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Doping with Perfluorocarbon

Aug 13, 2009
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DirtyWorks said:
The technical aspects of Perfluorocarbon blood replacement are completely out of my league.

Half-life of 4-6 hours.
Comparable oxygen carrying capacity as blood.

Has WADA banned this class of oxygen delivery?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_substitute#Perfluorocarbon_based

It is banned and it is deadly.

Mauro Gianetti, former Swiss Pro and current manager of the Geox team, almost died from using them. 10 days in the Hospital.....UCI did nothing and the Swiss named him to the 2000 Olympic team
 
Dec 7, 2010
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I accuse the two of you Dirty works and RR of practicing pseudo science! Pseudo Scientist! Those guys will try anything even something that will sack them to the hospital for a prolonged period of time. For the sake of argument if a team or a individual could have a perfected system for this oxygen delivery system then it is virtually undetectable unless of course you wind up in the Hospital!
 
Glenn_Wilson said:
.. For the sake of argument if a team or a individual could have a perfected system for this oxygen delivery system then it is virtually undetectable unless of course you wind up in the Hospital!

Well, look at the glass half full for a minute. Let's pretend perflourocarbons worked out as a great PED for cycling. If you are smart enough to keep it to yourself, an 'average' rider could become multiple TdF champion. After a while Pat and Hein will even help inflate the myth.

Ringing any bells? ..... Maybe one?
 
Dec 7, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
Well, look at the glass half full for a minute. Let's pretend perflourocarbons worked out as a great PED for cycling. If you are smart enough to keep it to yourself, an 'average' rider could become multiple TdF champion. After a while Pat and Hein will even help inflate the myth.

Ringing any bells? ..... Maybe one?

yes it does but I am not willing to name the rider we are both probably noting on this but hell I am I sure the whirl wind will show up soon.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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DirtyWorks said:
Well, look at the glass half full for a minute. Let's pretend perflourocarbons worked out as a great PED for cycling. I
Ringing any bells? ..... Maybe one?
as rr said, they are deadly and there are several threads here describing them...and you should know better than taking a clown with the record of infatuation for the rider you implied too seriously ;) ask around if in doubt.
 
Glenn_Wilson said:
........... then it is virtually undetectable unless of course you wind up in the Hospital!

PFC undetectable?
That's a little bit silly. I am no chemist and no medical Dr, but I know enough to suggest a very simple detection method.
After you absorb your PFC I would put you in a room with a gas chromatographer.
Soon the machine will confirm that PFC oozes out of you.
 
Race Radio said:
It is banned and it is deadly.

Mauro Gianetti, former Swiss Pro and current manager of the Geox team, almost died from using them. 10 days in the Hospital.....UCI did nothing and the Swiss named him to the 2000 Olympic team

A bit of applied information: PFC first made an appearance during the 1998 season, which was the year of Gianetti's collapse as described by RR above. Willy Voet was also transporting it when arrested prior to that year's Tour.

Since then, it has all but disappeared from reported doping cases, presumably because as RR also indicates, it is highly dangerous, yet also quite difficult to detect.

It pops up again in April 2010, when the homes of Lorenzo Bernucci, Filippo Manelli (the obligatory endocrinologist) and Alessandro Petacchi were searched by police. Bernucci was alleged to have been in possession of PFCs at that time.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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L'arriviste said:
A bit of applied information: PFC first made an appearance during the 1998 season, which was the year of Gianetti's collapse as described by RR above. Willy Voet was also transporting it when arrested prior to that year's Tour.

Since then, it has all but disappeared from reported doping cases, presumably because as RR also indicates, it is highly dangerous, yet also quite difficult to detect.

It pops up again in April 2010, when the homes of Lorenzo Bernucci, Filippo Manelli (the obligatory endocrinologist) and Alessandro Petacchi were searched by police. Bernucci was alleged to have been in possession of PFCs at that time.
all good information. it was posted in various threads here including titled specifically after pfc.

you may also want to add to your data base (shouldn't be difficult to source) wada's ayotte's comments on pfc...(paraphrasing from memory) - when asked about it, she said something like this, 'we tried many peds on ourselves to test out detectability, but i wont touch this stuff'
 
When did the cause of Gianetti's hospitalizaton become known? I don't remember hearing the story back then, so I don't know if PFC was immediately speculated or known to be the cause. I'm imagining a scenario comparable to Riccò's, only with far less pressure for the UCI to investigate.
 
hrotha said:
When did the cause of Gianetti's hospitalizaton become known? I don't remember hearing the story back then, so I don't know if PFC was immediately speculated or known to be the cause. I'm imagining a scenario comparable to Riccò's, only with far less pressure for the UCI to investigate.

When did the cause of Gianetti's hospitalizaton become known?

I would say immediately. Just a few days after there articles in the papers here in Switzerland because there was a complaint filed by one of the Drs, quite well known, in Lausanne who helped save Gianetti.
There was also a warning issued by the UCI within days.
None of those 2 actions specifically named PFC.
However, it so happened that in the same month there was a feature article in Scientific American about blood substitutes, and of course PFCs.

I called a friend of mine who was at the time closely connected with pro cycling and he verified that my intuition that PFC was behind all this was correct.

If I could put 2 and 2 together obviously others could too.
Added in proof .
Dr Gremion who filed the complaint was not in the medical team who saved Gianetti
http://www.cyclisme-dopage.com/actualite/1998-10-08-lemonde.htm