Dr. Bellocq's "Hormone Rebalancing Therapy"

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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Dr Bellocq was a Sports/Cycling Doc back in the 80's and early 90"s.
His client list included Hinault & LeMond, Robert Millar, Duclos-Lassalle, Jean-François Bernard, Ronan Pensec and Pascal Simon.

According to this article in Podium Cafe

Bellocq's speciality was hormone rebalancing therapy. In 1991, he published a book, Sport et Dopage - Le Grande Hypocrisie, which explained his thinking: "I believe that the limits of sports medicine amount to stopping an athlete from digging into his body's resources, and replenishing a body from which professional sport demands so much."
//www.podiumcafe.com/2011/2/23/2010343/LeMaillotJauneBlanchi

I agree with Hinault below, especially when it comes to medical check-ups.
But would this type of program be legal in this day and age?

Generally though Bellocq's clients seem to agree with their doctor's theories. Consider, for instance, Bernard Hinault who - interviewed in 1988 for Tonus, a medical magazine - had this to say: "There should be systematic check-ups every month. That way the products that are forbidden now would be allowed, albeit in reasonable quantities. There are some hormones that could be used, no problem, as long as their use was in conjunction with a monthly medical check-up. I agree with Dr François Bellocq, who was my doctor, when it comes to these kinds of treatments."
Others seemed to agree also:

Philippe Brunel interviewed le blaireau for l'Equipe in 1999 and asked if he favoured hormone rebalancing: "Yes, perhaps, with one condition, that it be strictly controlled. Hormones are given to bed-ridden elderly to regulate mineral levels so that they do not degrade too much, so why not? It's necessary to study the issue, to approach it with caution."

I know most in the Clinic will disagree with Mr Hinault on this final point.
Has Bernard ever changed his opinion on this? Backtracked? FlipFlopped?
Not that I would ever accuse Mr Hinault of flipflopping...he'd kick my ***
Bernard Hinault said:
It suffices to take some of one's own blood during the spring when it is rich, hyper-oxygenated, and to re-inject it when one is fatigued. Is that really doping? Maybe not, except if the blood is placed into a machine to re-oxygenate it to the maximum."
 
Nov 20, 2010
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Bellocq and his approach are very old school. He was loved by his clients more for his compassion for their suffering than for any real performance assistance. Ironically, Bellocq's approach was similar to the 50 limit set for blood in the days prior to an EPO test.

When Bellocq died during the 1993 Giro, Lemond, who was racing it, was reported by L'Equipe to be visibly upset by the news.

But, to answer your question--Bellocq's hormonal adjustments were generally considered doping.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Cimacoppi49 said:
Bellocq and his approach are very old school. He was loved by his clients more for his compassion for their suffering than for any real performance assistance. Ironically, Bellocq's approach was similar to the 50 limit set for blood in the days prior to an EPO test.

When Bellocq died during the 1993 Giro, Lemond, who was racing it, was reported by L'Equipe to be visibly upset by the news.

But, to answer your question--Bellocq's hormonal adjustments were generally considered doping.
He was. In fact he was the only rider that the media could get to a comment from, the rest pretended they did not know him. Greg didn't have a problem talking about him as he had never been a customer of his. In fact when PDM tried to push Greg to use Testosterone Greg negotiated an exit from his contract. He wanted no part of it.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Here's what Greg said about PDM in an interview with L'Express in 2007:

It is probably in 1988, the year after my hunting accident, I came closest to doping. I signed with the Dutch team PDM and they decided to try "things" with the cyclists. Their doctor said that I should "rebalance" physiologically, because the last year I lost a lot of blood. Fortunately, that season, I hardly raced. However, Gert-Jan Theunisse, a leading rider, was excluded from the Tour after testing positive for testosterone.

http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/sport/les-coureurs-dopes-sont-comme-des-toxicomanes_476155.html?p=2

