Dutch Olympic Committee

[HSNHSN]

Just this evening, this news item appeared in the dutch media. Apparently the dutch olympic committee (NOC*NSF) monitors athletes on their way to the Olympic Games since 2010. Amongst other things, they regularly draw blood and calculate the off-scores for athletes.

The dutch anti-doping authorities react rather angrily to this news, since (according to them) off-scores are only calculated for the single purpose of drug-detection, so not related to the health of the athletes at all. Moreover, the NOC*NSF never reported any of the values to them. Interestingly, the chief doctor of the NOC*NSF (Cees-Rein van den Hoogenband) is also mentioned in this article. Apperently he claims that he even wouldn't report it to the authorities if one of his athletes were to test positive.

What do you think? Is this genuinely an attempt of NOC*NSF to monitor health of their athletes, like they claim? Or is this just another attempt of some sports organisation to prevent its athletes from testing positive and ensuring the values are within acceptable ranges?

 

[Tienus]

What do you think? Is this genuinely an attempt of NOC*NSF to monitor health of their athletes, like they claim? Or is this just another attempt of some sports organisation to prevent its athletes from testing positive and ensuring the values are within acceptable ranges?

The article is based around this questions and for me gives enough answers.

In the article you can read that the monitoring program is created and run by Cees-Rein van den Hoogenband. He is a doping doctor with an impressive resume. He started his career as the team doctor of the Panasonic cycling team. He was the team doctor of the PSV football club for a 25 years. The Brasilien football association openly accuse PSV of transforming Ronaldo from a normal teenager to a muscular attacker with the help of steroids during this time. The Dutch swim team did well during the olympics when he was the team doctor. Inge de Bruijn did very well and his son won 3 gold medals of wich two consecutive gold for the 100m freestyle. In london he was the chief doctor for the Dutch team.


What I personally find interesting is that Herman Ram from the doping authority claims that 4% of professional atletes in the Netherlands use doping which would be about 30 athletes. I know Herman is an intelligent guy.

 

[sniper]

all very interesting.

Van Gennep, Ellen Van Lange, Pieter v.d. Hoogenband, Van Moorsel, Vos, all the ice skaters, etc.
I don't think there's any recent Dutch sporting hero who wasn't/isn't on the hot sauce.

And not to mention our two mail topgymnasts, Yuri van Gelder, caught up in a cocaine affair, and Epke Zonderland, who studies medicine in Groningen (nuff said).

Daddy v.d. Hoogenband is indeed one dodgy figure at the centre of Dutch topsport medicine.
Jeukendrup.
Ram.
etc.
And who was this Van Gennep coach hsnhsn spoke about the other day?

 

[The Hitch]

VDB presented the olympics on Eurosport with new best friend Maurice Greene (Balco). The way he was raving about the 100m, and so friendly with greene, it just didn't give off the clean vibe.

 

[sniper]

VDH is the classic example of daddy doping son.

The PSV chapter is telling, too. 1988 for instance.

By the way, the OP is really interesting.
Internal testing on a national scale.

Not long ago with Daphne Schippers cleaning up the 100m and some other strong Dutch results in other sports, I excpected we'd see a resurgence of Dutch sport at large, but that prediction was short-lived when the national soccer squad couldn't even qualify for the EC.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

VDB presented the olympics on Eurosport with new best friend Maurice Greene (Balco). The way he was raving about the 100m, and so friendly with greene, it just didn't give off the clean vibe.

Maurice Greene is a presenter on ES?

 

[kingjr]

Yes, has been for a while now.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, the cyclists are among the least suspicious athletes among the Dutch

 

[blackcat]

Re:

all very interesting.

Van Gennep, Ellen Van Lange, Pieter v.d. Hoogenband, Van Moorsel, Vos, all the ice skaters, etc.
I don't think there's any recent Dutch sporting hero who wasn't/isn't on the hot sauce.

