Frischkorn Interview

[MarkvW]

Very good read.
http://www.theouterline.com/perspectives-on-doping-in-pro-cycling-3-will-frischkorn/

 

[Dear Wiggo]

“Different people made different choices,” Frischkorn observes again. Once you got started using PEDs, he believes, it became increasingly more difficult to stop. “When you find out how fast you can go, it’s hard to quit and go back to being slow again.”

Unless it's 2006, and noone has a problem with it at all...

 

[mewmewmew13]

RR posted this also with a pertinent comment over in the Smackdown On Chris Horner thread.

 

[BroDeal]

Very good read.
http://www.theouterline.com/perspectives-on-doping-in-pro-cycling-3-will-frischkorn/

Whoa, doggies! He cites Scott Moninger as a rider who stayed mostly in the U.S. because he did not want to dope? I guess he bought the tainted supplement scam that Moninger has been peddling for years. The decision makes it clear that Moninger spiked his own supplements to try to win the case. He spiked the supplements with metabolites instead of the actual substance and used an amount of contamination that was ridiculously unrealistic.

 

[blackcat]

"And big picture – he basically invented the business of professional coaching. A lot of people now making a living in the cycling world owe that to him."

lol

only think Carmichael invented was extract of cortisone.

not liking this article and the spin. he learnt well did padawan

 

[42x16ss]

"And big picture – he basically invented the business of professional coaching. A lot of people now making a living in the cycling world owe that to him."

lol

only think Carmichael invented was extract of cortisone.

not liking this article and the spin. he learnt well did padawan

Spin? Didn't really see that much, just thought it was obvious he was holding a lot back. Would have liked to see him spill more but it looks like he's not dwelling too much on the past.

 

[blackcat]

Spin? Didn't really see that much, just thought it was obvious he was holding a lot back. Would have liked to see him spill more but it looks like he's not dwelling too much on the past.

yeah, i reckon he will read this thread, in which case:

"Will, I don't believe you".

 

[Master50]

"What actually seems to bother him more are the riders who now retroactively make the claim that, “I could have been really good if I had used EPO, but I wanted to stay clean.” “There are a lot of pretty middling riders who use the whole clean thing to explain why they didn’t get further. And they do it with this holier than thou attitude, assuming everybody who made it further than them in the sport must have been doping,” says Will. “Most of these guys didn’t get very far because they basically weren’t that good.” The only thing worse, he says, are those guys in the States “who were doped to the gills and still couldn’t win any races!”
I liked this comment. It certainly speaks to the complex relationships and differing talents. I get that rider y feels that the recently convicted doping rider X stole opportunity except that rider Y was much less talented regardless of the doping. Worse the number of riders that doped, only to carry bottles?
Alternately there were some very good riders, reduced to water carriers because they did not cross the line.

 

[Race Radio]

The only thing worse, he says, are those guys in the States “who were doped to the gills and still couldn’t win any races!”

.....Joe Papp

 

[DirtyWorks]

Spin? Didn't really see that much, just thought it was obvious he was holding a lot back. Would have liked to see him spill more but it looks like he's not dwelling too much on the past.

I got the feeling he's had the Bank of Mom and Dad perpetually supporting him as he described having many options in life. With an abundance of of life options, it's easy not to dwell and be "the good guy" in almost all situations.

In general, that prosperity background is pretty typical of the modern American cyclist USACDF "supports" because they can afford to buy the packages USACDF sells.

 

[pmcg76]

I got the feeling he's had the Bank of Mom and Dad perpetually supporting him as he described having many options in life. With an abundance of of life options, it's easy not to dwell and be "the good guy" in almost all situations.

In general, that prosperity background is pretty typical of the modern American cyclist USACDF "supports" because they can afford to buy the packages USACDF sells.

I think he made it clear that he had options that many others might not have had, but then Tyler Hamilton wasn't exactly from a poor or broken home either, yet doped.

Likewise everyone is convinced Froome is doped but he is from a relatively wealthy ex-pat background.

Being from a better-off background might mean you have more options but it is more likely to be the values instilled in a person and the people around them that can influence their decision's. I don't think the fact that this guy was from a wealthier background should be used to diminish what he is saying.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I don't think the fact that this guy was from a wealthier background should be used to diminish what he is saying.

I agree with your entire post, but I think I didn't explain things so well. It wasn't meant to diminish his comments. It's more a comment about the scarcity the structure of the sport induces at lower ranks.

It's quite true, coming from a wealthy background doesn't make one any more or less likely to dope. There are plenty of examples of that.

It sure seems like his parents set him up for success in life. I don't mean that monetarily. Pretty sound decision making overall.

 

[Rip:30]

Oh yes he is a major trustfunder. Take away the parental bank role, try to work a job while coming up through the ranks and see how far you get Will.

 

[Race Radio]

It sure seems like his parents set him up for success in life. I don't mean that monetarily. Pretty sound decision making overall.

I spent the day with Will's dad many years ago. Great guy. Yes, very successful but very down to earth. He clearly cared about his son and wanted him to have a balanced life.

