Felix Gall is the new Austrian Emperor of the Alps

[Red Rick]

Yes. But still, the CDA can't explain the disparity between his relative level in the mtns to TT's alone.

It can.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Mostly to Vingegaard yes. Although Hindley, Pellizzari, Arensman would be more interesting, as I don't think #1 in the GC is really in question.

Also, if I see it correctly Georg Totschnig's 5th place in 2003 is the best result ever by an Austrian at the Giro, unless I missed someone in earlier years.

Probably around 1 min to Pellizzari and Hindlay. Maybe 1: 30 to Arensman.

If Gall is climbing on this level the entire Giro, the TT is not going to make any difference against the rest. Big IF of course.

I think the punchy stages will be his achilles heel instead. RB-Bora can punish him there.

 

[Pozzovivo]

It can.

It can, you are right. I just think it is very unlikely.

Let us assume that Gall weighs 66 kg and Vingegaard weighs 60 kg. If Vingegaard is much more aerodynamic on the road bike, it is possible that they produced roughly the same W/kg yesterday.

At 6.3 W/kg, the difference in absolute power would be about 38 watts:

Gall: 66 × 6.3 = 416 W
Vingegaard: 60 × 6.3 = 378 W

So Gall would be producing around 35–40 watts more than Vingegaard.

The question, then, is this: if Gall is pushing roughly 35 watts more than Vingegaard on the flat sections, how large would the CdA difference need to be for Vingegaard’s aerodynamic advantage to still account for an expected two-minute gain in the time trial?

I think unrealistic big difference in CDA and thus I think Gall can't produce his peak climbing watts in the TT position while Vingegaard can.

 

[Red Rick]

It can, you are right. I just think it is very unlikely.

Let us assume that Gall weighs 66 kg and Vingegaard weighs 60 kg. If Vingegaard is much more aerodynamic on the road bike, it is possible that they produced roughly the same W/kg yesterday.

At 6.3 W/kg, the difference in absolute power would be about 38 watts:

Gall: 66 × 6.3 = 416 W
Vingegaard: 60 × 6.3 = 378 W

So Gall would be producing around 35–40 watts more than Vingegaard.

The question, then, is this: if Gall is pushing roughly 35 watts more than Vingegaard on the flat sections, how large would the CdA difference need to be for Vingegaard’s aerodynamic advantage to still account for an expected two-minute gain in the time trial?

I think unrealistic big difference in CDA and thus I think Gall can't produce his peak climbing watts in the TT position while Vingegaard can.

Tomato tomato.

It's obvious his best TT position is *** because he can't do the watts of a dead light bulb in a good TT position

 

[Pozzovivo]

Tomato tomato.

It's obvious his best TT position is *** because he can't do the watts of a dead light bulb in a good TT position

Fine...

 

[Peyresourde]

It can, you are right. I just think it is very unlikely.

Let us assume that Gall weighs 66 kg and Vingegaard weighs 60 kg. If Vingegaard is much more aerodynamic on the road bike, it is possible that they produced roughly the same W/kg yesterday.

At 6.3 W/kg, the difference in absolute power would be about 38 watts:

Gall: 66 × 6.3 = 416 W
Vingegaard: 60 × 6.3 = 378 W

So Gall would be producing around 35–40 watts more than Vingegaard.

The question, then, is this: if Gall is pushing roughly 35 watts more than Vingegaard on the flat sections, how large would the CdA difference need to be for Vingegaard’s aerodynamic advantage to still account for an expected two-minute gain in the time trial?

I think unrealistic big difference in CDA and thus I think Gall can't produce his peak climbing watts in the TT position while Vingegaard can.

It is like Evenepoel vs Pogacar in TTs. Pogacar can probably push 40-50 watts more and is still slower. A difference in CdA of 0.03 is probably all it takes at 55 kph.

The CdA difference between Gall and Vingegaard is probably even bigger.

 

[Pozzovivo]

It is like Evenepoel vs Pogacar in TTs. Pogacar can probably push 40-50 watts more and is still slower. A difference in CdA of 0.03 is probably all it takes at 55 kph.

Does Pogačar really push 40–50 W more than Remco in a fresh, flat TT effort? On road bike climbs after fatigue that is the case probably.

"The CdA difference between Gall and Vingegaard is probably even bigger" - agree but Pogi is also not that aero (imo).

I still think the biomechanics explain a fair share of the observed difference. I know Landa, Mike Woods and others have talked about it being easier to push top watts on climbs than on flat terrain. I think it is the case for Gall as well.

