Dumb Courteous Drivers

[ggusta]

Be a traffic cop when needed, when eye contact is not enough, the cyclist can use a hand to express who should do what. Pointing at someone gets their attention quick.

If you decide to take an active role (waving someone around, etc) just be DEAD CERTAIN that you are absolutely providing good information. You could bring liability upon yourself if someone acts on your wave and then it wasn't quite as safe as you had first thought.

If you have the slightest doubt, do NOT wave anyone on. Having said that, I do so regularly, with the above caveat.

 

[Nick C.]

I'm not even getting this thread anymore. There's two people at an intersection where they both can't go thru at the same time without colliding and the idea that they would try to communicate with non-verbal gestures is somehow demeaning or worse. Really????

 

[datalore]

By stopping everyone and trying to make you go first, they're asserting their control over this little piece of road.

My sister does this at every four-way stop, and she does it with a tiny wave of the finger that is probably not visible from across an intersection. The fact is that she just doesn't pay attention to what others are doing when she rolls up to an intersection, and waves others on because she doesn't know who has the right of way. I don't ride in her car anymore.

 

[datalore]

I'm not even getting this thread anymore. There's two people at an intersection where they both can't go thru at the same time without colliding and the idea that they would try to communicate with non-verbal gestures is somehow demeaning or worse. Really????

It sounds like you don't understand traffic law. One person has a legal right to go first. There is no need for further communication, but some people insist on needlessly slowing things down and putting others at risk so that they can give up their right of way. There are times when it is fine to give up your rights in an attempt to be nice to others, but those do not include situations in which everyone has to work together for things to happen quickly and safely.

 

[Nick C.]

I understand it perfectly. Typically the car to the right or the car that gets to the intersection first has the right of way. But as a matter of practical application you must then assume that everyone else knows the traffic law, which varies from jurisdiction to jurisdictin, and intends to follow it. That is why people generally wave each other thru. The theory as I understand it is in part if the other person is gone and there are no others than you have increased your chances of getting hit a thousand fold. Sort of self-preservation.

 

[datalore]

But as a matter of practical application you must then assume that everyone else knows the traffic law, which varies from jurisdiction to jurisdictin, and intends to follow it.

Yes, we all have to make that assumption to be able to drive safely. You can't pull up to an intersection assuming that no one is going to behave in an orderly manner. As far as I'm concerned, if a person doesn't know or intend to follow traffic law, they have no business operating a vehicle on public roads.

 

[stainlessguy1]

4 way stop intersections

The most frustrating thing in North America is the 4 way stop at an intersection. As posters already mentioned and all the issues and reasons behind that road experience is no match for the fact that North America uses 2 systems at the said intersection. The old system was that the 2 opposing drivers almost alway left their stop in unison and then the drivers at 90 degrees left their stops next.
This worked for many years. Then one day the news cast starts telling us the driver to the right has the right of way, and starts the circle of next as he was there first and goes next.
So here in starts the problem, most cant remember who is next with 2 lanes never mind 4 lanes or in some provinces ( quebec ) 6 lanes with stops every 300 meters to slow traffic down in subdivision areas .
Add to this many drivers who never drove internationally were never taught the other system and are now expected to adapt and try to apply this to multi lane stop signed roads.

The issue in Quebec i talk about has at least 3 cars lined up in each lane going north and the same going south with hundreds of cars deep in both directions. ( Never mind east or west) .
The trick is to gun it All of the cars leave the line at the same time when its your turn in both directions do the 300 meters or less and screech to a stop.
This process is repeated at least 6 times or more i cant remember. There is no way a car from the right can determine a right of way with the rule to the right on this road.
If you are comming out of the subdivision from east or west , you have to gun it when the six cars come to a stop all at the same time or you lose your turn. ha ha . Yes this is a rush hour issue and quite exciting when your in it, kindof mental if you are from the country.

