Doping in XC skiing

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Sep 25, 2009
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the latest i heard or read is that usiougov is NOT cleared by the ioc to compete yet.

there was a motion from the russian olympic committee that the ioc by 2 feb (yesterday) include him and the several others acquitted by cas into the participants list. i do not think the ioc heeded it.n stead, threy announced that on 5 feb (?) there will be a special session re. the cas acquitted list. may be ustiuogov will be discussed too.

also, per their lawyers, ustiogov and several others in a separate letter requested the ioc for the specific reasons they are banned from the olympics DESPITE NEVER being suspected of doping.

true to their claim of utter transparency, the ioc simply ignored it.

the rumour said he was banned over some spread sheet (a data base from 2012) that rodchenkov smuggled out to america. of course, if true it would outrageous b/c to have any legal validity a spread sheet like that would need be assured that rodchenkov himself did not type in some names or results. again, true to their claim of utter transparency, the ioc is ABSOLUTE mute here.

i dont think ustiougov himself believes he will go the korea...he'd otherswise abstain from a 50k classic yesterday...
 
Re:

python said:
the latest i heard or read is that usiougov is NOT cleared by the ioc to compete yet.

there was a motion from the russian olympic committee that the ioc by 2 feb (yesterday) include him and the several others acquitted by cas into the participants list. i do not think the ioc heeded it.n stead, threy announced that on 5 feb (?) there will be a special session re. the cas acquitted list. may be ustiuogov will be discussed too.

also, per their lawyers, ustiogov and several others in a separate letter requested the ioc for the specific reasons they are banned from the olympics DESPITE NEVER being suspected of doping.

true to their claim of utter transparency, the ioc simply ignored it.

the rumour said he was banned over some spread sheet (a data base from 2012) that rodchenkov smuggled out to america. of course, if true it would outrageous b/c to have any legal validity a spread sheet like that would need be assured that rodchenkov himself did not type in some names or results. again, true to their claim of utter transparency, the ioc is ABSOLUTE mute here.

i dont think ustiougov himself believes he will go the korea...he'd otherswise abstain from a 50k classic yesterday...
Oh, oh thanks, but why? Hell Lehgkov is allowed to go, so why not Ustiugov. What am I missing here :confused: :confused:
 
Nov 15, 2015
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python said:
a lot of juicy reading....and viewing !

all in advance of the documentaries to be released tonight by the ard and the nrk later next week....Blood doping by the norwegians, swedes, finns, czechs etc exposed naked. several experts talk on camera. the russians are mentioned only occasionally.

as usual, the swedes are self reflective talking at length about their own including one who is almost a certainly a doper (ollson ?) 0n top of the 1st link is a 13-min clip...even if you do not understand scandinavian, check it out.

(swedish)
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/expert-pekar-ut-svensk-akare-pa-lista-over-misstankt-dopning
(norwegian)
https://www.nrk.no/sport/dopingavsloring-ryster-sverige_-_-det-er-kaldblodig-juks-1.13898877
(english - a pay wall but a post above sheds more light)
https://www.nrk.no/sport/dopingavsloring-ryster-sverige_-_-det-er-kaldblodig-juks-1.13898877
Not really. Sares, Andersson (the current team doctor) and Mogren are all defending the obvious doper with an off-score exceeding 130 and huge variations. They're sure there's a natural explanation.
 
The swedish doctor was clearly defensive. In the docunentary's framing, the english speaking expert said he thinks most experts would agree the profile in question is 99,99% surely a doped one, but the swedish doc was one to disagree. Ofc, it is his job.

But from a more the general perspective the docu was done by SVT, which i think is self reflective of the swedes, at least to an extent. They did not just deflect and point fingers.

Ofc, ymmv, because swedish is not my first language. But this was the general impression to me.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Re: Re:

John de Savage said:
python said:
a lot of juicy reading....and viewing !

all in advance of the documentaries to be released tonight by the ard and the nrk later next week....Blood doping by the norwegians, swedes, finns, czechs etc exposed naked. several experts talk on camera. the russians are mentioned only occasionally.

as usual, the swedes are self reflective talking at length about their own including one who is almost a certainly a doper (ollson ?) 0n top of the 1st link is a 13-min clip...even if you do not understand scandinavian, check it out.

