Five Mexico players test positive for banned substance

[Pharazon]

Five Mexico internationals have tested positive for the banned substance clenbuterol.

The players named are goalkeeper Guillermo Ochoa, defenders Francisco Rodriguez and Edgar Duenas and midfielders Antonio Naelson 'Sinha' and Christian Bermudez.

Mexico are currently taking part in Concacaf Gold Cup in the United States.

They beat El Salvador 5-0 in their opening match and face Cuba on Thursday in Charlotte, North Carolina.

this feels like a tainted meat story to me

 

[bohino11]

I was just about to post a link here then saw your post. Here is the link http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/13719472.stm

Looks like a blatant case of tainted meat alright.

Interesting that a goalkeeper is one of those who tested positive. Can't see any performance enhancing need for a goalie to take it. I think this could play a huge part in Alberto Contador's case and will probably see him cleared.

 

[Bala Verde]

this feels like a tainted meat story to me

Playing for Club America, PSV, Toluca, Toluca, Atlante respectively. Let's wait and see how their teams are going to 'sanction' them...

 

[issoisso]

Playing for Club America, PSV, Toluca, Toluca, Atlante respectively. Let's wait and see how their teams are going to 'sanction' them...

Ouch. Sucks especially for Ochoa. He's an incredible keeper and has offers from half the world's best teams.

Should be interesting to see if any are still interested after this.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Ouch. Sucks especially for Ochoa. He's an incredible keeper and has offers from half the world's best teams.

Should be interesting to see if any are still interested after this.

I don't think it will cause much in the way of problems. Edgar Davids, Jaap Stam and Rio Ferdinand haven't had much trouble. If he's as good as his reputation, teams won't give a damn.

 

[Lanark]

Playing for Club America, PSV, Toluca, Toluca, Atlante respectively. Let's wait and see how their teams are going to 'sanction' them...

The dutch news report on this as well (because of the PSV player):

Positieve test PSV'er Rodriguez

PSV'er Francisco 'Maza' Rodriguez is bij een dopingcontrole op het toernooi om de Gold Cup in de Verenigde Staten, waaraan hij deelneemt met de Mexicaanse ploeg, positief bevonden op het verboden middel clenbuterol.

Naast Rodriguez hadden ook zijn ploeggenoten Guillermo Ochoa (America), Christian Bermudez (Atlante), Antonio Naelson Sinha en Edgar Duenas (beiden Toluca) een positieve plas. De vijf lopen de kans geschorst te worden. Ze zijn voorlopig al uitgesloten voor het Amerikaanse evenement.

Clenbuterol wordt illegaal gebruikt in de veeteelt om spiermassa te kweken. Het eten van behandeld vlees - Mexico heeft een slechte naam in dezen - leidt bijna onvermijdelijk tot een positieve test.

The first two paragraphs are just the basics (Rodriguez caught with Clenbuterol, other teammates as well etc.), but the last paragraph is pretty mindblowing. They say (translation by me):

Clenbuterol is used illegaly in cattle-breeding to develop mussle mass. Eating contaminatet meat - Mexico has a bad name in this area - leads almost inevitably to a positive test.

Now, sure, this certainly looks like a contamination scenario is likely, but does the press really have to 'explain' a positive test before even the players who got caught have reacted to it? But then again, this is football, better not suggest that there is even a chance of somebody doping.

 

[Oldman]

I was just about to post a link here then saw your post. Here is the link http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/13719472.stm

Looks like a blatant case of tainted meat alright.

Interesting that a goalkeeper is one of those who tested positive. Can't see any performance enhancing need for a goalie to take it. I think this could play a huge part in Alberto Contador's case and will probably see him cleared.

Not if these guys have been in the US for a period of time and haven't had exposure to "tainted meat" in a manner consistent with their test levels. By the way...goalies need to be fast and if losing weight helps them leap they might use it.
Either way each individual will have a case to explain and, unless it concludes very quickly; it is unlikely that it helps Alberto. Quite the contrary as it may indicate more widespread abuse of PEDs in football.

 

[issoisso]

The dutch news report on this as well (because of the PSV player):

The first two paragraphs are just the basics (Rodriguez caught with Clenbuterol, other teammates as well etc.), but the last paragraph is pretty mindblowing. They say (translation by me):



Now, sure, this certainly looks like a contamination scenario is likely, but does the press really have to 'explain' a positive test before even the players who got caught have reacted to it? But then again, this is football, better not suggest that there is even a chance of somebody doping.

