself from that set.

That article mentions he started the very first sports medicine clinic. What it doesn't mention is this: he was director of research at said clinic.

 

[enCYCLOpedia]

I listened to the original "peddlers" broadcast and the follow-up. It was good to see so much time dedicated to the topic, and the interviews with Landis, O'Reilly, Ashenden and Bassons in particular were worth listening to. However, the way in which Mr. Millar and especially Mr. Brailsford were played softballs was not worthy of a programme that constantly praised the culture of "investigative" journalism in cycling.

Why did you not even ask Mr. Brailsford about Michael Rogers' connections to Dr. Ferrari, which have been widely reported?
Why not ask him about the reasons for hiring Dr. Leinders?
Why not ask him how in his mind, was it possible that clean riders on his team consistently not only beat, but completely dominate convicted dopers in the Tour this year?
Why not ask him about Dr. Ashenden's recent comments regarding the value of their anti-doping policy, or better yet, have a direct discussion with Mr. Brailsford and Dr. Ashenden?

To be honest, it reminded me of the reports about doping on German television during the Telekom era - we were told about the Festina affair, the suspicions about Armstrong, the Russians, the Spaniards, the Italians and the Belgians, even the odd "black sheep" like Danilo Hondo, but not so much as a bad word was said about our magenta heroes, Zabel, Bölts, Ulrich, Klöden, Heppner, and Aldag, just to name a few. It was a story that was simply too good to be true. The blind faith that Team Sky is "clean by design" is equally naive, and their public statements are clearly not consistent.

I think a report into doping in amateur sports (cycling, but also amateur running, to give just two examples) would be very interesting indeed. More PEDs are sold to amateurs than to professional athletes, so amateurs are very much part of the problem, and vital to keep the "industry" alive. But I can understand the anger expressed in the previous posts, and the unwillingness to cooperate with a programme that appears more interested in a white-washing of British professional cycling than in exposing the truth.

 

[zebedee]

Yes, we mustn't put these undeserving amateurs in the limelight.

Cycling federations should not allow any rider who isn't cat 1 or higher to buy EPO, nor spend more than five quid on a bike.

 

[Turner29]

There is no story. Doping is simply unBritish; thus, no British amateurs dope.