And not to mention our two mail topgymnasts, Yuri van Gelder, caught up in a cocaine affair, and Epke Zonderland, who studies medicine in Groningen (nuff said).

Daddy v.d. Hoogenband is indeed one dodgy figure at the centre of Dutch topsport medicine.
Jeukendrup.
Ram.
etc.
And who was this Van Gennep coach hsnhsn spoke about the other day?

Pieter wan den Hoogenband and the strawberry blonde swimmer Inke I cant remember her name, just her nickname, they were the two best swimmers in the world in 2000.

Guess where their coach is now?

Chief coach of the Australian swimming team! chief coach/head coach

 

[blackcat]

Re:

VDH is the classic example of daddy doping son.

The PSV chapter is telling, too. 1988 for instance.

By the way, the OP is really interesting.
Internal testing on a national scale.

Not long ago with Daphne Schippers cleaning up the 100m and some other strong Dutch results in other sports, I excpected we'd see a resurgence of Dutch sport at large, but that prediction was short-lived when the national soccer squad couldn't even qualify for the EC.

I dont reckon it was just PVDH pere. Yes, his dad was a champion swimmer and a doctor, but he would have had more specialised doping channels surely.
de Bruijn. like i called graeme brown, graeme de bruijn

 

[blackcat]

that jaw^

also, I think Pieter van den Hoogenband, with Alex Popov, ofcourse both heavily doped (but like all the others in the pool), I reckon they were the two GOAT swimmers. I think PvdH wins the gold in the 100 and 200 in Sydney. I rest my case.

 

[slowspoke]

Re:

that jaw^

also, I think Pieter van den Hoogenband, with Alex Popov, ofcourse both heavily doped (but like all the others in the pool), I reckon they were the two GOAT swimmers. I think PvdH wins the gold in the 100 and 200 in Sydney. I rest my case.

I've raced against PvdH (we're the same age) and I watched him as a 15 year old win the 100m free by over a second in a World Class event. He was something special then, doping or not. Popov up close was also pretty impressive...

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

that jaw^

also, I think Pieter van den Hoogenband, with Alex Popov, ofcourse both heavily doped (but like all the others in the pool), I reckon they were the two GOAT swimmers. I think PvdH wins the gold in the 100 and 200 in Sydney. I rest my case.

I've raced against PvdH (we're the same age) and I watched him as a 15 year old win the 100m free by over a second in a World Class event. He was something special then, doping or not. Popov up close was also pretty impressive...

see: I come from Australia, we cannot see outside our own orbit or continent.

And the Yanks, are something similar, they have Phelps, and the guy with the best moustache ever Spitz. Spitz I reckon, he would go into the mix for GOAT. Phelps, merely on the bubble, but you need to be able to win the blue riband, the 100 free.

So for me, Pieter van den Hoogenband. I partied with Therese Alshammar when she was in Australia around then and swimming in Melbourne. Also got insight into which Australian swimmer tested positive in 1998 and Swimming Australia covered it up. not Thorpe, he was only about 15 then, even if he won the 400 at the Perth World Champs that year.

But tout dope. tous dope. They all dope, no value judgements. I never understood why Therese had this jaw that was hewn from granite, defined more than any male model. It took me a decade later to put the 2 nd 2 Jan Ullrich together, to work it out, after i went thru a decade of cycling doping literature

thanks slowspoke

 

[Tienus]

I dont reckon it was just PVDH pere. Yes, his dad was a champion swimmer and a doctor, but he would have had more specialised doping channels surely.

You should not underestimate Cees Rein van den Hoogenband.
As I posted before he started his career with Panasonic in the mid eighties. Just have a look at the names he worked with at the time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panasonic_(cycling_team)
Amongst them Theo de Rooij, the former rabobank manager.

In 1985 VDH started working for the St. Anna hospital in Geldrop. Allmost ten years ago he created topsupport, a sports medical department of the hospital.
http://topsupport.nl/home.html
Working with him in the small team in Geldrop is Hans van Kuijk, the former team doctor of the TVM speedskating. Sven Kramer was part of that team.

