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Following on from Floyd...

Jun 16, 2009
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Well done Gilbert, he gives me more reasons to like him. Just confirms my hunch about Valverde. I find it interesting that valverde being suspended for a doping ban is allowed to ride with Team Movistar! Now how is that fair?
 
Dec 21, 2010
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I'm a little sceptical of the timing, i love Gilbert to pieces, but why's he said this now? Seems like he's almost jumping on the band wagon to FLandis has kicked.

Still, none of what he says is very surprising.

auscyclefan94 said:
Well done Gilbert, he gives me more reasons to like him. Just confirms my hunch about Valverde. I find it interesting that valverde being suspended for a doping ban is allowed to ride with Team Movistar! Now how is that fair?
Meh, i'm sure most pro's with bans ride in training blocks with teams.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Gilbert? what has he said? whats this thread about? or is it secret?
 
It's on CN, he said Valverde and Pereiro tried to enforce omertà on him in 2006 for something Madiot said about Puerto.

As a Spaniard, what worries me the most is that I've never heard a top Spanish pro openly attacking dopers or even doping. Either the culture change is farther away from here than from other countries, or riders here are less cynical and hypocritical. Both are pretty bleak prospects.
 
Jun 4, 2010
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Met de Versnelling said:
I'm a little sceptical of the timing, i love Gilbert to pieces, but why's he said this now? Seems like he's almost jumping on the band wagon to FLandis has kicked.
Well, that's how change could be effected. Jump on the bandwagon, I say, there's still plenty of room.
 
Jun 12, 2010
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Met de Versnelling said:
I'm a little sceptical of the timing, i love Gilbert to pieces, but why's he said this now? Seems like he's almost jumping on the band wagon to FLandis has kicked.
The truth of the matter is theres always been a cowed minority within the peloton tottaly fecked of with it...Landis`s revalations were a like a damn developing a crack..the more info that keeps leaking the more confident that cowed minority become....with luck...and a big efort if they sence " victory" that trickle could bring the whole damm of omerta crashing down.

Fingers crossed!:rolleyes:
 
May 12, 2010
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Met de Versnelling said:
I'm a little sceptical of the timing, i love Gilbert to pieces, but why's he said this now? Seems like he's almost jumping on the band wagon to FLandis has kicked.
If this interview was in a January edition of ProCycling magazine, it was probably taken before the Landis interview appeared online.
 
Dec 21, 2010
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Lanark said:
If this interview was in a January edition of ProCycling magazine, it was probably taken before the Landis interview appeared online.
Nah, it's definitely NOT in the magazine, i have the January issue, and just double checked. In fact, funnily enough, there's a lovely interview with Oscar about his impending retirement.

EDIT: Just realised, it might be in the February issue if they spoke IN Jan, going to have a dig now.

SECOND EDIT: Nope, not in Feb's. Weird.

Darryl and Elegant, yeah, you make a good point there, i wasn't thinking very clearly. Not enough caffeine this morning! I think it was due to the fact i was quite surprised to see PhilGil be so vocal the situation he was in. The bandwagon i was referring to was the kicking of Oscar, but you make the wider point well.

More to the point though, will this re-open anything on Oscar?
 
Oct 6, 2009
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Lanark said:
If this interview was in a January edition of ProCycling magazine, it was probably taken before the Landis interview appeared online.
This. And it has been picked up by other media and made into a more widespread story because it coincided nicely with Floyd's allegations re. Pereiro and doping.

--

Edit - OK have now seen Met's post above. Am confused. The CN article says this about the timing:

Speaking in January to Cyclingnews’s sister publication Procycling magazine, Gilbert said . . .
So apparently Gilbert gave the interview in January but it hasn't been published until now, I guess?
 
Darryl Webster said:
The truth of the matter is theres always been a cowed minority within the peloton tottaly fecked of with it...Landis`s revalations were a like a damn developing a crack..the more info that keeps leaking the more confident that cowed minority become....with luck...and a big efort if they sence " victory" that trickle could bring the whole damm of omerta crashing down.

Fingers crossed!:rolleyes:
Hopefully this is true. But I suspect that the people who are really refusing to participate in or condone the culture of doping are stuck in, say, Adam Meyerson's shoes. (I only mention him b/c he recently paid a visit to the forum.)
 
Sep 15, 2010
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Darryl Webster said:
The truth of the matter is theres always been a cowed minority within the peloton tottaly fecked of with it...Landis`s revalations were a like a damn developing a crack..the more info that keeps leaking the more confident that cowed minority become....with luck...and a big efort if they sence " victory" that trickle could bring the whole damm of omerta crashing down.

Fingers crossed!:rolleyes:
We can always hope
 
hrotha said:
It's on CN, he said Valverde and Pereiro tried to enforce omertà on him in 2006 for something Madiot said about Puerto.

As a Spaniard, what worries me the most is that I've never heard a top Spanish pro openly attacking dopers or even doping. Either the culture change is farther away from here than from other countries, or riders here are less cynical and hypocritical. Both are pretty bleak prospects.
It's cultural to a degree and I say both your hypothesis are valid. I can speak for Italy, though from what you say I'm convinced both countries are similar in this regard.

