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As he was the better TTer and far better on the gravel than those two, he'd not have needed to outclimb them to be better than them.
My dude, he lost time to Landa and Almeida on the climber's part of the TT (Col d'Eze) which did not include his mishap at the start. It proves little either way. Nobody is claiming Almeida to be definitely among the top 5 best. Yet for Jorgenson, apparently different rules apply. But again, the fact that we are having this discussion proves my point. Nobody is talking about a guy who has finished in the top 6 of a GT for the 3rd time now, he isn't even mentioned by people making top 15 lists. But Jorgenson is banging on the door of top 5. Sure thing.
If you just want to look at past results then go stare at UCI points tables. A power ranking is about reading between the lines.
Nobody claimed Jorgenson is "definitely" 5th best but everyone except Thymen's dad and you thinks he's better than Thymen.
The climber's part was Turbie, and despite his crash he was faster than Landa and Almeida there. At T2, including both uphill parts, he was also ahead of both.
In a week stage race sure, I’m talking about a GT. As of now Jorgenson isn’t ahead of either in a GT.
Weak race or not; it's the only multi-day race he's been featured. After seeing him be the only one to bridge to Tadej, check back and drop off to get Jonas and then bridge back forcefully shows pedigree. Gotta wonder what those two could've done if left alone and Visma began controlling with them.
I meant week stage race, not the Tour de France was weak.
But i have so much to live for!
Arensman rode well in Giro and Vuelta, not really comparable to the hardest GT ever. Not to mention that Jorgensen is growing in this role as a rider. There is a case to be made about first seeing if Jorgensen can be consistent and perform multiple GT’s like this, but time will tell. For me at the moment I expect Jorgensen to be better since I haven’t really seen much progress with Arensman anyway. Like Netserk said, I doubt he would’ve finished in the top 10.
Will be very interested in whether Jorgenson gets the go ahead to train specifically for a GT. He sure looks like a podium threat in tt heavy course.
I think he could well have beaten Buitrago and Ciccone. I'd actually say quite likely. Especially since he usually starts his GT's slow and needs to grow into them. And it was never my intention to claim he 'd have been better than Jorgenson. Just to point out the discrepancy between how they are perceived in light of their achievements.
In fairness the top ten below Jorgenson is not much better than the Giro top 6. I feel Ciccone and Buitrago would've been around Arensman for sure; Gee, who knows. Might be a fluke, or he might win the Giro next year.
Agree with all of this, except I would put Mas in the tier 3 group as well. Thomas is as much of a Giro specialist these days as Mas is a Vuelta specialist.
I 100% agree, but getting 2nd and 4th indicates he’s a good bet to finish high, no? He isn’t afraid to go for it, unlike some. That often makes him blow up, but also has earned him some nice results.
4th in the Giro was in a really poor field - he beat Tiberi by less than the time Tiberi lost due to his stage 2 mechanical, and Tiberi definitely isn't top-10 material at this stage, plus the next guys were Arensman, Rubio and Hirt who I wouldn't even consider for a top-20. In this Vuelta, while both his solo his defence after taking red shouldn't be discounted, a GC where you scrap the results of stage 6 does put him behind Skjelmose and Gaudu. The chances of him ever putting up this good a year results-wise in the GTs again are probably even slimmer than they were for Kuss this time last year, and we've all seen how that's gone down.
Using your criteria -- who would do best if everyone started an average GT route in usual form -- I'm pretty close to this ranking, although I'd move up C-Rod and A. Yates and move down Carapaz and Landa. I agree that Almeida has emerged as a solid No. 5 and has some separation between him and Mas.
I hear where you’re coming from. It’s also complicated by the fact that the next tier of GC contenders, aside from Mas, work for other riders (aside from Ayuso, who was supposed to do that and refused). If everyone rode for himself, I think A Yates needs to be higher.
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