Very recently a mexican cyclist was cleared after he proved the meat was indeed contaminated. It came to light that a ludicrously high (I can't remember the exact number) percentage of mexican meat is contaminated.

 

[bohino11]

[/B]

Not if these guys have been in the US for a period of time and haven't had exposure to "tainted meat" in a manner consistent with their test levels. By the way...goalies need to be fast and if losing weight helps them leap they might use it.
Either way each individual will have a case to explain and, unless it concludes very quickly; it is unlikely that it helps Alberto. Quite the contrary as it may indicate more widespread abuse of PEDs in football.

You raise some very valid points, and yes when I think about it this may indicate that clenbuterol is being used by many sports as a performance enhancer.

Besides this however I feel this will be cleared up very quickly. These players are on international duty and unless one of them suggested to his team-mates that they should all try some it is highly unlikely that this is a case of doping. If they were from the same club side and spent a lot of time together I could see a likelihood of organised doping but in this case I really feel they are likely to have shared a meal together.

 

[Oldman]

You raise some very valid points, and yes when I think about it this may indicate that clenbuterol is being used by many sports as a performance enhancer.

Besides this however I feel this will be cleared up very quickly. These players are on international duty and unless one of them suggested to his team-mates that they should all try some it is highly unlikely that this is a case of doping. If they were from the same club side and spent a lot of time together I could see a likelihood of organised doping but in this case I really feel they are likely to have shared a meal together.

I hope for their sake you are right as it does seem far fetched. Merkcx: what's the lifespan of Clen in the system through food ingestion?

Either way this doesn't help/hurt Contador as his handlers claimed the meat was from Spain.

 

[Merckx index]

Nothing has apparently been reported yet about the level of CB detected. Studies have shown that, yes, a lot of Mexican meat is “contaminated”, meaning it wouldn’t pass EU inspection, but even so, much of that contaminated meat would not produce the level of CB found in Bert (50 ng/ml)—which really was not that high.

Keep in mind that it took a highly sensitive apparatus to finger Bert. A more typical detection limit is around 100-200 ng/ml, and even that is far below the minimum detection limit required. To test at 200 ng/ml, you have to eat meat contaminated at a level that seems to be pretty uncommon even in Mexico. Still, we are talking about maybe 1-10%, odds far better than what Bert faces in Spain. To test at the minimum detection limit of 2 ug/ml you would have to eat meat so contaminated that you might start worrying about a public health problem. So the actual level of CB detected could be quite relevant to their prospects of being cleared.

Beyond that, I think for these players to get off, they need to establish: 1) they all ate meat from the same source; and 2) (if possible) there was no one else who ate this meat who did not test positive.

 

[The Hitch]

What a shame that Man u forward isnt one of them.

 

[Paco_P]

When the Contador positive first arose, there were a lot of questions why Contador was taking clenbuterol in particular, since it wasn't clear to everybody what its benefits were.

As these things have played out it is clear that one of its benefits is that if one gets caught one can allege having eaten tainted meat.

 

[Benotti69]

I was just about to post a link here then saw your post. Here is the link http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/13719472.stm

Looks like a blatant case of tainted meat alright.

Interesting that a goalkeeper is one of those who tested positive. Can't see any performance enhancing need for a goalie to take it. I think this could play a huge part in Alberto Contador's case and will probably see him cleared.

a team showing contamination is one thing but a single rider is a totally different scenario.

 

[sniper]

I'm surprised five players test positive, cuz as I understand it, the FIFA usually test only one or two players after a match.
Seems testing in CONCACAF is or has become more strict.

 

[Havetts]

a team showing contamination is one thing but a single rider is a totally different scenario.

Exactly, five players is something else than 1 rider and the riders on his team didnt test positive for clen..

 

[Frosty]

I'm surprised five players test positive, cuz as I understand it, the FIFA usually test only one or two players after a match.
Seems testing in CONCACAF is or has become more strict.

Yeah i thought that too. Turns out that they were tested at their training camp in Mexico

http://www.concacaf.com/page/GoldCup/NewsDetail/0,,12813~2374230,00.html

'The five all tested positive for clenbuterol, a drug used to treat breathing disorders, during the team's Mexico training camp in Mexico prior to the Gold Cup. Mexican officials say they believe the positive tests were caused by eating meat tainted with the drug.'

 

[Frosty]

Exactly, five players is something else than 1 rider and the riders on his team didnt test positive for clen..

How many others in his team were tested at the same time and at the same lab? Vino was tested but the story goes that he didnt eat at the same time or ate something else.