As to culture change being farther away? In Italy we have a prime minister who throws bunga, bunga parties with teenage girls and a large percentage of the women and men in this country couldn't care less.

As to riders being less cynical or hypocritical elsewhere? I think not, but probably more furbo, which means "sly", though not in the negative, serpent like sense as it usually does in English where its more prized to be candid. Indeed being candido in Italian society means being naive, not pure and sincere, and thus subject to being defrauded , which is why it's "smarter" to be furbo in life. We get alot of bad press in Italy and a certain degree of scorn, but the "Italian" mentality within the sport is probably rather similar to Spain's from what you suggest.

When it comes to things such as these ethical concerns, the Latin peoples of Southern Europe have a less rigid perspective as is well known than say the Anglo-Saxon/Germanic societies. Even if that doesn't necessarily mean, of course, that the latter cultures are more ethical than those in the former. However try having a political leader who behaves the same way as Berlusconi in those other countries I mentioned, and see how their societies would respond.

And after all omerta' is an Italian word. How would you translate omerta' in German? In English it would be something like "honor" and showing "respect" through silence. See what I mean?
 
Jul 29, 2010
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Archibald said:
interesting comment from Oscar...


does this actually mean that he's been successful with it and never had a problem doping?
or is there some lost-in-translation thing here?
All you have to do is read b/w the lines, and they are miles wide at this point.
Its obvious what he's saying: Me, never positive, credible. Floyd, positive, thus no credibility.

As BarryBonds was fond of saying: "Go ahead guys -- test me!"
 
Jul 22, 2009
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rhubroma said:
As to culture change being farther away? In Italy we have a prime minister who throws bunga, bunga parties with teenage girls and a large percentage of the women and men in this country couldn't care less.
Well, I'd rather have a president that throws bunga-bunga parties with teenage girls than one that makes decisions that kill hundreds of thousands of human beings. See George W. Bush and Madeleine Albright and the sanctions on Iraq, for example.

When it comes to things such as these ethical concerns, the Latin peoples of Southern Europe have a less rigid perspective as is well known than say the Anglo-Saxon/Germanic societies.
This is simply not true. Two of the worst acts of human attrocities in the past 200 years, namely the dropping of the atomic bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the Holocaust, were carried out by people of Germanic and Anglo-Saxon heritage.


Just a thought.
 
Mar 19, 2010
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rhubroma said:
It's cultural to a degree and I say both your hypothesis are valid. I can speak for Italy, though from what you say I'm convinced both countries are similar in this regard.

As to culture change being farther away? In Italy we have a prime minister who throws bunga, bunga parties with teenage girls and a large percentage of the women and men in this country couldn't care less.

As to riders being less cynical or hypocritical elsewhere? I think not, but probably more furbo, which means "sly", though not in the negative, serpent like sense as it usually does in English where its more prized to be candid. Indeed being candido in Italian society means being naive, not pure and sincere, and thus subject to being defrauded , which is why it's "smarter" to be furbo in life. We get alot of bad press in Italy and a certain degree of scorn, but the "Italian" mentality within the sport is probably rather similar to Spain's from what you suggest.

When it comes to things such as these ethical concerns, the Latin peoples of Southern Europe have a less rigid perspective as is well known than say the Anglo-Saxon/Germanic societies. Even if that doesn't necessarily mean, of course, that the latter cultures are more ethical than those in the former. However try having a political leader who behaves the same way as Berlusconi in those other countries I mentioned, and see how their societies would respond.

And after all omerta' is an Italian word. How would you translate omerta' in German? In English it would be something like "honor" and showing "respect" through silence. See what I mean?
As a thorough "mezcla" I can tell you that latin people tend to look their sins in the face. Latin people watch the bull get slaughtered and appreciate the skill of the matador. Northern Europeans give money to animal rights before stopping of at Macdonalds for a hamburger. Southern Europeans investigate doping through police and are zealous in their anti-doping approach. Not so much in the north. You get where I'm going?

Human beings are basically hideous/beautiful wherever they come from.
 
Apr 20, 2009
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Beech Mtn said:
And it has been picked up by other media and made into a more widespread story because it coincided nicely with Floyd's allegations re. Pereiro and doping.
al·le·ga·tion   
[al-i-gey-shuhn]
–noun
1. the act of alleging; affirmation.
2. an assertion made with little or no proof.
3. an assertion made by a party in a legal proceeding, which the party then undertakes to prove.
4. a statement offered as a plea, excuse, or justification.

Floyd's casual comments to Kimmage regarding Oscar Pereiro's last blood bag were not made in the context of his doping, but of the possible outcomes for the 2006 TDF final stages. This is a long ways from an allegation... which is what makes it all that much more believable.
 
What did Gilbert say? Nothing at all... He only said Valverde and Pereiro came to him because they were annoyed with the comments. That can either be because they (or one of them) had to hide something or because they didn't want their names spoiled. Absolutely non-news this.
 

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