(swedish)
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/expert-pekar-ut-svensk-akare-pa-lista-over-misstankt-dopning
(norwegian)
https://www.nrk.no/sport/dopingavsloring-ryster-sverige_-_-det-er-kaldblodig-juks-1.13898877
(english - a pay wall but a post above sheds more light)
https://www.nrk.no/sport/dopingavsloring-ryster-sverige_-_-det-er-kaldblodig-juks-1.13898877
Not really. Sares, Andersson (the current team doctor) and Mogren are all defending the obvious doper with an off-score exceeding 130 and huge variations. They're sure there's a natural explanation.
you are a one-eyed reader with the remaining eye half blind :lol: :D the reference was to a swedish media link focusing on the suspected swedes.
point us to a norwegian media picking up the same story where as the norwegian blood profiles are also implicated.
i can point you to the volumes of norwegian media, not only the medical staff that is supposed to defend them, defending the 90 values, bad instruments etc crap...
 
Nov 15, 2015
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Re: Re:

python said:
John de Savage said:
python said:
a lot of juicy reading....and viewing !

all in advance of the documentaries to be released tonight by the ard and the nrk later next week....Blood doping by the norwegians, swedes, finns, czechs etc exposed naked. several experts talk on camera. the russians are mentioned only occasionally.

as usual, the swedes are self reflective talking at length about their own including one who is almost a certainly a doper (ollson ?) 0n top of the 1st link is a 13-min clip...even if you do not understand scandinavian, check it out.

(swedish)
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/expert-pekar-ut-svensk-akare-pa-lista-over-misstankt-dopning
(norwegian)
https://www.nrk.no/sport/dopingavsloring-ryster-sverige_-_-det-er-kaldblodig-juks-1.13898877
(english - a pay wall but a post above sheds more light)
https://www.nrk.no/sport/dopingavsloring-ryster-sverige_-_-det-er-kaldblodig-juks-1.13898877
Not really. Sares, Andersson (the current team doctor) and Mogren are all defending the obvious doper with an off-score exceeding 130 and huge variations. They're sure there's a natural explanation.
you are a one-eyed reader with the remaining eye half blind :lol: :D the reference was to a swedish media link focusing on the suspected swedes.
point us to a norwegian media picking up the same story where as the norwegian blood profiles are also implicated.
i can point you to the volumes of norwegian media, not only the medical staff that is supposed to defend them, defending the 90 values, bad instruments etc crap...
So far everyone in swedish XC skiing (you can add Grip to the list) has reacted like this:



That was pretty much their reaction to previous SVT blood doping docus as well. Out of whack blood values in norwegian and swedish skiers surely had perfectly natural and innocent explanations. Because everyone knows there's no doping in Scandinavia.
 
Jun 7, 2012
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John de Savage said:
It's not Johan Olsson BTW.

"SVT-reportern Magnus Svenungsson säger till P4 Extra att den svenska åkaren är aktiv i dag."
https://www.expressen.se/sport/os-2018/svenska-medaljorer-misstanks-for-doping/

Olsson is retired. Can't be him.
They say in the SVT video that the blood values from the skiier spans 7 years, so that means something like 2003/2004-2010 I guess. So he was active back then.
Anyone else than Rickardsson that fits these criterias?

Edit : Brink, I guess
 
May 18, 2010
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From the Swedish XC-lineup of that time period, Andes Södergren has higher than normal average hemoglobin. Stated by the medical team in another documentary, I don't remember which one tho..

If you are looking for the 1/10 000 explaination, he is that case. If there are any other racers, like Olsson, Richardsson, Brink, Elofsson, Fredriksson etc. They wouldn't fit the case-description.
 
Jan 3, 2016
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Re: Re:

Now Sweden's Bjørn Ferry says cut state support for XC if there is *one* doping scandal. https://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/i/bKGz9e/ol-mester-ferry-kutt-pengestoetten-dersom-vi-faar-en-svensk-dopingsak
He says: "– shall we show XC on Swedish TV if we get a doping case? Limit it. I mean it very seriously. It's a way for society to say we don't accept this- Otherwise we'll just see it again. We want to see records, but forget the scandals. We still watch the olympics and the TDF despite all the scandals. It's just hypocrisy from everyone. "

He's right.

