Dylan Groenewegen discussion thread

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Lets be honest here. There will never be a healthy rivalry between this guys anymore after what has happened. Rivalry yes. Healthy No.

Still good to see them both winning in the Tour.
Going back to that crash in 2020 I think it changed both men's lifes. But I don't believe that Fabio holds a grudge to Dylan any longer. I certainly hope not for his own mental sake - he must have come to terms with that incident and perhaps even have forgiven Dylan.

On the other hand it is quiet clear to me at least that Dylan has changed his aggression and are very aware of what he is doing on his own. And i think that it showed with this stage win. It was both emotional for him but also based on as much sprint-IQ as possible when going 70 an hour.

Great to see both men in the same race winning stages.
 
Going back to that crash in 2020 I think it changed both men's lifes. But I don't believe that Fabio holds a grudge to Dylan any longer. I certainly hope not for his own mental sake - he must have come to terms with that incident and perhaps even have forgiven Dylan.
He hasn't forgiven him at all. Google translated:

"Groenewegen is a top sprinter, we all know that. I had a lot of respect for him before the crash and that has disappeared since the crash."

"In my eyes he made a serious mistake and my admiration for him is a lot less, but he shows here that he can do it. He will be happy with that, but frankly I don't care."

 
^^I can't imagine how it must feel to be racing shoulder to shoulder again with the guy who almost (unintentionally, of course) almost killed you. To be clear I don't think DG meant to harm Jakobsen, but the barging itself was intentional.

Can't really think of a similar scenario right now in another sport. Maybe it happened in auto racing.
 
That is not the point. It could just make the win for Groenewegen extra nice
I don't think Jumbo ever doubted that Groenewegen was a faster sprinter than van Aert. It's almost as if you want to use this to laugh at Jumbo, but it was quite an logical choice for Jumbo to make.

Jumbo went full for GC since 2020 which left Groenewegen out of their TdF team, while van Aert can go for sprints and also be a great help for their GC ambitions.
That's also why they also coorperated with Groenewegen when Bikeexchange wanted him. They understood that Groenewegen is a rider worthy of the TdF, but they couldn't give him a spot.

There is absolute no bad blood between Groenewegen and Jumbo.
 
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I don't think Jumbo ever doubted that Groenewegen was a faster sprinter than van Aert. It's almost as if you want to use this to laugh at Jumbo, but it was quite an logical choice for Jumbo to make.

Jumbo went full for GC since 2020 which left Groenewegen out of their TdF team, while van Aert can go for sprints and also be a great help for their GC ambitions.
That's also why they also coorperated with Groenewegen when Bikeexchange wanted him. They understood that Groenewegen is a rider worthy of the TdF, but they couldn't give him a spot.

There is absolute no bad blood between Groenewegen and Jumbo.
Red Rick doesn't want to laugh at Jumbo he just wants to dig at van Aert again. He has a huge problem with van Aert, I think because of the perceived "rivalry" with Roglic whom he likes a lot. It's a bit crazy. Red Rick is a smart and nice guy but he's also one of the most biased people on the forum. There's hardly a take from him that doesn't come from a general attitude towards a rider.
 
Red Rick doesn't want to laugh at Jumbo he just wants to dig at van Aert again. He has a huge problem with van Aert, I think because of the perceived "rivalry" with Roglic whom he likes a lot. It's a bit crazy. Red Rick is a smart and nice guy but he's also one of the most biased people on the forum. There's hardly a take from him that doesn't come from a general attitude towards a rider.
Well personally I must say I'm a fan of van Aert and Roglic and I don't think it's a good idea to let van Aert go for green, but I also understand that van Aert is a too big/good rider to be here purely as a domestique. Not letting him get his own goals will probably chase van Aert away from Jumbo.

p.s. van Aert should've been dq'd yesterday imo. He should've sticked to his line, which is a rule UCI made a while ago, but they only hold true to this rule when someone crashes.
 
Well personally I must say I'm a fan of van Aert and Roglic and I don't think it's a good idea to let van Aert go for green, but I also understand that van Aert is a too big/good rider to be here purely as a domestique. Not letting him get his own goals will probably chase van Aert away from Jumbo.

p.s. van Aert should've been dq'd yesterday imo. He should've sticked to his line, which is a rule UCI made a while ago, but they only hold true to this rule when someone crashes.
A DSQ would have been a bit over the top, don't you think?

But yeah, he definitely veered a lot to the right. Démare did the same to beat Sagan in one of the Giro stages in 2020 and wasn't penalised either, because he allegedly wasn't endangering Sagan which it says in the rulebook that you have to in order to be relegated. Well, in that instance Sagan braked and prevented the danger from being visible to the eyes of the judges. Yesterday, Van Aert veers from the middle of the road in a position where there were room for two Sagans to his right, all the way to the right of the road where there was no room for any Sagan. I don't get how that doesn't warrant a penalty. He wasn't naturally reacting to any movement from riders in front of him like Sagan was when he was DSQ'ed in 2017, he chose his trajectory completely of his own volition. It was maybe not Abdoujaparov-like in its erratic-ness but his move served the same purpose.

I think it's fair to close one side of the road if you start your sprint over there but if you choose to launch your sprint from the middle of the road, you should just suck it up and stay there.
 