I suppose for the rest of the older folks the old rule doesnt work so bad either and is a lot easier to remember when its your turn to go . I would say if the roads are ever increasing in width from 2 lanes to 4 and 6 lane 4way stops, then revisiting the old way might be a good idea.
If anyone thinks i am wrong and i might be , then just see what happens when the power goes out and you are driving in a busy 6 plus lane road in a shopping district. The traffic snarls and grinds to a halt in no time flat as people just cant cope with all the traffic . who goes next? . ( and then the cell phone rings . lol ) Never mind a cyclist in the mix of all this.
The only option a cyclist has is to go with the flow, if an entire row of cars 3 or 4 wide cross an intersection then you go with that flow.
Personally i suggest to stay off those roads if you can. Its Mental .

 

[Boeing]

Is there a thread for dumb courteous bike riders as well?

 

[datalore]

The most frustrating thing in North America is the 4 way stop at an intersection. As posters already mentioned and all the issues and reasons behind that road experience is no match for the fact that North America uses 2 systems at the said intersection. The old system was that the 2 opposing drivers almost alway left their stop in unison and then the drivers at 90 degrees left their stops next.

In Ontario (where I reside), the rule about yielding the right-of-way to the vehicle approaching from the right only applies to cases in which two cars stop in unison, which is somewhat rare. In general, the car that stops first gets the right-of-way, which tends to give you the older system that you were referring to.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety/yield.shtml

 

[benpounder]

The most frustrating thing in North America is the 4 way stop at an intersection.

[...]

As confounding as 4-way stops can be, traffic circles - or roundabouts - are much more frightening to me. Especially the multi-lane higher speed ones. Having lived in Europe, I know how to drive through these, but as a fairly recent (and beneficial) addition to US traffic engineering, I find a good number of motorists totally clueless in these.

And it is the clueless driver that scares me most as a cyclist (or as a passenger, or pedestrian, and even as another motorist truth be told).

 

[ggusta]

Is there a thread for dumb courteous bike riders as well?

Oh snap, did I ride with you last Sunday?

 

[stainlessguy1]

As confounding as 4-way stops can be, traffic circles - or roundabouts - are much more frightening to me. Especially the multi-lane higher speed ones. Having lived in Europe, I know how to drive through these, but as a fairly recent (and beneficial) addition to US traffic engineering, I find a good number of motorists totally clueless in these.

And it is the clueless driver that scares me most as a cyclist (or as a passenger, or pedestrian, and even as another motorist truth be told).

Yes, roundabouts are making their debut in this neck of the woods too and they are making headway as people adapt. I think once we all get to know each others quirks we will get used to driving them in a more civilized way. All in all so far so good, i have to at least give engineers ( many of which are also well known bike racers ) credit for charging ahead to cut down on idling and stoping and starting the motorvehicles etc. Motorists do like them as no one wants to bring their car to a stop anymore, it takes a lot of stress out of people when the frustration of waiting in long line ups is diminished.
In short a less stressed motorist is a happy motorist and less likely to run you over on their way to take little John Henry to music lessons after cub scouts just before the soccer game and then race over to player developement for the triple A hockey team .

 

[9000ft]

I pretty always insist cars with right of way take it. It really confuses drivers when don't go even if they are waiving me through but as someone else mentions, if I don't yield right of way to someone and they hit me, then it's my fault. I'd much rather people just do what they're supposed to do according to the rules of the road. That way we understand each other.

 

[42x16ss]

Yes, we all have to make that assumption to be able to drive safely. You can't pull up to an intersection assuming that no one is going to behave in an orderly manner. As far as I'm concerned, if a person doesn't know or intend to follow traffic law, they have no business operating a vehicle on public roads.

Tell that to the drivers here in Brisbane

Figures were recently released showing that more accidents here were caused by people breaking everyday traffic rules (giving way, indicating, overtaking correctly etc) than any other cause.

Reactions were hysterical! Nobody I spoke to about it ever seemed to be at fault some how....