Extreme quadriceps starting pain after 3-4 rest days

[Lcdcl]

Has someone tried to combine cycling with jogging? So for example, you go jogging the one day and the next day you go cycling, then you go jogging again and so on. If yes what were the results? Was there something different, or just pain in the upper and lower legs? And for how long did you do it?
Thanks in advance

I have a lot of experience with this involving running and biking from years spent training for an Ironman.
I could never run first after 2 days off the bike (where my episodes on the bike would usually happen after 3 days of rest). If I did first, within 10-15 minutes of running my quads would slowly get tighter and tighter and that burning sensation would feel like my legs were filling with acid. As soon as it was unbearable I’d stop running and couldn’t restart again no matter what. If I biked first I’d have no issues running. After an episode during running if I biked later that same day and powered through the pain to where it clears up I would be ok to run the next day.
The higher the training load got the less time off was needed to trigger an episode.

 

[RhabdomyolysisMaster]

Finally a diagnosis:

Today I have got the results of my DNA test and a Diagnosis. I have got a defect in a gene in the mitochondrial DNA, which causes, that a step in the cellular respiration may not work as it should. The exact gene is the MTND6 gene and there is one base which got substituted by another, which results in a missense-mutation, thus the protein can work but not as good as it should be.

Ergebnis: Variante m.14349A>G in MTND6 zu 100% detektierbar, den Aminosäureaustausch (p.(Tyr109His)) vorhersagend. (This is the quote from the results, stating what is wrong)

The problem is that this exact mutation has not been documented (or atleast it is stated in my results) in literature yet nor in a database such as MITOMAP, so I guess due to its rarity this will not be helpful for you guys but I just wanted to share it.

If someone wants the full report just message me but it is in German.

 

[Golden.]

Finally a diagnosis:

Today I have got the results of my DNA test and a Diagnosis. I have got a defect in a gene in the mitochondrial DNA, which causes, that a step in the cellular respiration may not work as it should. The exact gene is the MTND6 gene and there is one base which got substituted by another, which results in a missense-mutation, thus the protein can work but not as good as it should be.

Ergebnis: Variante m.14349A>G in MTND6 zu 100% detektierbar, den Aminosäureaustausch (p.(Tyr109His)) vorhersagend. (This is the quote from the results, stating what is wrong)

The problem is that this exact mutation has not been documented (or atleast it is stated in my results) in literature yet nor in a database such as MITOMAP, so I guess due to its rarity this will not be helpful for you guys but I just wanted to share it.

If someone wants the full report just message me but it is in German.

Hey,
Thank you for letting us now!

Are they sure this mutation is causing the issue? Is there anything you can do? Can you keep on cycling?
I'm also German so I'd be interested in the full report for sure!

 

[RhabdomyolysisMaster]

Hey,
Thank you for letting us now!

Are they sure this mutation is causing the issue? Is there anything you can do? Can you keep on cycling?
I'm also German so I'd be interested in the full report for sure!

Due to fact that there are no prior cases they cannot be a 100% sure, but I had CK-Values up to 28.000 and the doctors said, that they could not get that high without some form of gendefect. And this is the only defect gene found, thus I guess it has to be the mutation causing the issue.

I can still cycle and I will continue with it, I have no problem cycling 30-40km but if I do it too hard my muscles will breakdown. If I do not ride 50km a day under a lot of pressure, which means that I have to ride 25km in the morning in 1h and 25km in the afternoon I will be fine. So it is not really restricting me and I can live somewhat without problems, even though I would like to cycle that much.

Currently I do not know if there is a way to treat it but the doctor told me, that a guy from the genetic facility in the hospital is very interested in the case and that I should call him, which I will definitely do.

Hope that answers your questions and I will send you the report in the evening because I am currently not at home.

 

[Golden.]

Due to fact that there are no prior cases they cannot be a 100% sure, but I had CK-Values up to 28.000 and the doctors said, that they could not get that high without some form of gendefect. And this is the only defect gene found, thus I guess it has to be the mutation causing the issue.

I can still cycle and I will continue with it, I have no problem cycling 30-40km but if I do it too hard my muscles will breakdown. If I do not ride 50km a day under a lot of pressure, which means that I have to ride 25km in the morning in 1h and 25km in the afternoon I will be fine. So it is not really restricting me and I can live somewhat without problems, even though I would like to cycle that much.

