Everyone has been clean after 2006 - now what

[Cloxxki]

I think this deserved its own thread.
Many have expressed their surprise as to the dates the riders clean to have gone cold turkey.

So there are now multiple riders claiming this, and ending up only paying back prize money etc up till their individual go-clean dates.
As much as I am ready to believe their pre-2007 confession content, the post 2006 stuff makes my truth gland itch. And I am not the only one.
Nitpicking, or is 6 years of doping something worse of scrutiny? I feel the latter. These guys are not heroes for speaking the truth regarding up till 2006, and cannot be excused for a slip-up about a yes or no issue 2006 onward.

We seem to have USA cycling omerta split up in 2 eras.

What is to happen with this? Retroactive testing? Claims from ex sponsors who could use some extra cash? When did dope clauses in rider and team contracts get serious again?

I cannot accept a 3-Michelin-star chef's prize winning dish if the waiter whispers to me that they ran out of a few vital ingedients, that the deer steak was replaced by pork for budget reasons, and some of the other herbs were not really fresh. It may taste good, but I feel like I've been scammed. Not only was the price too high, I didn't get the product I was supposed to get.

Who's cool about being lied to in a document dated and signed? Should any UCI licence holder be content with this?

 

[sniper]

I think this deserved its own thread.
Many have expressed their surprise as to the dates the riders clean to have gone cold turkey.

So there are now multiple riders claiming this, and ending up only paying back prize money etc up till their individual go-clean dates.
As much as I am ready to believe their pre-2007 confession content, the post 2006 stuff makes my truth gland itch. And I am not the only one.
Nitpicking, or is 6 years of doping something worse of scrutiny? I feel the latter. These guys are not heroes for speaking the truth regarding up till 2006, and cannot be excused for a slip-up about a yes or no issue 2006 onward.

We seem to have USA cycling omerta split up in 2 eras.

What is to happen with this? Retroactive testing? Claims from ex sponsors who could use some extra cash? When did dope clauses in rider and team contracts get serious again?

I cannot accept a 3-Michelin-star chef's prize winning dish if the waiter whispers to me that they ran out of a few vital ingedients, that the deer steak was replaced by pork for budget reasons, and some of the other herbs were not really fresh. It may taste good, but I feel like I've been scammed. Not only was the price too high, I didn't get the product I was supposed to get.

Who's cool about being lied to in a document dated and signed? Should any UCI licence holder be content with this?

definitely deserves a thread.

The scam obviously continues and the mentality hasn't change. The cycling fan is still held for a fool.

As was pointed out, the personal statements of VDV, Zabriskie and Danielson seem to have been written by one and the same ghostwriter, ffs. To me, that is a signal that they themselves don't really feel guilty.

The only thing that is changing is that guys like JV and Braislford have understood that a proactive anti-doping stance is needed, first, to get sponsors, second, to get the quasi-critical cycling media on the bandwagon.

 

[LOOKFOOL]

definitely deserves a thread.

The scam obviously continues and the mentality hasn't change. The cycling fan is still held for a fool.

As was pointed out, the personal statements of VDV, Zabriskie and Danielson seem to have been written by one and the same ghostwriter, ffs. To me, that is a signal that they themselves don't really feel guilty.

What a joke..There all trying to admit there guilt up to 2006, make themseives look like abused children ("He was doing it and said I should too.) and now trying to look like they've had 6 clean years and have put it in the past..wrong, wrong, wrong..A few of them definitely didn't stop and I wouldn't be surprised if none of them did..Cowards..

 

[skimazk]

The only thing that is changing is that guys like JV and Braislford have understood that a proactive anti-doping stance is needed, first, to get sponsors, second, to get the quasi-critical cycling media on the bandwagon.

I fail to see where all the enthousiasm for JV is comeing from. The man has confessed to dopeing himself, had intricate knowledge of the events at USPS/Disco etc from his own time there but only come's forward after he himself is running risks with the Federal/USADA enquiry.