If you google a bit you find lots of interesting links. For example Wilfred Sip, a fysio working for topsupport. Look at his resume:
http://members.casema.nl/ragas/wie%20zijn%20wij.html
Summary in English
Worked for Rabobank cycling, PSV footbal, PSV swimming, NAC football and Topsupport.
Worked with Erik Gerets, Guus Hiddink, Jacco Verhaeren, Theo de Rooij, Jan Raas, Luc van Agt, Toine van de Goolberg, Geert Leinders, Jan Olbrecht en Alex Fievez.
Responsable for recovery of Erik Dekker, Pieter van den Hoogenband, Ruud van Nistelrooij

Jan Olbrecht:
https://nl.linkedin.com/in/jan-olbrecht-37190514
Training adviser to several world class athletes/coaches (J. Verhaeren, R. Barnier, B. Higson, R. Gaastra, R. Valcke, P. Pearson) in swimming, running, triathlon, rowing, .. (P. van den Hoogenband, R. Kromowidjojo, M. Wouda, F. Manaudou, C. Lacourt, F. Bousquet, I. De Bruijn, M. Veldhuis, L. Van Lierde, Fr. Van Lierde, R. Murdoch, B. Becue, D. Mckeon, J. Magnussen, W. Van Dijck, V. Rousseau, L. Slegers, J. Smets, M. Bervoets, K. Smet, N. Kahan, M. van Eupen, K. van der Kolk, G. Cirkel, D. Lippits, J. D'Hoedt, P. Timmers, L. Croenen, F. Weertman, B. Ryckeman....and many others (Olympic Games medals: 12 gold / 9 silver / 11 bronze; World Championships medals: 55 gold / 55 silver / 55 bronze)
Uses a unique method of lactate testing to assess and optimize the athlete's conditioning and potential.

I think i'm getting carried away now.

 

[sniper]

Excellent post, Tienus, and great for future reference.

I think i'm getting carried away now.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

I dont reckon it was just PVDH pere. Yes, his dad was a champion swimmer and a doctor, but he would have had more specialised doping channels surely.

You should not underestimate Cees Rein van den Hoogenband.
As I posted before he started his career with Panasonic in the mid eighties. Just have a look at the names he worked with at the time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panasonic_(cycling_team)
Amongst them Theo de Rooij, the former rabobank manager.

In 1985 VDH started working for the St. Anna hospital in Geldrop. Allmost ten years ago he created topsupport, a sports medical department of the hospital.
http://topsupport.nl/home.html
Working with him in the small team in Geldrop is Hans van Kuijk, the former team doctor of the TVM speedskating. Sven Kramer was part of that team.

If you google a bit you find lots of interesting links. For example Wilfred Sip, a fysio working for topsupport. Look at his resume:
http://members.casema.nl/ragas/wie%20zijn%20wij.html
Summary in English
Worked for Rabobank cycling, PSV footbal, PSV swimming, NAC football and Topsupport.
Worked with Erik Gerets, Guus Hiddink, Jacco Verhaeren, Theo de Rooij, Jan Raas, Luc van Agt, Toine van de Goolberg, Geert Leinders, Jan Olbrecht en Alex Fievez.
Responsable for recovery of Erik Dekker, Pieter van den Hoogenband, Ruud van Nistelrooij

Jan Olbrecht:
https://nl.linkedin.com/in/jan-olbrecht-37190514
Training adviser to several world class athletes/coaches (J. Verhaeren, R. Barnier, B. Higson, R. Gaastra, R. Valcke, P. Pearson) in swimming, running, triathlon, rowing, .. (P. van den Hoogenband, R. Kromowidjojo, M. Wouda, F. Manaudou, C. Lacourt, F. Bousquet, I. De Bruijn, M. Veldhuis, L. Van Lierde, Fr. Van Lierde, R. Murdoch, B. Becue, D. Mckeon, J. Magnussen, W. Van Dijck, V. Rousseau, L. Slegers, J. Smets, M. Bervoets, K. Smet, N. Kahan, M. van Eupen, K. van der Kolk, G. Cirkel, D. Lippits, J. D'Hoedt, P. Timmers, L. Croenen, F. Weertman, B. Ryckeman....and many others (Olympic Games medals: 12 gold / 9 silver / 11 bronze; World Championships medals: 55 gold / 55 silver / 55 bronze)
Uses a unique method of lactate testing to assess and optimize the athlete's conditioning and potential.