In the meantime, the explaining away continues, the asthma meds continue and who cares as long as the sponsorship money keeps coming and the right nations get a nice nationalistic buzz.
 
Feb 15, 2014
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Jaco0505 said:
They say in the SVT video that the blood values from the skiier spans 7 years, so that means something like 2003/2004-2010 I guess. So he was active back then.
Anyone else than Rickardsson that fits these criterias?

Edit : Brink, I guess
Not clear if it is "he"?

If not, Britta Johansson Norgren is a candidate, too - competing since 2002 and a successful long distance racer these days.
 
Well, maybe the Americans' sanctimoniousness can be toned down a notch at least.

Ferry has always been a very vocal critic regards doping, even against people who hadn't actively tested positive or been named in anything but whose results/racing got his nose twitching. Remember him being asked about his disappointment at missing out on a medal after finishing 4th at the Antholz World Championships, and him responding "I haven't given up hope yet, he (Deryzemlya) still has to take a leak first"?
 
Nov 15, 2015
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Jaco0505 said:
They say in the SVT video that the blood values from the skiier spans 7 years, so that means something like 2003/2004-2010 I guess. So he was active back then.
Anyone else than Rickardsson that fits these criterias?

Edit : Brink, I guess
Hellner.
 
Nov 15, 2015
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alternator said:
Jaco0505 said:
They say in the SVT video that the blood values from the skiier spans 7 years, so that means something like 2003/2004-2010 I guess. So he was active back then.
Anyone else than Rickardsson that fits these criterias?

Edit : Brink, I guess
Not clear if it is "he"?

If not, Britta Johansson Norgren is a candidate, too - competing since 2002 and a successful long distance racer these days.
Mr 130+ is a man. The gender of the other suspected doper is not specified.
 
I am actually the most curious regarding North Americans. I have a few names from both the US and Canada that are/were suspicious, particularly in that time frame, if not blatantly doping one way or another.

But let's see what comes out of it. Probably more 'evidence' on the Russians. It's excellent timing by the media though, a few days before the Olympics, some of the Russians being cleared by CAS and FIS....Obviously Seppelt and ARD aren't happy with CAS/FIS so he has to rail on some more...
 
Feb 15, 2014
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Re:

python said:
a lot of juicy reading....and viewing !

all in advance of the documentaries to be released tonight by the ard and the nrk later next week....Blood doping by the norwegians, swedes, finns, czechs etc exposed naked. several experts talk on camera. the russians are mentioned only occasionally.

as usual, the swedes are self reflective talking at length about their own including one who is almost a certainly a doper (ollson ?) 0n top of the 1st link is a 13-min clip...even if you do not understand scandinavian, check it out.

(swedish)
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/expert-pekar-ut-svensk-akare-pa-lista-over-misstankt-dopning
(norwegian)
https://www.nrk.no/sport/dopingavsloring-ryster-sverige_-_-det-er-kaldblodig-juks-1.13898877
(english - a pay wall but a post above sheds more light)
https://www.nrk.no/sport/dopingavsloring-ryster-sverige_-_-det-er-kaldblodig-juks-1.13898877
Interesting that France had the highest % athletes with abnormal scores rate after Russia, but I can only remember Vittoz as having had some issue (and that was cleared in the B sample).

The Germans had the second largest absolute number on the list according to the screenshotted article, and became rather more inconsistent after the time of the shouted-down allegations around biathlon and cross-country skiing in 2007/2008. I wonder if the ARD documentary will mention this.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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here's the full Sunday times article. check the link for images.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/blizzard-of-ski-doping-cheats-q3ltj2djm

A secret database reveals that dozens of Olympic medal-winning cross-country skiers have suspicious blood-test results.

The snow was glistening white, but the race was dirty. After 50km of cross-country skiing, three Russian men powered away from the field to claim all three Olympic medals. For the spectators and the millions watching on television, this was the ultimate feat of athleticism and endurance by the team hosting the Winter Games. But all was not what it seemed.

