electronic campagnolo groupo; yea or nay?

[gregod]

here it is for all of us campagnolo fans. weigh in on whether or not you are excited about campy's (campag's in brit-speak) new electronic groupo.

personally, i am going to wait. but the article on CN makes a compelling case.

 

[Parera]

Always like new tech stuff, sure it's going to work well. I view it as a luxury item anyways, don't know if I will ever bother with it but at the same time I admire the engineering.

 

[ElChingon]

Yey!

I'm sure I've said it before and I'll say it again, why did they not go all the way and do it wireless! Come on its 2011 and there are still wires? I guess having it wireless in 1999 on Mektronic was not good enough? Having used it, it was just like smoke and mirrors to others, very over the top. As is its more of a copy of Shimano and not a super improvement other than being Campy

I would also be more interested in a rear only electronic shifter or at least have the option of it. The big battery is mainly for the huge force required for the front derailure, a rear only model would make it even lighter, but mainly less bulky.

That being said, its a must buy.

Remaining question is, how much am I going to have to fork over for it?

 

[gregod]

Yey!

I'm sure I've said it before and I'll say it again, why did they not go all the way and do it wireless! Come on its 2011 and there are still wires? I guess having it wireless in 1999 on Mektronic was not good enough? Having used it, it was just like smoke and mirrors to others, very over the top. As is its more of a copy of Shimano and not a super improvement other than being Campy

I would also be more interested in a rear only electronic shifter or at least have the option of it. The big battery is mainly for the huge force required for the front derailure, a rear only model would make it even lighter, but mainly less bulky.

That being said, its a must buy.

Remaining question is, how much am I going to have to fork over for it?

wired vs. wireless is my biggest reservation. i think that is another reason why the battery was made the way it was. a future iteration will be wireless.

i liked the mektronik, too. i was given a set when someone got sick of the problems. it looked cool and when it worked, it was fun. but it was pretty fiddly.

that said, i will probably buy it when it's available. however, i will do my best to wait until i have seen how it performs with average riders.

 

[rgmerk]

Yey!

I'm sure I've said it before and I'll say it again, why did they not go all the way and do it wireless! Come on its 2011 and there are still wires?

I don't know for sure, obviously, but my guess is a combination of reliability and simplicity.

Wireless would mean 3 or 4 batteries, not one, all of which would have to be kept recharged.

Not to mention is that wireless communication is far more susceptible to interference, deliberate or not, than wires.

I would suggest that, at least for a first iteration, the KISS principle applies.

 

[ElChingon]

I don't know for sure, obviously, but my guess is a combination of reliability and simplicity.

Wireless would mean 3 or 4 batteries, not one, all of which would have to be kept recharged.

Not to mention is that wireless communication is far more susceptible to interference, deliberate or not, than wires.

I would suggest that, at least for a first iteration, the KISS principle applies.

I think my reference being the Mektronic the batteries were those small CR2032's

sure one in the derailure and one in the CPU, and if you used the speed sensor one more. But those things are so small and light, you could carry three extras and not even notice them! The Mektronic only had issues near radar guns and some high interference areas which were rather obvious once you put two and two together (my experience anyway). The world has gone wireless and bluetooth would work fine! Even resetting it mid ride would not be an issue, I would reset my Mektronic while riding and no problem just no shifting for a few seconds. Technology is way more advanced than back in 1999 for the Mektronic, you're telling me something that was OK is worse now? No its much better. Wireless baby, its the way to go.

KISS is going keep them off the radar, wireless and they move back above the Shimano tech where it should be.

 

[richwagmn]

Seems gimmicky compared to Di2. Sweep the entire cassette with a long button press? Who cares?

I suppose Campag has to make themselves seem innovative. After all, they've spent 30 years copying Shimano innovation. Maybe one day, Campaq will think of something new and useful that Shimano will see fit to copy.

 

[gregod]

Seems gimmicky compared to Di2. Sweep the entire cassette with a long button press? Who cares?

I suppose Campag has to make themselves seem innovative. After all, they've spent 30 years copying Shimano innovation. Maybe one day, Campaq will think of something new and useful that Shimano will see fit to copy.

i have that now on my mechanical record and it is a great feature. i wonder if sram is going to be next on the electronic bandwagon.

hey mavic, are you listening? it is time to bring back mektronik updated with modern materials and electronics!

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I suppose Campag has to make themselves seem innovative. After all, they've spent 30 years copying Shimano innovation. Maybe one day, Campaq will think of something new and useful that Shimano will see fit to copy.

You need to check your facts buddy boy.

 

[rgmerk]

The Mektronic only had issues near radar guns and some high interference areas which were rather obvious once you put two and two together (my experience anyway). The world has gone wireless and bluetooth would work fine! Even resetting it mid ride would not be an issue, I would reset my Mektronic while riding and no problem just no shifting for a few seconds.