Despite pretending to run the clean team that is supposed to be Garmin he willingly hires people with a USPS past. While he was perfectly aware that being from that team they have had to be dopeing but haven't gone public with it. How is that helping cycling? how is that contributing to clean sport? JV is just as bad as Riis, De Rooij or Bruyneel for that matter.

A DS that is willing to cover up everything as long as it suits his own interests.

 

[Benotti69]

I fail to see where all the enthousiasm for JV is comeing from. The man has confessed to dopeing himself, had intricate knowledge of the events at USPS/Disco etc from his own time there but only come's forward after he himself is running risks with the Federal/USADA enquiry.

Despite pretending to run the clean team that is supposed to be Garmin he willingly hires people with a USPS past. While he was perfectly aware that being from that team they have had to be dopeing but haven't gone public with it. How is that helping cycling? how is that contributing to clean sport? JV is just as bad as Riis, De Rooij or Bruyneel for that matter.

A DS that is willing to cover up everything as long as it suits his own interests.

Becuase we as fans are tired of being sold a new clean era!

It is obvious that the pelton isn't clean, from the dominance of Sky of all the Week long races in prep for the TdF and OPQS dominance of the spring classics. These 2 teams are way too similar to USPS and Mapei of days of EPO Yore!

JV has been at the front of this clean cycling spin. We dont beleive him.

We are told that the numbers of riders are x and y and not higher than Z.

Z is what Greg LeMond could achieve. This guy was unique, one of the few who could naturally get to Z, most others couldn't get near that, but we are seeing lots of riders get near the magical dope free performance. The reality is only a select few can get near that and they dont come along in their droves. None of them would be domestiques flying up mountains destryoing other GC contenders.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I fail to see where all the enthousiasm for JV is comeing from. The man has confessed to dopeing himself, had intricate knowledge of the events at USPS/Disco etc from his own time there but only come's forward after he himself is running risks with the Federal/USADA enquiry.

Despite pretending to run the clean team that is supposed to be Garmin he willingly hires people with a USPS past. While he was perfectly aware that being from that team they have had to be dopeing but haven't gone public with it. How is that helping cycling? how is that contributing to clean sport? JV is just as bad as Riis, De Rooij or Bruyneel for that matter.

A DS that is willing to cover up everything as long as it suits his own interests.

Interesting first post.

Rest assured, there are a minority here who don't believe much of what JV says, nor his reasons for doing things the way he does them or the way he says what he says.

I concur - no idea where the JV enthusiasm comes from. Other than people getting all giddy coz a real life team manager deigns to grace us with his presence.

 

[Benotti69]

I think this deserved its own thread.
Many have expressed their surprise as to the dates the riders clean to have gone cold turkey.

So there are now multiple riders claiming this, and ending up only paying back prize money etc up till their individual go-clean dates.
As much as I am ready to believe their pre-2007 confession content, the post 2006 stuff makes my truth gland itch. And I am not the only one.
Nitpicking, or is 6 years of doping something worse of scrutiny? I feel the latter. These guys are not heroes for speaking the truth regarding up till 2006, and cannot be excused for a slip-up about a yes or no issue 2006 onward.

We seem to have USA cycling omerta split up in 2 eras.

What is to happen with this? Retroactive testing? Claims from ex sponsors who could use some extra cash? When did dope clauses in rider and team contracts get serious again?

I cannot accept a 3-Michelin-star chef's prize winning dish if the waiter whispers to me that they ran out of a few vital ingedients, that the deer steak was replaced by pork for budget reasons, and some of the other herbs were not really fresh. It may taste good, but I feel like I've been scammed. Not only was the price too high, I didn't get the product I was supposed to get.

Who's cool about being lied to in a document dated and signed? Should any UCI licence holder be content with this?