Locked away in the lakeside Swiss offices of the International Ski Federation (FIS) is a set of extraordinary blood-test data that sheds a fresh light on the field that started the race at Sochi 2014.

A leak of the data — seen by The Sunday Times and the German broadcaster ARD — shows that no fewer than 13 of the athletes from different nations on the starting line had previously given blood tests indicating they may have doped.

Seven of the 13 had registered blood scores that had less than a one in 1,000 chance of being natural. One of the skiers leading the pack had once registered a blood score that had only a one in 1m chance of being natural. Yet none of the skiers has ever been punished for doping.

The drugs problem stretched way beyond the Winter Olympics equivalent of the marathon. The FIS database contains more than 10,000 blood-test results from nearly 2,000 cross-country skiers from 2001 to 2010, raising serious questions about the prevalence of cheating in winter sports over many years. Many of those tested are still competing.

Two world-leading experts have analysed the data and found close to one in three medals, including 91 golds, have been won at Olympics and world championships since 2001 by athletes whose blood-test results were judged to be suspicious by at least one of them.

The evidence casts a dark shadow over the skiing competitions at the 2018 Winter Olympics — which begin in Pyeongchang, South Korea, this week — and highlights the severe difficulties faced by the authorities attempting to police endurance sports.

Only last week, the International Olympic Committee’s right to ban suspected dopers was dealt a body blow by a decision by the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS), which has overturned bans against 39 Russian Winter Olympic competitors.

Among them was the winner of the Sochi 50km race, Alexander Legkov. After his victory, his name appeared on a leaked list of Russian athletes who had allegedly been given a potent mix of performance-enhancing drugs as part of a state-run programme to bring sporting glory to the home country.

The drug mix — known as the “duchess cocktail” — had been devised by Grigory Rodchenkov, the former Russian head of anti-doping who blew the whistle on the state-sponsored cheating two years ago in the aftermath of this newspaper’s doping allegations.

Rodchenkov has provided testimony that Legkov’s drug-test sample was switched with clean urine on the evening of his gold medal win. It is alleged that Russian agents took and returned scores of samples using a mouse hole in the wall of the anti-doping lab at Sochi.

On examination, it was discovered that Legkov’s sealed drug-test bottle had been tampered with, as Rodchenkov had claimed. Legkov, however, denied taking performance-enhancing substances — and on Thursday the CAS ruled that the evidence against him did not prove he had actually taken banned substances.

Legkov and Maxim Vylegzhanin, his teammate who took silver in the 50km race, had their life bans from the Olympics overturned. Their medals have been restored and the Russian Olympic committee is now pushing for them to be allowed to compete in South Korea.

In fact, no action has been taken against any of the 13 skiers in the 50km race in regard to their abnormal blood-test scores, despite some strikingly extreme results in the past.

The database was passed to the German broadcaster ARD and The Sunday Times by a whistleblower who was concerned that the South Korean Games might be compromised by cheats.

Across the database, more than 290 skiers recorded abnormal scores. In­deed, gold medals have been won in the skiing cross-country events at every Winter Olympics since 2002 by skiers whose blood tests were abnormal. This included nine gold medals in one Games.

The baseline for abnormal is any score that has less than a one in 100 chance of being natural. Many athletes were far beyond that point. Experts say such figures suggest many skiers were using banned performance-enhancing substances such as erythropoietin (EPO) or were illegally transfusing stored bags of their own blood to boost their red cell count.

In 2015 The Sunday Times and ARD revealed a similarly vast database of blood-test figures that exposed the unprecedented scale of cheating in track-and-field athletics. Russia emerged in the data as the blood-doping centre of the world, with 80% of the country’s medals being won by athletes who had given a suspicious blood-test score.

Since then, investigations commissioned by the World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada) have revealed how Russia ran a state-sponsored doping programme that extended to at least 30 sports.

In the skiing database, Russia again emerges as the world leader in the winter sports cheating table. More than 76% of cross-country skiing medals awarded to the country were won by skiers with abnormal blood-test results.

Other countries also had big doping problems. More than 100 medals have been won by skiers from Norway, Germany, Sweden and Italy who recorded results that were judged to be suspicious by at least one of the experts.