Richard Moore linked Lemond to Bellocq in his book "In Search of Robert Millar", which is a source for that Podium Cafe post. But I asked Richard about it a few years ago and he couldn't confirm it, saying it may be untrue. If it was true it would surely be in his new book, "Slaying the Badger", which came out last summer but I haven't had the chance to read that.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Epicycle said:
Here's what Greg said about PDM in an interview with L'Express in 2007:

It is probably in 1988, the year after my hunting accident, I came closest to doping. I signed with the Dutch team PDM and they decided to try "things" with the cyclists. Their doctor said that I should "rebalance" physiologically, because the last year I lost a lot of blood. Fortunately, that season, I hardly raced. However, Gert-Jan Theunisse, a leading rider, was excluded from the Tour after testing positive for testosterone.

http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/sport/les-coureurs-dopes-sont-comme-des-toxicomanes_476155.html?p=2

Richard Moore linked Lemond to Bellocq in his book "In Search of Robert Millar", which is a source for that Podium Cafe post. But I asked Richard about it a few years ago and he couldn't confirm it, saying it may be untrue. If it was true it would surely be in his new book, "Slaying the Badger", which came out last summer but I haven't had the chance to read that.
I have read his new book, it is great. There is zero mention of Lemond and Bellocq. In fact much of the LeMond portion of the book gives stories of how anti-dope Greg was from an early age. When Bellocq's office was raided they found a list of his customers......Greg's name was not on it
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Fuentes says the same thing. It's a good euphemism. Hard training or racing tends to dramatically lower hormone levels, especially when coupled with a restricted calorie diet to keep weight down or when you can't take in enough calories like during a stage race.

Other sports have this debate over hormone replacement treatment for older athletes, since testosterone levels decrease with age. Should older athletes have to accept their declining testosterone levels and performance decline, or should they be able to boost their levels to stay competitive? Of course giving out HRT exemptions freely opens up a lot of room for abuse.
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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Race Radio said:
He was. In fact he was the only rider that the media could get to a comment from, the rest pretended they did not know him. Greg didn't have a problem talking about him as he had never been a customer of his. In fact when PDM tried to push Greg to use Testosterone Greg negotiated an exit from his contract. He wanted no part of it.
I CAN accept the fact that Greg recieved only "Training Advice" from 2 of the most notorious doping coachs of the 80's.
Eddie B and Mr Bellocq. Just friends. Just advice. I can accept that.

But I CANNOT accept the myth that Greg was a bumpkin who did not know what was going on in the 80's doping wise. That is a silly myth.
Greg is and was very sharp. He knew better than most anyone imo.
That whole playing dumb is dumb.

But I do not want to derail this thread with your fanboyism.

Back on topic, I would argue that Bellocq was ahead of his time.
Compassion for a rider's health was a good attitude.
Doctor monitored replenishment and recovery.
Being more liberal with medications and techniques that are truly healthy for a rider.
You know, there was a time not long ago when the TdF had its own Doctors. Doctors who would keep tabs on the riders health. Pre Tour medical check etc.
But the ASO/TdF stopped doing that. Now they leave it up to the individual Team Docs. Sky have their own Doctors. Radioshack have theirs. BMC another set of Docs. Garmin etc. Every team have their own Doctors and Health Professionals/Coachs and procedures and programs.

Maybe all the Doctor's etc should be employed by WADA and subcontracted out to the Teams. Or maybe not WADA but an a organization looking out for the rider's health. Independent of the teams themselves.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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Polish said:
I CAN accept the fact that Greg recieved only "Training Advice" from 2 of the most notorious doping coachs of the 80's.
Eddie B and Mr Bellocq. Just friends. Just advice. I can accept that.

But I CANNOT accept the myth that Greg was a bumpkin who did not know what was going on in the 80's doping wise. That is a silly myth.
Greg is and was very sharp. He knew better than most anyone imo.
That whole playing dumb is dumb.