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Red Rick doesn't want to laugh at Jumbo he just wants to dig at van Aert again. He has a huge problem with van Aert, I think because of the perceived "rivalry" with Roglic whom he likes a lot. It's a bit crazy. Red Rick is a smart and nice guy but he's also one of the most biased people on the forum. There's hardly a take from him that doesn't come from a general attitude towards a rider.
I think it's more valuable to contribute with substantive views on a given subject than to offer personal assessments of another poster's essence; a critique of a specific action on the other hand allows greater personal distance and objectivity. Toxic femininity is generally to be avoided, and especially so in public spheres.
 
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Red Rick doesn't want to laugh at Jumbo he just wants to dig at van Aert again. He has a huge problem with van Aert, I think because of the perceived "rivalry" with Roglic whom he likes a lot. It's a bit crazy. Red Rick is a smart and nice guy but he's also one of the most biased people on the forum. There's hardly a take from him that doesn't come from a general attitude towards a rider.
And who could blame him. No reasonable being in this universe.
 
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A DSQ would have been a bit over the top, don't you think?

But yeah, he definitely veered a lot to the right. Démare did the same to beat Sagan in won of the Giro stages in 2020 and wasn't penalised either, because he allegedly wasn't endangering Sagan which it says in the rulebook that you have to in order to be relegated. Well, in that instance Sagan braked and prevented the danger from being visible to the eyes of the judges. Yesterday, Van Aert veers from the middle of the road in a position where there were room for two Sagans to his right, all the way to the right of the road where there was no room for any Sagan. I don't get how that doesn't warrant a penalty. He wasn't naturally reacting to any movement from riders in front of him like Sagan was when he was DSQ'ed in 2017, he chose his trajectory completely of his own volition. It was maybe not Abdoujaparov-like in its erratic-ness but his move served the same purpose.

I think it's fair to close one side of the road if you start your sprint over there but if you choose to launch your sprint from the middle of the road, you should just suck it up and stay there.
Riders will never learn to keep a straight line if they are only penalised when it causes a crash. There really wasn't a huge difference in the deviation here to what almost killed Fabio. Plenty of other things were different though, sure, but things will never change if you only get penalized if there is a pile up.
 
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A DSQ would have been a bit over the top, don't you think?

But yeah, he definitely veered a lot to the right. Démare did the same to beat Sagan in won of the Giro stages in 2020 and wasn't penalised either, because he allegedly wasn't endangering Sagan which it says in the rulebook that you have to in order to be relegated. Well, in that instance Sagan braked and prevented the danger from being visible to the eyes of the judges. Yesterday, Van Aert veers from the middle of the road in a position where there were room for two Sagans to his right, all the way to the right of the road where there was no room for any Sagan. I don't get how that doesn't warrant a penalty. He wasn't naturally reacting to any movement from riders in front of him like Sagan was when he was DSQ'ed in 2017, he chose his trajectory completely of his own volition. It was maybe not Abdoujaparov-like in its erratic-ness but his move served the same purpose.

I think it's fair to close one side of the road if you start your sprint over there but if you choose to launch your sprint from the middle of the road, you should just suck it up and stay there.
The rulebook allows both for penalising irregular sprinting in general and dangerous deviation from their lane specifically.



 
A DSQ would have been a bit over the top, don't you think?

But yeah, he definitely veered a lot to the right. Démare did the same to beat Sagan in won of the Giro stages in 2020 and wasn't penalised either, because he allegedly wasn't endangering Sagan which it says in the rulebook that you have to in order to be relegated. Well, in that instance Sagan braked and prevented the danger from being visible to the eyes of the judges. Yesterday, Van Aert veers from the middle of the road in a position where there were room for two Sagans to his right, all the way to the right of the road where there was no room for any Sagan. I don't get how that doesn't warrant a penalty. He wasn't naturally reacting to any movement from riders in front of him like Sagan was when he was DSQ'ed in 2017, he chose his trajectory completely of his own volition. It was maybe not Abdoujaparov-like in its erratic-ness but his move served the same purpose.

I think it's fair to close one side of the road if you start your sprint over there but if you choose to launch your sprint from the middle of the road, you should just suck it up and stay there.
I'm sorry, but with a DSQ I meant he should've been put in last place without time loss.
When the space between van Aert and the fences became smaller and smaller Sagan decided to put his should into van Aert to prevent the space to dissapear completely. I think Sagan saved himself at that point. Not every rider is capable of that manouvre.

Sagan is currently the worst rider in the bunch. He endangers a lot of riders, but that doesn't mean another rider can put him in a dangerous situation.
 
I dont have anything against WvA, but you guys are probably right beating WvA has no icing on the cake and I was merely speculating.

My honest criticism of Van Aert would be that he just needs to win more monuments and WC than he has in the last 3 years
van Aert is absolutely fantastic, but he's usually not the very best at what he does. This is more for the van Aert topic, but winning is not that easy. He's very good at everything which isn't always a blessing.
 
van Aert is absolutely fantastic, but he's usually not the very best at what he does. This is more for the van Aert topic, but winning is not that easy. He's very good at everything which isn't always a blessing.
I disagree.

There aren't that many things in cycling where a specific rider is definitely the very best, which makes this kind of take pretty nonsensical.

Is Lampaert the very best time trialist in the peloton? Are Jakobsen and Groenewegen both the best sprinter?
 
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