Currently I do not know if there is a way to treat it but the doctor told me, that a guy from the genetic facility in the hospital is very interested in the case and that I should call him, which I will definitely do.

Hope that answers your questions and I will send you the report in the evening because I am currently not at home.

Very interesting! The highest I got Was over 80.000. At that point I wasn't able to bend my legs at all and my urine looked like blood. Don't even get me started on the pain...
I had two one week long hospital checks stays at the Neurological department of the Uni Klinik Jena, but they never bothered doing a genetic panel. I did pretty much every Neurological test available but I refused to do the muscle biopsy, because others with the same symptoms said they got no results from it. Did you ever do a muscle biopsy or was the genetic panel the fist thing your doctors advised?

 

[lohmatik]

Hi everyone.

So happy to learn all the stories you had shared. I’m gonna try all advices and analyze each guess. I read all pages in hope to find a certain solution, but it looks like we should wait for some more time for that…

I’m 37 yo man from Russia (peaceful russian…).
172cm high and 78 kg. Before I started to ride road bike I was 95 kg. A ride often for 2 years now.

My first episode appeared last year in the beginning of September after 1,5 week of tempo ride session. I’ve made about 600 km. It was huge for me. Then I spent lazy 2 or 3 days at home and faced the pain somewhere in my hip muscles while I was going down the stares to metro station. I was so scared that I asked my girl to meet me and help to get home. The next day, the pain disappeared. I just forgot about the whole thing for a year.

Now I’m in the end (hopefully) of my second episode. It leasts already for 2 weeks. This season I started to participate in local races so I spent all summer maiking 300km per week. Accidentally I caught a cold and I was forced to stay at home for 3 days, mostly in my bed. After this pause, I got back to my bike and my current episode of pain had started. And it didn’t go away yet. Stretching helps for a short period… rolling hurts a lot.

So all the symptoms are like the most of yours, guys.

In winter, I don’t have this problems - probably, because I train smart, mixing with gym and Nordic skiing. But for the second summer in a row I do only cycling and leave everything else aside, so, I’m having this episodes in August/September.

I will try to implement more different training types in my life. It may be some kind of key.

I was doing CrossFit since 2014 and sometimes I got carried away with it, but I never faced those attacks.

Btw during my current episode I tried to spin through pain (when the pain was less obvious) and I reached success. I think it should be some effort around ftp, not just spin around. It works. But I want to understand the exact mechanism of this shi*…

Wish to solve this problem for all of us. Stay health and peace to all of you.

P.S. Please don’t forget shere your stories here. I read this pages for a week and now when I finished, I don’t now what to read next.

Sorry for my poor English

 

[RhabdomyolysisMaster]

Hi everyone.

So happy to learn all the stories you had shared. I’m gonna try all advices and analyze each guess. I read all pages in hope to find a certain solution, but it looks like we should wait for some more time for that…

I’m 37 yo man from Russia (peaceful russian…).
172cm high and 78 kg. Before I started to ride road bike I was 95 kg. A ride often for 2 years now.

My first episode appeared last year in the beginning of September after 1,5 week of tempo ride session. I’ve made about 600 km. It was huge for me. Then I spent lazy 2 or 3 days at home and faced the pain somewhere in my hip muscles while I was going down the stares to metro station. I was so scared that I asked my girl to meet me and help to get home. The next day, the pain disappeared. I just forgot about the whole thing for a year.

Now I’m in the end (hopefully) of my second episode. It leasts already for 2 weeks. This season I started to participate in local races so I spent all summer maiking 300km per week. Accidentally I caught a cold and I was forced to stay at home for 3 days, mostly in my bed. After this pause, I got back to my bike and my current episode of pain had started. And it didn’t go away yet. Stretching helps for a short period… rolling hurts a lot.

So all the symptoms are like the most of yours, guys.

In winter, I don’t have this problems - probably, because I train smart, mixing with gym and Nordic skiing. But for the second summer in a row I do only cycling and leave everything else aside, so, I’m having this episodes in August/September.

I will try to implement more different training types in my life. It may be some kind of key.

I was doing CrossFit since 2014 and sometimes I got carried away with it, but I never faced those attacks.