It's the 2012 Tour on the Champs Elysees. All the sprinters teams are lining up, with Cav looking to rescue a disappointing Sky campaign after Brad Wiggins' spectacular blowup on the Port de Bales. The GreenEdge "grunt rush" is ready again, and Marcel Kittel's Bosch-Shimano teammates are also straining at the bit, again hoping to show their wildcard was well deserved. And there's Andre Griepel's leadout...but where's Andre? He's dropped the wheel? What happened?

A later slow-motion replay shows the problem. At the crucial moment, he's left unable to change gears, spinning out helplessly as his team accelerates. A few seconds later, and his race is over.

The team is puzzled. What happened? The only conclusion is that one of the hundreds of radio frequency sources in the area at the time just happened to screw with Griepel's bike.

Mechanical shifting glitches happen too, but given the persistent skepticism about electronic shifting it receives saturation coverage in the cycling media.

I don't blame campy for going with wired shifting one bit.

 

[blutto]

Seems gimmicky compared to Di2. Sweep the entire cassette with a long button press? Who cares?

I suppose Campag has to make themselves seem innovative. After all, they've spent 30 years copying Shimano innovation. Maybe one day, Campaq will think of something new and useful that Shimano will see fit to copy.

...that long sweep in certain race situations is just nothing short of an unfair advantage...Campy shifters used to have it then it got lost in the Powershift Ultrashift shuffle...so there is a real reason to buy this stuff...cool....

Cheers

blutto

 

[Parera]

Campy is claiming their electric has quicker shifting than mechanical. .35 seconds versus SR mechanical .45 seconds. Weight is about 200 grams more. Still, it looks like neat stuff even if it doesn't solve any problems.

I will also qualify that I'm usually enamored with technology, so yeah, haters gonna hate.

 

[podilato]

The Campag system looks great. I am now going to put my house on the market so I can pay for one!

 

[Valentino]

Yea!

Wired is good for all the interference-free reasons.
The parts look good. I really like the full sweep feature, it's Campagnolo. I also like the long thumb shifter, which should benefit classic drop bar fans (Hell, I might even try that 3T Rotundo I gave up on when I did my last build).

I'll have EPS on my next bike. It will not be in 2012 because all the electronic shifting compatible Bianchi frames are the wrong color: black.

 

[masking_agent]

I think this is the turning point for Campy, they either make or break it with this electronic gruppo. I'm afraid Shimano now "own" the electronic groupset market and I don't see Campy's development catching up anytime soon. Campy have so many other financial issues to deal with that I don't even know if they will stay afloat in today's "asia mass produced" world. I think Campy were forced to make this shift in technology due to the rise of SRAM coming out of nowhere and winning big races including the tour. I can't remember the last tour de france winner on Campy ? However, if they can market it as a "niche" or extremely high end similar to "Ferrari" then I think they will stay afloat. I can only hope upcoming tour de france winners will use this , otherwise this could be the beginning of the end of Campy.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Seems gimmicky compared to Di2. Sweep the entire cassette with a long button press? Who cares?

I suppose Campag has to make themselves seem innovative. After all, they've spent 30 years copying Shimano innovation. Maybe one day, Campaq will think of something new and useful that Shimano will see fit to copy.

One of the major beefs about Di2 and 2011 Athena was , one lower cog at a time or one cog at a time. Some people do care.

Lessee....first 9s(then copied by shimano), first 10s(then copied by shimano), first higher end triples, then copied by shimano, 11s, Di2 to go to 11s next year, outof thebox wheels, not a fan but shimano was/is slow to copy this one.

shimano threadless headsets...ohh wait, they STILL don't make one. Seatposts, wait, they STILL don't make any. blah, blah, blah.

If you wish to ride stuff from a fishing reel company, go ahead.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I think this is the turning point for Campy, they either make or break it with this electronic gruppo. I'm afraid Shimano now "own" the electronic groupset market and I don't see Campy's development catching up anytime soon. Campy have so many other financial issues to deal with that I don't even know if they will stay afloat in today's "asia mass produced" world. I think Campy were forced to make this shift in technology due to the rise of SRAM coming out of nowhere and winning big races including the tour. I can't remember the last tour de france winner on Campy ? However, if they can market it as a "niche" or extremely high end similar to "Ferrari" then I think they will stay afloat. I can only hope upcoming tour de france winners will use this , otherwise this could be the beginning of the end of Campy.

Gee, I thought Evans won the TdF...oh wait, he was on shimano equipped bicycles. How about the podium...nope, no sram, Polka Dot? Nope, Sprinter winner, nope...

Another 'end of Campagnolo' thread. Do ya suppose Rolex is going under because they aren't just like Casio of Seiko? How about Porsche, Audi?. Ducati? They aren't like Honda, Toyota or even Mazda. The low end makers are trying to emulate the Mercedes, Audis, Porsche of the world, not the other way around(Lexus, Infiniti, Acura).