But I do not want to derail this thread with your fanboyism.
I am glad you don't accept a myth that that only exists in your head.


Polish said:
Back on topic, I would argue that Bellocq was ahead of his time.
Compassion for a rider's health was a good attitude.
Doctor monitored replenishment and recovery.
Being more liberal with medications and techniques that are truly healthy for a rider.
You know, there was a time not long ago when the TdF had its own Doctors. Doctors who would keep tabs on the riders health. Pre Tour medical check etc.
But the ASO/TdF stopped doing that. Now they leave it up to the individual Team Docs. Sky have their own Doctors. Radioshack have theirs. BMC another set of Docs. Garmin etc. Every team have their own Doctors and Health Professionals/Coachs and procedures and programs.
Wait -this thread had a topic, beyond trolling?

Polish said:
Maybe all the Doctor's etc should be employed by WADA and subcontracted out to the Teams. Or maybe not WADA but an a organization looking out for the rider's health. Independent of the teams themselves.
A better idea would be that Doctors within teams be assigned to particular riders - if that rider goes positive or gets caught in any way, the Doctor gets the boot too.
 
Classic Troll post. Wait for more subtle digs at Lemond folks. The troll's 'trap' has been set and I'm sure he is waiting with quivering breath to let loose. Could have been an interesting topic too.
 
Mar 19, 2011
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Race Radio said:
He was. In fact he was the only rider that the media could get to a comment from, the rest pretended they did not know him. Greg didn't have a problem talking about him as he had never been a customer of his. In fact when PDM tried to push Greg to use Testosterone Greg negotiated an exit from his contract. He wanted no part of it.
When Greg Lemond left PDM he adduced breach of contract, not PDM doping practices.

And I ask you over here, how are you so sure that Lemond never worked with Bellocq? Were you by his side at all times? Has he ever stated so?

And not only Richard Moore has linked him to docteur Bellocq. In fact Moore says in his book that it was Pascal Simon who said so. A funny thing to say if it wasn't true by the way.
 
May 26, 2010
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Albatros said:
When Greg Lemond left PDM he adduced breach of contract, not PDM doping practices.

And I ask you over here, how are you so sure that Lemond never worked with Bellocq? Were you by his side at all times? Has he ever stated so?

And not only Richard Moore has linked him to docteur Bellocq. In fact Moore says in his book that it was Pascal Simon who said so. A funny thing to say if it wasn't true by the way.
Still trolling and still failing.
 
Oct 4, 2011
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Dr. Maserati said:
I am glad you don't accept a myth that that only exists in your head.



Wait -this thread had a topic, beyond trolling?


A better idea would be that Doctors within teams be assigned to particular riders - if that rider goes positive or gets caught in any way, the Doctor gets the boot too.
Why exactly do teams need doctors for training ? What can a doctor bring that a coach or other sports expert cannot ? Im sick of doctors consulting in cycling, it stinks. Fix broken bones fine, give medical treatment when needed.....like when your sick not when you need a boost to win a tour!!

Hinaults mind on the subject is that of a doper, any talk of allowing treatments is IMO from dopers. People want the sport to be clean, if that attitude stays around then drugs will always be a problem as people believe its ok and not really cheating.Pathetic .
 
Polish said:
Dr Bellocq was a Sports/Cycling Doc back in the 80's and early 90"s.
...
Sorry, he was a character in Indiana Jones. And, while I welcome you back, please allow me to quote him:

"Again we see there is nothing you can possess which I cannot take away"

Dave.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Albatros said:
When Greg Lemond left PDM he adduced breach of contract, not PDM doping practices.

And I ask you over here, how are you so sure that Lemond never worked with Bellocq? Were you by his side at all times? Has he ever stated so?