Btw during my current episode I tried to spin through pain (when the pain was less obvious) and I reached success. I think it should be some effort around ftp, not just spin around. It works. But I want to understand the exact mechanism of this shi*…

Wish to solve this problem for all of us. Stay health and peace to all of you.

P.S. Please don’t forget shere your stories here. I read this pages for a week and now when I finished, I don’t now what to read next.

Sorry for my poor English

Hey,
did you ever go to the hospital during one of your episodes (you did not mention it so I am curious), because if not I would highly recommend it, otherwise your kidneys could really suffer from this episodes. Even though I have not read a report in here, where someone got any kidney damage I would choose the save way. If not, remember to drink a lot of water to get the CK and other molecules out of your body. (During my episodes I drink 8-10 liters a day, I know this is not very healthy either but it flushes the CK out very efficiently and I test my blood regularly during the episode or I am already in the hospital. Find the way that suites the best for you because I would not recommend drinking that much.)

And to the spinning-through-thing I have experienced the same. If I start to cycle at the beginning of an episode, when I slowly start to feel the pain, it vanishes and goes away. Asked my doctor about it and he told me, that he thinks, that it is the same with muscle ache because there the pain also vanishes when you continue to train.

Get well soon and don't stop the grind

 

[lohmatik]

Hey,
did you ever go to the hospital during one of your episodes (you did not mention it so I am curious), because if not I would highly recommend it, otherwise your kidneys could really suffer from this episodes. Even though I have not read a report in here, where someone got any kidney damage I would choose the save way. If not, remember to drink a lot of water to get the CK and other molecules out of your body. (During my episodes I drink 8-10 liters a day, I know this is not very healthy either but it flushes the CK out very efficiently and I test my blood regularly during the episode or I am already in the hospital. Find the way that suites the best for you because I would not recommend drinking that much.)

And to the spinning-through-thing I have experienced the same. If I start to cycle at the beginning of an episode, when I slowly start to feel the pain, it vanishes and goes away. Asked my doctor about it and he told me, that he thinks, that it is the same with muscle ache because there the pain also vanishes when you continue to train.

Get well soon and don't stop the grind

Hey, thanks for answer)
Yes this time I checked blood parameters including CK level and it was normal. But my results was in different from yours values. 3,6 ng/ml when <5,2 is reference. May be I checked my blood too late. Not in the beginning of episode. Next time I’ll check right away. I’ll post here)

 

[lohmatik]

Guys i've just thought. if we are considering this episode as a chemical metabolic phenomenon why it's getting better when starting stretching? Ok, it is hurt and helps for short period but still. Looks like if it is metabolic you wouldn`t fix it by mechanical.
Just thoughts

 

[RhabdomyolysisMaster]

Hey fellow sufferers,
I have got an update from my case. I recently saw a human geneticist, who my doctor recommended to see, and showed him my genetic report. He looked at the report and my case and registered me as a participant for the MitoNet, they will now look at my DNA or mtDNA or both in more depth and do some more tests with it (I do not know what they are exactly doing, but the geneticist said they will test if my punctual mutation in my mtDNA really is the cause for my symptoms or something else.).

He said the whole procedure will take 1-2 years and then I will finally now the cause.

So for me there will (hopefully) be an answer soon.

 

[NaturallyDriven]

Hi all..

I just wanted to share that I haven't had any episodes in nearly 2 years. Last time was when I found this forum and also went to the hospital for the first time. I had been suffering them fairly regularly ) at least a few times per year) since 2009. All that I have focused on is limited sugar / carbs and staying hydrated. I was forced off training earlier this year for about 6 weeks and had no issues whatsoever. So for me, the obvious and simplest thing to do is limit binging / overeating carbs and sugar and also drinking plenty of fluids all the time. If nothing else, it definitely helps.

 

[Trifid]

It seems very common to me, since when you exercise the muscle does not hurt that same day, it hurts the following two days.



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https://hhprocessors.com

This is why I haven't bothered going to the doctors with it as I know it will be dismissed as DOMS. I could cycle every day for a year and feel great every day, but just one day off and I'll be in pain and unable to walk. This isn't cramp from exercise, it is from a day of inactivity.