We should all get out to the mountain passes, throw petals in front of the wheels as the these clean cycling gods pass by, genuflect and lower our eyes in reference

 

[JJGisberts]

What a joke..There all trying to admit there guilt up to 2006, make themseives look like abused children ("He was doing it and said I should too.) and now trying to look like they've had 6 clean years and have put it in the past..wrong, wrong, wrong..A few of them definitely didn't stop and I wouldn't be surprised if none of them did..Cowards..

Well let's be honest, the pace of the peloton dropped since the departure of Armstrong. Sastre's victory on Alpe d'Huez in 2008 wasn't above human reach. And guys like Ricco, Schumacher, Kohl all made huge improvement in a short time, but al got caught. And besides that in 2006 the Puerto case come to the surface and guys like Basso, Mancebo and Ullrich all got kicked out of the Tour. I do believe that for some their was really a case of relief and a believe in a none dope possibility. Especially for guys who really had moral struggles over doping like Vande Velde, Zabriskie and Danielson.

But i do find it kinda strange nothing is mentioned about the 'A' team at discovery in 2007 when Contador won the Tour with Hincapie en Leipheimer as teammates and Bruyneel still as DS.
But discovery didn't rode the 2007 editions anything like the 1999-2005 editions. Rabobank was in control with Rasmussen, Boogerd, Dekker and Menchov and we all know how that ended...

 

[Cloxxki]

Even Ferrari didn't let people use EPO anymore. too detectable. So, people ride slower. Big deal. The dope-o-meter has 2 possible outputs: clean or doped.
I get a strong sense that they're considering EPO the only PED that you van be punished for. Or, they have been told soon this will be the deal. EPO'ers are put to shame, the rest is considered clean. As only EPO was any good?
The USADA reasoned decision in my book focusses a bit much on EPO. The press do the same. Once you pop that red pill, you'll never be a clean rider anymore. Just in some cases you'll need to do without MOST of the continued effects of your past doping.

 

[Tinman]

I concur - no idea where the JV enthusiasm comes from. Other than people getting all giddy coz a real life team manager deigns to grace us with his presence.

I don't have a black and white opinion on JV. I think he's a clever guy, and he has clearly anticipated the fall out well, and timed things accordingly. There are others I admire more, and many I admire way less.

I do think it is human that as passionate cycling fans we want to believe in a clean story and we appreciate ad hoc dialogue with a DS that at least appears genuine. I certainly do. One cannot go through life being cynical about everything. And whether JV is exploiting that or not for me is not that relevant at this stage. We'll find out later. The Sky deceipt screams at me way more.

 

[87'Start]

But it is so easy to be cynical though isn't it.? Especially when riders treat fans like fools with sentiments of surprise and assurances that they saw nothing 'dodgy' whilst working for JB and LA.

The crescendo this week could have been a time for people in the sport to come out and properly ask questions of the UCI and suspect teams/riders – take advantage of the momentum and express absolute disgust in the way that the sport is governed, put PM and HV on the back foot, put pressure of DB to provide far greater assurance he is what he claims.

Instead we get wishy washy sentiments of surprise and disappointment. Team DSs saying we knew nothing of certain riders' backgrounds rather than we weren't thorough enough. Riders saying we saw nothing and knew nothing rather than saying I saw things but was to scared/trapped to do anything...

Call me too idealistic but I have lost faith in this sport hoped there would be more of a snowball effect in the peloton with the release of USADA report. But it seems as though it is business as usual in the peloton and the majority of the media (I did hear a mea culpa from Cycling Weekly on BBC radio 5 live – very unimpressed by Yates' weakness).

Maybe it all hinges on the corrupt power of the UCI...

EDIT: Great to see David Millar and Fabian Cancellara speaking out.

 

[JRTinMA]

Its hard to believe that some of these riders have been clean since 2006 but you have to consider that when the feds reopen the case they may testify again and lying to the feds carries jail time. While lying to USADA carries no real punishment they had to consider the fact that they may go in front of the feds where lying land you in prison. This would certainly mean they would get the scorn of duping the public and likely lifetime bans from USADA. While it seems crazy they all quit doping they had to consider this fact.