 

[The Hitch]

Likewise everyone is convinced Froome is doped but he is from a relatively wealthy ex-pat background.

That's not how he tells it. Couldnt afford cycling shoes even in early pro years. Cycled only on goat tracks. Entire family riddled with bilharzia and can't afford a doctor to tell them the basic info that charities have been giving out for free for decades.

 

[mewmewmew13]

That's not how he tells it. Couldnt afford cycling shoes even in early pro years. Cycled only on goat tracks. Entire family riddled with bilharzia and can't afford a doctor to tell them the basic info that charities have been giving out for free for decades.

Frischkorn never had to ride in sand shoes.

 

[Race Radio]

For what it is worth Roman Kreuziger comes from a wealthy family.....didn't help him make the right choices

 

[Dear Wiggo]

JV's early life wasn't too hard either, was it?

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Thanks for this thread Mark. It is clear Frischkorn is a very well grounded man. It is also clear he had the benefit of a very supportive family, who took an interest in his life/career and instilled in him sound fundamental values. They did not try to manipulate his future but rather were available as a wise and caring sounding board to assist him to make the decisions he did.

And it is correct that others who came from "well off" families succumbed to drugs. So social economic status (SES) does not guarantee a child making good choices, but it appears strong, caring, empathetic and involved parents can sure help. Hamilton has made it clear he cannot understand his choice to dope given the great upbringing he had, and I am sure this still causes him some pain.

When one looks at the difference between Frischkorn's upbringing and Armstrong's the differences are massive. But rather than get into a psychosocial analysis of why some dope and others don't in the end everyone has choices.

The difference between Frischkorn's choices and Armstrongs is that Frischkorn did not cause untold misery for others. Armstrong's choices have had a profound ripple effect on the reputation of cycling, corruption at the UCI, the lives and careers of his team-mates, his detestable behaviour towards peloton colleagues like Bassons, his family, his former friends, the cancer victim community, and the lives of people like the Andreus and Lemonds. Choices have consequences. Selfish choices have profound consequences.

The other part of the story I really liked is Frischkorn makes it clear life, real life, is so much, much more than cycling.

 

[MarkvW]

Thanks for this thread Mark. It is clear Frischkorn is a very well grounded man. It is also clear he had the benefit of a very supportive family, who took an interest in his life/career and instilled in him sound fundamental values. They did not try to manipulate his future but rather were available as a wise and caring sounding board to assist him to make the decisions he did.

And it is correct that others who came from "well off" families succumbed to drugs. So social economic status (SES) does not guarantee a child making good choices, but it appears strong, caring, empathetic and involved parents can sure help. Hamilton has made it clear he cannot understand his choice to dope given the great upbringing he had, and I am sure this still causes him some pain.

When one looks at the difference between Frischkorn's upbringing and Armstrong's the differences are massive. But rather than get into a psychosocial analysis of why some dope and others don't in the end everyone has choices.

The difference between Frischkorn's choices and Armstrongs is that Frischkorn did not cause untold misery for others. Armstrong's choices have had a profound ripple effect on the reputation of cycling, corruption at the UCI, the lives and careers of his team-mates, his detestable behaviour towards peloton colleagues like Bassons, his family, his former friends, the cancer victim community, and the lives of people like the Andreus and Lemonds. Choices have consequences. Selfish choices have profound consequences.

The other part of the story I really liked is Frischkorn makes it clear life, real life, is so much, much more than cycling.

So much of the peloton, especially the European guys, don't have much to fall back on. That makes them economically quite vulnerable, as well as vulnerable to doping. Pro cycling's a harsh business.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

So much of the peloton, especially the European guys, don't have much to fall back on. That makes them economically quite vulnerable, as well as vulnerable to doping. Pro cycling's a harsh business.

You got that right. It is why, IMO, hey need a real union and not the kind of riders association under the umbrella of the UCI. Every other major sport in North America at least has one and the wages for even mediocre players are fantastic and they have medical, pension plans and investment counselling advice etc.

IMO if only the riders realized they are the ones with the power they could change the whole structure of cycling in such a way that at least the monetary incentive to dope could be substantially reduced.

 

[blackcat]

"What actually seems to bother him more are the riders who now retroactively make the claim that, “I could have been really good if I had used EPO, but I wanted to stay clean.” “There are a lot of pretty middling riders who use the whole clean thing to explain why they didn’t get further. And they do it with this holier than thou attitude, assuming everybody who made it further than them in the sport must have been doping,” says Will. “Most of these guys didn’t get very far because they basically weren’t that good.” The only thing worse, he says, are those guys in the States “who were doped to the gills and still couldn’t win any races!”
I liked this comment. It certainly speaks to the complex relationships and differing talents. I get that rider y feels that the recently convicted doping rider X stole opportunity except that rider Y was much less talented regardless of the doping. Worse the number of riders that doped, only to carry bottles?
Alternately there were some very good riders, reduced to water carriers because they did not cross the line.

but WF goes onto say that he would have been really good on epo because his crit was 42, something does not quite fit