I did the festive 500 over Christmas, cycling a bit every day and also totalled 12 consecutive days of cycling . New years day was a planned rest day, despite feeling well rested. I get up in the night for a pee and upon returning to bed I get intense cramping in my leg that has returned this morning as I start walking around the house sorting breakfast. Just a few steps will trigger it and the pain will last hours afterwards. Likewise if I jump on a bike and do very light cycling, a normal warm up, my legs will cease up with intense cramp within 2 minutes.

This is something I've been suffering with for 10 years, ever since getting a bike as an adult, I never had a problem as a child. Back then I was only doing the odd day here or there and would then cease all cycling when the problem started and it would take a week or two to stop completely. Now I understand the triggers better, I push through it with more cycling, the best cure seems to be an hour of intense cycling as soon as I feel the start of the cramp starting, enough to feel some actual DOMS and then continue with a normal cycle every day. I could be unable to walk 50m in the morning, do an intense cycle and then be able to walk for miles straight after pain free.

 

[NaturallyDriven]

This is why I haven't bothered going to the doctors with it as I know it will be dismissed as DOMS. I could cycle every day for a year and feel great every day, but just one day off and I'll be in pain and unable to walk. This isn't cramp from exercise, it is from a day of inactivity.

I did the festive 500 over Christmas, cycling a bit every day and also totalled 12 consecutive days of cycling . New years day was a planned rest day, despite feeling well rested. I get up in the night for a pee and upon returning to bed I get intense cramping in my leg that has returned this morning as I start walking around the house sorting breakfast. Just a few steps will trigger it and the pain will last hours afterwards. Likewise if I jump on a bike and do very light cycling, a normal warm up, my legs will cease up with intense cramp within 2 minutes.

This is something I've been suffering with for 10 years, ever since getting a bike as an adult, I never had a problem as a child. Back then I was only doing the odd day here or there and would then cease all cycling when the problem started and it would take a week or two to stop completely. Now I understand the triggers better, I push through it with more cycling, the best cure seems to be an hour of intense cycling as soon as I feel the start of the cramp starting, enough to feel some actual DOMS and then continue with a normal cycle every day. I could be unable to walk 50m in the morning, do an intense cycle and then be able to walk for miles straight after pain free.

Sorry to hear you've had a recent episode of this. It was 2 years ago as of a couple weeks ago that I had my last major flare up / episode. For me, it was often around holidays when I'd be off the bike a bit more and imbibing in some alcohol and sweets. I can tell you that the BIGGEST thing for me is, when not training every day, to be adequately hydrated and to limit sugar. Doing this has kept me issue free for a long time. For me it was usually triggered with some sort of downhill walking or walking down stairs. Another thing is that I'm sure your CK levels spike during this and can cause damage to the kidneys if not addressed ASAP.

congrats on your festive 500! Was it on Zwift?

 

[Trifid]

Sorry to hear you've had a recent episode of this. It was 2 years ago as of a couple weeks ago that I had my last major flare up / episode. For me, it was often around holidays when I'd be off the bike a bit more and imbibing in some alcohol and sweets. I can tell you that the BIGGEST thing for me is, when not training every day, to be adequately hydrated and to limit sugar. Doing this has kept me issue free for a long time. For me it was usually triggered with some sort of downhill walking or walking down stairs. Another thing is that I'm sure your CK levels spike during this and can cause damage to the kidneys if not addressed ASAP.

congrats on your festive 500! Was it on Zwift?

I'm skiing in 2 weeks time and am very concerned about it. Currently I can't be off the bike for much more then 24 hours without having problems. I'm desperately hoping that if I cycle before leaving for the airport that I can make it through to the slopes the next day and build up enough fatigue skiing to keep the issue at bay.

I don't consume a lot of sugar (but plenty of carbs through bread, pasta, potatoes). I don't drink alcohol at home any more and keep things moderate when drinking out on rare occasions. I drink plenty of liquids and my pee has never been dark.

I've been thinking about getting a private blood test for CK levels after a couple of days of rest and presenting it to the doctor, the only thing stopping me is I'm not sure I can face the pain and fighting through it to get back to normal. Or otherwise just writing a letter to my GP in the hope that they will keep a open mind reading through it. But I don't have the best experience with medical professionals.

Yes, a Zwift Festive 500, so not quite as much volume as the real thing but I stopped cycling in less ideal conditions after a nasty crash a couple of years back.