 

[ppanther92]

It can.

It can to a large part probably, but he himself in an interview said like 3 years ago he feels very uncomfortable in TT position with even his legs getting slightly numb.

That said, before last season he said he worked on flexibility and position and honestly, his TTs in 2025 were not all that bad:

Tour de France 2025 Stage 5 (ITT) results

Tour de France 2025 Stage 5 (ITT) from Caen to Caen was won by Remco Evenepoel before Tadej PogaÄar and Edoardo Affini. Tadej PogaÄar was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

the flat 33km in the Tour - 39th, 3:05 on Evenepoel, 1:43 on Vingegaard

La Vuelta Ciclista a España 2025 Stage 18 (ITT) results

La Vuelta Ciclista a España 2025 Stage 18 (ITT) from Valladolid to Valladolid was won by Filippo Ganna before Jay Vine and João Almeida. Jonas Vingegaard was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

the flat 12km in the Vuelta - 29th, 0:40 on Ganna, 0:22 on Vingegaard

Thats definitely better than what he previously was capable of.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Just wait for him and Mühlberger on the Giau, isolating Vingegaard and dropping all the gc pretenders.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Just wait for him and Mühlberger on the Giau, isolating Vingegaard and dropping all the gc pretenders.

If Gall launches it on passo giau and tries to keep the advantage on the downhill he will end up in the same river they found Ilnur Zakarin in. Just keep calm and spin away from the field on the last climb a few times. Will be enough.

 

[Netserk]

Just wait for him and Mühlberger on the Giau, isolating Vingegaard and dropping all the gc pretenders.

gregor the mountain needs to be up the road

 

[Mayomaniac]

gregor the mountain needs to be up the road

It's Gregor the gentle!

 

[Tim Cahill]

 

[Valv.Piti]

Love it, Der Kaiser

 

[QueenStagiaire]

That‘s got to be less aero than an aero helmet.

 

[Mayomaniac]

That‘s got to be less aero than an aero helmet.

With the head up and/or sidewind, yes.
I haven't seen him train on a TT-bike at home since I rode past him (going the other way) in 2021, when he was training for the mixed relay at the EC and still riding for Team DS (the dark ages, the almost made him quit the sport).

 

[Red Rick]

since I rode past him (going the other way)

Shouldn't have added that, it's bad for the lore.

 

[Tim Cahill]

With the head up and/or sidewind, yes.
I haven't seen him train on a TT-bike at home since I rode past him (going the other way) in 2021, when he was training for the mixed relay at the EC and still riding for Team DS (the dark ages, the almost made him quit the sport).

Dark time for the Austrian mixed relay too by the sounds of things, having to call on a young Gall.

 

[Netserk]

german interview dubbed to english ( original audio also available )

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfUQJegl25U

 

[Hugh Januss]

That‘s got to be less aero than an aero helmet.

That's not a helmet, it's an airbrake.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

A hat befitting of a young emporor

 

[search]

Dark time for the Austrian mixed relay too by the sounds of things, having to call on a young Gall.

if I remember correctly, it was somehow covid related or sth like that.

In that interview linked above, he said that they recently worked on his position on Sicily, and made some steps forward, with him feeling more comfortable on the bike, and still pushing a little bit more power.

It didn't really translate to a result today, but he obviously made huge steps last year already, and on from there it's of course more difficult to find significant amounts of time again. But he honestly doesn't need to. Performances like today are enough to stay in GC contention in almost every GT nowadays.

 

[Gigs_98]

You know I love the type of rider who can climb extremely well and is absolute dogsh*t at literally everything else but man, sometimes it's not fun to root for them.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

He's closer to the pink jersey than he was at the start of the day, and he and his team have looked pretty good in the race so far. Staying on the bike and avoiding illness could also prove to be crucial. Vingegaard hasn't yet exited a GT in his career, but it could just as well happen here than in a future GT. Gall is no longer first in line to take over pink from Eulálio in case something happens to Vingegaard, but he's still the one who has looked the best between the other contenders so far, and there's no time trialing left in the race. There are however some climbs and descents that might suit other riders more than him, but also mountains that fit him very well in his current shape.

A football club no one believes in win sometimes becomes champion.

 

[Red Rick]

You know I love the type of rider who can climb extremely well and is absolute dogsh*t at literally everything else but man, sometimes it's not fun to root for them.

That's why I choose this guy with big watts in TTs too but who can barely seem to ride his bike sometimes.