And not only Richard Moore has linked him to docteur Bellocq. In fact Moore says in his book that it was Pascal Simon who said so. A funny thing to say if it wasn't true by the way.
http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-25/sports/sp-95_1_greg-lemond

Lemond left PDM because they tried to push him to use Testosterone. The evidence of LeMond doping exists only in the hopes and dreams of trolls
 
Aug 3, 2009
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Susan Westemeyer said:
Polish is still banned for another two months. Did anyone bother to look at the date of the original posting?

Details, details, details......... important little things, they are.....

Susan
Who bumped it then? Your post from the morning is the first since 2011. Did someone sneak back in and delete a post after bumping the thread?

Sneaky, sneaky, sneaky...
 
May 26, 2010
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MacRoadie said:
Who bumped it then? Your post from the morning is the first since 2011. Did someone sneak back in and delete a post after bumping the thread?

Sneaky, sneaky, sneaky...
I guess Albatross's dross was cleaned out and my response to it :)
 
Aug 3, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
I guess Albatross's dross was cleaned out and my response to it :)
Cool. Hopefully this thread will drift off the first page into obscurity, and if any MEANINGFUL and CURRENT information arises, it can be delt with in the appropriate thread.

ETA: I wasn't suggesting that a mod was being sneaky, but we've seen before where a toll will come in and bump an old thread then come back and delete their original post...
 
May 26, 2010
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MacRoadie said:
Cool. Hopefully this thread will drift off the first page into obscurity, and if any MEANINGFUL and CURRENT information arises, it can be delt with in the appropriate thread.
It should be closed.
 
Aug 3, 2009
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D-Queued said:
Especially now that Albatros has posted this stuff as his/her major (!) surprise unveiling on the other thread...

Dave.
You mean all this stuff that was bandied about on forums starting way back in 2006 or 2007? It seems to pop up every couple of years or so...then scurries back off into the shadows...
 
Aug 7, 2010
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Cimacoppi49 said:
Bellocq and his approach are very old school. He was loved by his clients more for his compassion for their suffering than for any real performance assistance. Ironically, Bellocq's approach was similar to the 50 limit set for blood in the days prior to an EPO test.

When Bellocq died during the 1993 Giro, Lemond, who was racing it, was reported by L'Equipe to be visibly upset by the news.

But, to answer your question--Bellocq's hormonal adjustments were generally considered doping.
In 1988, I was at a dinner with some people from Look, including Hinault. Among may topics discussed, he shared that he was a believer in homeopathic products as supplements. (notwithstanding Dr Mabuse.... )

The subject of dopnig never really came up, but it was clear to him that his tendinitis could have been successfully treated at onset with anti-inflammatory products that were considered banned at the time. We all know that he had serious surgery that luckily went well, but he did go through a complete repositioning from Claude Genzling who was able to make the biomechanical changes to relieve the loads on the tendon. he was still great, but not who he was before the surgery.

He went on to say that he felt that cyclists should be followed more closely by empowered medical authorities that would determine if the use of some banned products would be the best course of action to treat injury. Never once in the conversation was there a nuance of enhancing performance. Always about keeping injuries and health related down-time to a minimum.

Bearing in mind that an argument could be made about keeping hematocrit hiigh for 'health purposes', the nature of doping in that era was still about output, not recovery.

In today's world, hormone rebalancing is clearly doping. But in the 80's, it may have been seen as very 'passive' health management.

Looking at the famous JV bee sting incedent, a compelling argument can be made that he would have gotten the shot had he walked into an emergency room anywhere in France. But since he rides a bike in the TDF, he would be deprived of basic health care available to anyone.

All of this to say that in the context of the 80's, where there was nothing like EPO, aranesp, and all the other 5hit they are ingesting today.....we should be mindful that a statement made about 'rebalancing' was along the lines of staying within healthy boundaries, and not from a mindset of cheating.

Yes, slippery slope and all of that ......I am not advocating doping by any means, but the cheaters have effectively eliminated the ethical therapeutic use of products that would otherwise be the first course of treatment for some conditions.
 

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