I think i'm getting carried away now.

nah, you aint getting carried away.

I did not read the posts before I posted my reply, then I saw pere van den hoogie.

so, my fault. sry

 

[slowspoke]

Re: Re:

that jaw^

also, I think Pieter van den Hoogenband, with Alex Popov, ofcourse both heavily doped (but like all the others in the pool), I reckon they were the two GOAT swimmers. I think PvdH wins the gold in the 100 and 200 in Sydney. I rest my case.

I've raced against PvdH (we're the same age) and I watched him as a 15 year old win the 100m free by over a second in a World Class event. He was something special then, doping or not. Popov up close was also pretty impressive...

see: I come from Australia, we cannot see outside our own orbit or continent.

And the Yanks, are something similar, they have Phelps, and the guy with the best moustache ever Spitz. Spitz I reckon, he would go into the mix for GOAT. Phelps, merely on the bubble, but you need to be able to win the blue riband, the 100 free.

So for me, Pieter van den Hoogenband. I partied with Therese Alshammar when she was in Australia around then and swimming in Melbourne. Also got insight into which Australian swimmer tested positive in 1998 and Swimming Australia covered it up. not Thorpe, he was only about 15 then, even if he won the 400 at the Perth World Champs that year.

But tout dope. tous dope. They all dope, no value judgements. I never understood why Therese had this jaw that was hewn from granite, defined more than any male model. It took me a decade later to put the 2 nd 2 Jan Ullrich together, to work it out, after i went thru a decade of cycling doping literature

thanks slowspoke

I had a friend who was rached 19th in the world and was lined up next to Thorpe. Gun goes, they dive in, he comes up to breath and all he can see is Thropes feet. Thinks "how do I beat that?" and retired after the race. My Friend is 6 foot 8.....

 

[Dr.Guess]

Re: Re:

that jaw^

also, I think Pieter van den Hoogenband, with Alex Popov, ofcourse both heavily doped (but like all the others in the pool), I reckon they were the two GOAT swimmers. I think PvdH wins the gold in the 100 and 200 in Sydney. I rest my case.

I've raced against PvdH (we're the same age) and I watched him as a 15 year old win the 100m free by over a second in a World Class event. He was something special then, doping or not. Popov up close was also pretty impressive...

see: I come from Australia, we cannot see outside our own orbit or continent.

And the Yanks, are something similar, they have Phelps, and the guy with the best moustache ever Spitz. Spitz I reckon, he would go into the mix for GOAT. Phelps, merely on the bubble, but you need to be able to win the blue riband, the 100 free.

So for me, Pieter van den Hoogenband. I partied with Therese Alshammar when she was in Australia around then and swimming in Melbourne. Also got insight into which Australian swimmer tested positive in 1998 and Swimming Australia covered it up. not Thorpe, he was only about 15 then, even if he won the 400 at the Perth World Champs that year.

But tout dope. tous dope. They all dope, no value judgements. I never understood why Therese had this jaw that was hewn from granite, defined more than any male model. It took me a decade later to put the 2 nd 2 Jan Ullrich together, to work it out, after i went thru a decade of cycling doping literature

thanks slowspoke

I had a friend who was rached 19th in the world and was lined up next to Thorpe. Gun goes, they dive in, he comes up to breath and all he can see is Thropes feet. Thinks "how do I beat that?" and retired after the race. My Friend is 6 foot 8.....

haha, nothing like giving up the right way.

Blackcat, Alshammar, any cool bro/bra stories?