Campagnolo is the premium brand and they know their niche. It is NOT $1200 trekspecializedgiant, It is $6000 Colnagos.

They are a prmium brand, manfactured in Europe, not cheap crap made in asia(sram).

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

One of the major beefs about Di2 and 2011 Athena was , one lower cog at a time or one cog at a time. Some people do care.

Lessee....first 9s(then copied by shimano), first 10s(then copied by shimano), first higher end triples, then copied by shimano, 11s, Di2 to go to 11s next year, outof thebox wheels, not a fan but shimano was/is slow to copy this one.

shimano threadless headsets...ohh wait, they STILL don't make one. Seatposts, wait, they STILL don't make any. blah, blah, blah.

If you wish to ride stuff from a fishing reel company, go ahead.

And how long did it take for Shimano to finally route their gear cables properly? Something like a decade. Just happened in the last 3 or so years too.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

And how long did it take for Shimano to finally route their gear cables properly? Something like a decade. Just happened in the last 3 or so years too.

2009/ STI first out about 1988...2 decades.

 

[blutto]

..find below a post from another forum that has an interesting read on the merits of the Campy vs Shimano systems and has included/added a very good question...

Di2 shifting is very slow compared to analog. They're claiming that their [Campagnolo's] electronic is faster than analog.

I'd like to see that claim backed up with some testing, since analog is virtually 0.000 seconds by the simple concept of: once you pull on a cable, that cable is pulling on something and mechanical system are direct actions, not delayed.

...some feedback on this would be most wonderful as I don't have a clue how to guage the correctness of the observations made in the above quote ...ie is one electrically powered system in fact faster than the other system and how do they compare to purely mechanical systems

Cheers

blutto

 

[podilato]

Anyone have any idea of price of Campag electronic? The Ultegra Di2 is marketed as being the 'affordable' option. I don't which marketing genius thinks that a rear derailleur costing £200+ is 'affordable'?

 

[Valentino]

..find below a post from another forum that has an interesting read on the merits of the Campy vs Shimano systems and has included/added a very good question...

Di2 shifting is very slow compared to analog. They're claiming that their [Campagnolo's] electronic is faster than analog.

I'd like to see that claim backed up with some testing, since analog is virtually 0.000 seconds by the simple concept of: once you pull on a cable, that cable is pulling on something and mechanical system are direct actions, not delayed.

...some feedback on this would be most wonderful as I don't have a clue how to guage the correctness of the observations made in the above quote ...ie is one electrically powered system in fact faster than the other system and how do they compare to purely mechanical systems

Cheers

blutto

It should be possibleto shift faster with electronics than with a mechanical system.
I do not know if Di2 actually is slower or just feels slower.
With a mechanical system the shift starts as you start to move the lever wherereas the electronic one starts when the switch closes. I have to try an EPS-equipped bike, that's for sure.

 

[Elagabalus]

Seems gimmicky compared to Di2. Sweep the entire cassette with a long button press? Who cares?

I suppose Campag has to make themselves seem innovative. After all, they've spent 30 years copying Shimano innovation. Maybe one day, Campaq will think of something new and useful that Shimano will see fit to copy.

Nah! 30 years ago both Campag and Shimano were doing the same thing--counting the seconds until the patent for Sun Tour's Slant Parallelogram ran out so they both could copy it.

 

[Race Radio]

..find below a post from another forum that has an interesting read on the merits of the Campy vs Shimano systems and has included/added a very good question...

Di2 shifting is very slow compared to analog. They're claiming that their [Campagnolo's] electronic is faster than analog.

I'd like to see that claim backed up with some testing, since analog is virtually 0.000 seconds by the simple concept of: once you pull on a cable, that cable is pulling on something and mechanical system are direct actions, not delayed.

...some feedback on this would be most wonderful as I don't have a clue how to guage the correctness of the observations made in the above quote ...ie is one electrically powered system in fact faster than the other system and how do they compare to purely mechanical systems

Cheers

blutto

Di2 is certainly slower then analog. It has been a key complaint since it was introduced and the main reason Cavendish did not use it until he was forced to

 

[masking_agent]

Gee, I thought Evans won the TdF...oh wait, he was on shimano equipped bicycles. How about the podium...nope, no sram, Polka Dot? Nope, Sprinter winner, nope...

Another 'end of Campagnolo' thread. Do ya suppose Rolex is going under because they aren't just like Casio of Seiko? How about Porsche, Audi?. Ducati? They aren't like Honda, Toyota or even Mazda. The low end makers are trying to emulate the Mercedes, Audis, Porsche of the world, not the other way around(Lexus, Infiniti, Acura).

Campagnolo is the premium brand and they know their niche. It is NOT $1200 trekspecializedgiant, It is $6000 Colnagos.

They are a prmium brand, manfactured in Europe, not cheap crap made in asia(sram).

was just raising the same question the article in Bicycling magazine did. They did make some valid points towards the future of this company.