Final GC with Vingegaard and Lipowitz

[Coppi-Bartali]

What would the final standings have been with them in the race?

Obviously, Pogačar couldn't be babysitter, so the outcome of some stages would have been different, especially regarding the pace.

I think Del Toro would have suffered on the days he was at his worst, when no one attacked, but Seixas didn't seem to have anything left in the tank either.
I simply think Vingegaard would have finished second, and perhaps Lipowitz fourth. I’m more undecided between Del Toro and Lipowitz. I get the feeling that Del Toro really struggled on Thursday, but no one made a move.
Ayuso would have lost a lot of time.


1- Pogacar
2- Vingegaard
3- Evenepoel
4- Lipowitz
5- Del Toro
6- Seixas
7- Skjlemose

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3. Evenepoel
4. Del Toro
5. Seixas
6. Lipowitz
7. Skjelmose

 

[Netserk]

lenny would still have spanked the lidl boys

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Lipowitz didn’t seem like he brought the goods this year. He looked sharper in Romandie. Team dynamics were a little at play so tough to really tell, but he would have ended up supporting Remco either way after the ITT/Solaison combo, so I don’t think he would have been fighting for the podium.

 

[Coppi-Bartali]

Lipowitz didn’t seem like he brought the goods this year. He looked sharper in Romandie. Team dynamics were a little at play so tough to really tell, but he would have ended up supporting Remco either way after the ITT/Solaison combo, so I don’t think he would have been fighting for the podium.

BORA's dynamic this week has been very positive. It had been a while since Cattaneo climbed like this; today Hindley looked really strong, and Van Gils outperformed Adam Yates.

 

[YavorD]

lenny would still have spanked the lidl boys

I don't necessarily think so. Maybe the break yesterday wouldn't be let so far ahead. It would've been close, I think.

 

[Heston]

Jonas in 2nd and Lipo around Seixas.

Probably Lipo ahead of Seixas. He was doing a monster TT before the crash and was great in the 3rd week last year.

 

[Tonton]

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3. Evenepoel
4. Del Toro
5. Seixas
6. Lipowitz
7. Skjelmose

This ^^^.

Lenny 7th, maybe. He was strong in the end.

 

[red_flanders]

Bike handling is part of bike racing. Thank goodness. It is what it is.

 

[Remy55]

Pogi
Lipo/Remco
Remco/Lipo (depending on team strategy)
Vingo
IDT
Seixas

 

[Netserk]

I don't necessarily think so. Maybe the break yesterday wouldn't be let so far ahead. It would've been close, I think.

galibier would have been ridden much harder and gaps exploded today

 

[YavorD]

galibier would have been ridden much harder and gaps exploded today

Probably true, but also Martinez would've been dropped as well probably and then he would be in no man's land. So I assume he would've been caught rather than come back.
He could still drop Seixas/Skjelmose on Sarenne, but he would have to work for that and he wasn't very inclined to work in this Tour

 

[Netserk]

Probably true, but also Martinez would've been dropped as well probably and then he would be in no man's land. So I assume he would've been caught rather than come back.
He could still drop Seixas/Skjelmose on Sarenne, but he would have to work for that and he wasn't very inclined to work in this Tour

he was stronger than seixas and decathlon had the support to keep skjelmose behind in that scenario is my expectation

 

[Berniece]

Pogacar
Evenepoel
Vingegaard
Lipowitz
Del Toro

 

[bah]

Pogacar
Evenepoel/Vingegaard
Del Toro
Lipowitz

I'm unsure about Vingegaard vs Evenepoel. Clearly Jonas is one of the greatest GT riders of all time and it would be foolish to write him off, but this Tour at least, he seemed closer to the humans than Pogacar and fatigue given the Giro in his legs could have cost him. But it's a toss up. I do think Remco finished very strongly though.

 

[canina82]

Pogacar
Vingegaard
Remco
Del Toro
Seixas
Lipowitz

 

[canina82]

Bike handling is part of bike racing. Thank goodness. It is what it is.

Incredible how you say this but if it was Remco, your opinion would be a lot different.

 

[AmRacer]

Jonas with team would've ridden a few stages much harder and only Pogi can follow when Jonas attacks. None of the other riders would be towed by Pogi.

 

[Coppi-Bartali]

Incredible how you say this but if it was Remco, your opinion would be a lot different.

We’ve read countless messages saying that Remco hadn't yet managed to win a Giro or perform better in the Tour due to the bad luck of crashes.

It has even been claimed outright that he would have won the 2023 Giro.
And back then, he didn't have Vingegaard's coach; he had a lot of trouble with climbing.

But I started a thread to theorize about GC with Vingegaard, and the answer turned out to be bike handlingmm so we could have saved a lot of posts in the Remco thread.

 

[canina82]

Vingegaard put 1'15" on Remco at the top of Tourmalet. Dropped him on stage 10 too. It's very hard to believe he wouldn't put time on Remco in the final week.

 

[canina82]

We’ve read countless messages saying that Remco hadn't yet managed to win a Giro or perform better in the Tour due to the bad luck of crashes.

It has even been claimed outright that he would have won the 2023 Giro.
And back then, he didn't have Vingegaard's coach; he had a lot of trouble with climbing.

But I started a thread to theorize about GC with Vingegaard, and the answer turned out to be bike handlingmm so we could have saved a lot of posts in the Remco thread.

Exactly. Riding to win is also very different from riding to a podium. This is why I want to see Remco in the Giro next year. I want to see if he is able to handle the pressure and win the GC against (probably) Del Toro and Seixas.

 

[mikks]

Jonas with team would've ridden a few stages much harder and only Pogi can follow when Jonas attacks. None of the other riders would be towed by Pogi.

This. 1. Pog, 2. Vingegaard. But more importantly, the race dynamics would have been different— some weaknesses that stayed hidden now might have been exposed insted or exposed earlier. That said, I think Evenepoel would still have been the favorite for 3rd.

 

[ppanther92]

Jonas in 2nd and Lipo around Seixas.

Probably Lipo ahead of Seixas. He was doing a monster TT before the crash and was great in the 3rd week last year.

Yes, thats also how I see it. Lipos TT was very strong till the crash and I think he would have held it together better than Seixas in week 3.

 

[red_flanders]

Incredible how you say this but if it was Remco, your opinion would be a lot different.

This is interesting, as I've criticized him left and right for his crap bike handling in the past, to the point of being about done with him (and said so here) after one really dumb crash. He's improved a ton.

I care about and respect bike handling. I respond to skilled riders. It's a lot of why I admire Pogacar, the dude is a fluid and natural on the bike as anyone. I criticize riders I root for. I enjoy the sport, have riders I'm interested in, but not a "fan" (as in fanatic) about anyone. It's literally men in tights riding bikes. I can't get too worked up about these guys.

I'm not the guy you seem to think. At least not to my way of thinking. You're free to feel differently.

 

[Netserk]

This is interesting, as I've criticized him left and right for his crap bike handling in the past, to the point of being about done with him (and said so here) after one really dumb crash. He's improved a ton.

I care about and respect bike handling. I respond to skilled riders. It's a lot of why I admire Pogacar, the dude is a fluid and natural on the bike as anyone. I criticize riders I root for. I enjoy the sport, have riders I'm interested in, but not a "fan" (as in fanatic) about anyone. It's literally men in tights riding bikes. I can't get too worked up about these guys.

I'm not the guy you seem to hhink. At least not to my way of thinking. You're free to feel differently.

yep i think anyone familiar with your record recognises that

and while circumstances always play a role , both vingegaard and lipo crashed out by their own doing . in a sense , it doesnt get more fair than that