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

that jaw^

also, I think Pieter van den Hoogenband, with Alex Popov, ofcourse both heavily doped (but like all the others in the pool), I reckon they were the two GOAT swimmers. I think PvdH wins the gold in the 100 and 200 in Sydney. I rest my case.

I've raced against PvdH (we're the same age) and I watched him as a 15 year old win the 100m free by over a second in a World Class event. He was something special then, doping or not. Popov up close was also pretty impressive...

see: I come from Australia, we cannot see outside our own orbit or continent.

And the Yanks, are something similar, they have Phelps, and the guy with the best moustache ever Spitz. Spitz I reckon, he would go into the mix for GOAT. Phelps, merely on the bubble, but you need to be able to win the blue riband, the 100 free.

So for me, Pieter van den Hoogenband. I partied with Therese Alshammar when she was in Australia around then and swimming in Melbourne. Also got insight into which Australian swimmer tested positive in 1998 and Swimming Australia covered it up. not Thorpe, he was only about 15 then, even if he won the 400 at the Perth World Champs that year.

But tout dope. tous dope. They all dope, no value judgements. I never understood why Therese had this jaw that was hewn from granite, defined more than any male model. It took me a decade later to put the 2 nd 2 Jan Ullrich together, to work it out, after i went thru a decade of cycling doping literature

thanks slowspoke

I had a friend who was rached 19th in the world and was lined up next to Thorpe. Gun goes, they dive in, he comes up to breath and all he can see is Thropes feet. Thinks "how do I beat that?" and retired after the race. My Friend is 6 foot 8.....

haha, nothing like giving up the right way.

Blackcat, Alshammar, any cool bro/bra stories?

looooong time ago. that bird was crazy. phenomenal physique, i was just on periphery cos knew her friend/fellow swimmer.

 

[BullsFan22]

Will we see an international inquiry?

 

[WillemS]

Will we see an international inquiry?

No.

No one is going to raise any alarm, except for us clinicians of course, about the issue when no actual cases of doping (allegations) surface. Currently, the issue is presented as an unwillingness to share information and not as an indication that the (medical staff of) the NOC-NSF actually holds back information to actively cover up doping cases. The doctor claims that he's bound by medical confidentiality and that's why he doesn't share.

There have been some stories on this, with spicy statements from the doctor like "I won't even share if I have a suspicion of doping, my only concern in the health of the athletes. As a doctor, I'm bound by medical confidentiality". He claims that the only reason the blood tests, including the off scores calculations, were done was to guard health, not guard against positives.

So, it's clearly not about doping, it's about medical confidentiality

 

[sniper]

Interesting post from Cloxxki from some time ago, on the topic of Dutch ice-skater Yvonne Van Gennep and EPO

Wasn't it [EPO] first available in 1987. What super human performances happened that year?

A good friend of mine is about as well informed as anyone regarding which products "help", legal and illegal, although he's not into masking agents or change of being caught, specializing in WADA-legal additives. He had an eye on EPO already in the mid-80's, predicting it would ruin professional sports for all the reasons we now know as facts.

He didn't point out a lot to me, but he was suspect of Yvonne van Gennep's (speed skater) performance at the 1988 Calgary Olympics. She came from a nasty injury, trained alone, and beat all the (admittedly but passively doping) East-Germans. Setting world records.

Recently the East-Germans in questions somehow were convinced to be filmed about their trianing volumes and the way they were given "things" by their superiors (coach is the wrong word). It was Dutch documentary, pretty much singing the praise of how Van Gennep managed to overcome her injury and required surgery to beat the doped up all-favorite German girls, while riding squeeky clean herself. I got a bad taste in my mouth from it, despite having a small boy's crush on her. She's just such a cute Dutch girl, now woman.
the German girls were baffled to see how fast Yvonne was, and ended up skating well under their regular level, from having been broken mentally. They were expected to make up the podiums amongst themselves, were mentally unprepared to fight for best of the rest.