 

[Cloxxki]

Moral of the story: only take those PEDs which are already a natural part of the food chain which end with you.
I happen to be a large meat eater. For the proteins, it just works such miracles to my body. I am stronger than I was 15 years ago when I trained much harder.
If only we can find some tainted meat in Holland, I can start taking the good stuff

 

[bohino11]

a team showing contamination is one thing but a single rider is a totally different scenario.

My original point here may have been a bit hasty and I might have got a bit excited when I read the story first. That being said, however, most legal systems as I understand rely on precedents to define how someone should be tried. That means that the more athletes that are proven to have tested positive for Clenbuterol by accident the stronger a case that Alberto Contador's legal team can build. If this case is dealt with quickly they can cite this as another example of what they claim has been accidental doping.

It would be probably be more beneficial to Contador if one player had been contaminated and was proven innocent and if it had happened in Spain. Despite this it could still play a part in his legal defence as it can be added to other cases where Clenbuterol was supposedly taken accidently and show how easily it could happen to anyone. To dismiss this completely would be a mistake I feel for his legal team

 

[bohino11]

How many others in his team were tested at the same time and at the same lab? Vino was tested but the story goes that he didnt eat at the same time or ate something else.

14 players were tested at the same time on the 21st of May apparently. They claim to have taken the contaminated meat between the 17th and 20th of May.

 

[thirteen]

How many others in his team were tested at the same time and at the same lab? Vino was tested but the story goes that he didnt eat at the same time or ate something else.

nobody else.

only AC and Vino (who ate fish, i believe, elsewhere).

that's why it isn't necessarily a "gotcha" that the rest of the team didn't come up positive as well... how could they when they weren't even tested?

 

[Benotti69]

My original point here may have been a bit hasty and I might have got a bit excited when I read the story first. That being said, however, most legal systems as I understand rely on precedents to define how someone should be tried. That means that the more athletes that are proven to have tested positive for Clenbuterol by accident the stronger a case that Alberto Contador's legal team can build. If this case is dealt with quickly they can cite this as another example of what they claim has been accidental doping.

It would be probably be more beneficial to Contador if one player had been contaminated and was proven innocent and if it had happened in Spain. Despite this it could still play a part in his legal defence as it can be added to other cases where Clenbuterol was supposedly taken accidently and show how easily it could happen to anyone. To dismiss this completely would be a mistake I feel for his legal team

Ok. Some big differences. Contador claims that he only ate a steak specially delivered from the Basque region of Spain! No one else in the team had it, allegedly or if they did they weren't tested. This is Europe not Mexico and Contador's case is only comparable in that they tested positive for Clenbuterol. End of. Precedence may be set in 2nd or 3rd world countries and may apply to athletes who have recently made a trip there.

 

[bohino11]

Ok. Some big differences. Contador claims that he only ate a steak specially delivered from the Basque region of Spain! No one else in the team had it, allegedly or if they did they weren't tested. This is Europe not Mexico and Contador's case is only comparable in that they tested positive for Clenbuterol. End of. Precedence may be set in 2nd or 3rd world countries and may apply to athletes who have recently made a trip there.

As I said it would be better if it had happened in Spain. The fact they tested positive of Clenbuterol isn't the only comparison. They are also professional athletes who would be careful what they consume. They are also going to claim it was from meat. I'm not trying to say that the whole Contador case will be built on this. I just said it could be mentioned.

As I have said my original post was hasty as I hadn't thought the whole thing through. I think you need to maybe take a step back and see it could be used in the case. Obviously my original post that it would see him cleared was an overreaction but to but to say that the only comparisons are that they tested positive for Clenbuterol looks like you just want to attack my post.

 

[Benotti69]

As I said it would be better if it had happened in Spain. The fact they tested positive of Clenbuterol isn't the only comparison. They are also professional athletes who would be careful what they consume. They are also going to claim it was from meat. I'm not trying to say that the whole Contador case will be built on this. I just said it could be mentioned.

As I have said my original post was hasty as I hadn't thought the whole thing through. I think you need to maybe take a step back and see it could be used in the case. Obviously my original post that it would see him cleared was an overreaction but to but to say that the only comparisons are that they tested positive for Clenbuterol looks like you just want to attack my post.

CAS looks at each case individually. If there is a precedence for Spanish meat being contaminated then it might have some relevance to Contador's case. If Contador had been abroad training in countries known for Clenbuterol misuse in farm animals then it also might have some relevance. But for sure Contador's legal team will be trying to use it to contest he is innocent.

I only see a comparison in that they are athletes that tested positive for Clen.