In terms of the highest number of athletes with abnormal test results overall, Russia was the worst offender with 51, followed by Germany (20), France (18), Austria (16), Norway (16), Finland (15), Italy (12), Sweden (12), America (12), Switzerland (11) and Canada (10).

Some of the suspicious tests were taken at the time the skier won the medal, while others were at different events or during out-of-competition training.

Both experts were deeply concerned by the evidence in the database. The first specialist asked to remain anonymous for fear of a backlash from the sport’s authorities. He expressed his bewilderment that only one skier had been banned by the FIS on the basis of the biological passport, which was introduced nine years ago to clamp down on blood doping.

Possible explanations he cited for the lack of action included cheats increasing the sophistication of their doping techniques or anti-doping agencies “not being sharp” in their testing strategies. He cited a previous case in which a drug tester had given athletes prior warning before they were tested.

The other expert, the US physician James Stray-Gundersen, has advised the FIS’s medical committee and worked with Wada. He had previously carried out doping prevalence research on cross-country skiers and found about half of the top 10 finishers in the 2001 world championships had highly abnormal blood profiles that were strongly suggestive of doping.

However, he said there was “considerable resistance” to his findings and his life was subsequently “made difficult”. At one event, his accreditation was cancelled for no apparent reason. “The only conclusion I can draw is that either it was some strange coincidence or people didn’t like hearing the information that we had,” he said.

The FIS declined to comment on the “suspicious” blood-test results other than to say Wada was “more than satisfied” with its anti-doping efforts.
 
About 1/3 of medals awarded had been to athletes with at least one suspicious reading between 2001-2010.

Seems about right. The devil will be in the details.
* How have they counted?
* Are medal winners who were caught at the time and relieved of their medals counted?
* How many suspicious readings did an individual have? I.E. was there a systematic pattern that persisted over several championships at different attitudes( IIRC the last blood race had A Aukland pointed out with suspicious values, the funny thing was his values seemed to correlate perfectly with the altitude of the event. The higher the altitdue the higher his HGB. Which means he raced clean in lowland races and dirty at altitude. :confused: Which doesn't make any sense, meaning there is likely a natural explanation for it.)
* Did the anomolos readings occur at times when it didn't make sense for them to be high for a doping program?
* Were their results much better at times when these elevated scores occured?
* Was the equipment used for the testing of same/similar type?
* Is the data only fis/ioc data or is data from national antidoping authorities included?

Thankfully it seems they have hematocrit and Reticulocytes included which should make it a bit more scientific to point out what is suspicious and what is not. And thankfully UG is only one of several to have the info, since my confidence in Uppdrag gransknings staff has dropped to zero. Interesting that they don't name anyone this time. Perhaps it's because Swedes are involved this time.

ps. Thanks for the article Python!
 
Oct 18, 2016
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Not exactly 1/3, but 46%, which is a lot more. Apart from that, it isn't medals between 2001 and 2010 but 2001 and 2017, i.e. over a much longer time period.
 
Re:

Erwin said:
Not exactly 1/3, but 46%, which is a lot more. Apart from that, it isn't medals between 2001 and 2010 but 2001 and 2017, i.e. over a much longer time period.
Are you sure?

Also they have set a very low bar for suspicious needing only one expert for it to be labeled as such. The ABP needs IIRC three experts to all agree to initiate a process.
 
Jan 3, 2016
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ToreBear said:
Erwin said:
Not exactly 1/3, but 46%, which is a lot more. Apart from that, it isn't medals between 2001 and 2010 but 2001 and 2017, i.e. over a much longer time period.
Are you sure?

Also they have set a very low bar for suspicious needing only one expert for it to be labeled as such. The ABP needs IIRC three experts to all agree to initiate a process.
There's none so blind as those that will not see.
 
Feb 15, 2015
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John de Savage said:
Jaco0505 said:
They say in the SVT video that the blood values from the skiier spans 7 years, so that means something like 2003/2004-2010 I guess. So he was active back then.
Anyone else than Rickardsson that fits these criterias?

Edit : Brink, I guess
Hellner.
Hellner debuted in the world cup in 2006.

I didn't catch the 7 years thing in the short SVT video, though. What time was in mentioned at?
 

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