Gesink's time trialling abilities

[auscyclefan94]

Now before I start this thread I first want to say that this thread is not meant to bait posters or be provocative. I just wanted a friendly discussion of what people think about certain riders. I hope we are all mature enough to respect each others opinio and point of view on this issue.

I thought I would start this thread because it has been a topic which has always interrupted other thread topics and I thought it is about time that it has its own thread.


I collected Gesink's results from the tt over his career but I may have missed the odd one. The formatting of the results may be a bit 'out of whack' so I apologise.

2010
109 Tour de France, Stage 19 : Bordeaux - Pauillac I.T.T.
40 Tour de Suisse, Stage 9 : Liestal - Liestal I.T.T.
48 Tour de Suisse, Stage 1 : Lugano I.T.T.
15 Vuelta al Pais Vasco, Stage 6 : Orio - Orio I.T.T.

2009

30 Vuelta a España, Stage 20 : Toledo - Toledo I.T.T.
28 Vuelta a España, Stage 7 : Valencia I.T.T.
30 Tour de France, Stage 1 : Monaco I.T.T.
13 Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré, Stage 4 : Bourg-lès-Valence - Valence I.T.T.
46 Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré, Stage 1 : Nancy I.T.T.
8 Vuelta al Pais Vasco, Stage 6 : Zalla - Zalla I.T.T.
6 Tirreno - Adriatico, Stage 5 : Loreto - Macerata I.T.T.
13 Tour of California, Stage 6 : Solvang I.T.T.

2008

9 Vuelta a España, Stage 20 : La Granja de San Ildefonso - Alto de Navacerrada I.T.T.
26 Vuelta a España, Stage 5 : Ciudad Real I.T.T.
10 Olympic Games (Beijing) - I.T.T.
10 Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré, Stage 3 : Saint-Paul-en-Jarez I.T.T.
15 Ronde van België / Tour de Belgique, Stage 4 : Herzele I.T.T.
5 Vuelta al Pais Vasco, Stage 6 : Orio I.T.T.
106 Paris - Nice, Prologue : Amilly I.T.T.
20 Tour of California, Stage 5 : Solvang I.T.T.

2007

68 Tour de Romandie, Prologue : Freiburg I.T.T.
35 Tour de Romandie, Stage 5 : Lausanne I.T.T.
104 Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré, Prologue : Grenoble I.T.T.
55 Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré, Stage 3 : Anneyron I.T.T.
29 Deutschland-Tour, Stage 8 : Fürth I.T.T.
14 Tour de Pologne, Stage 1 : Warszawa T.T.T.


Now I would like to give the people who strongly believe Gesink is a good time trialler their turn to plead their case then people who beleive he isn't a good time trialler or is only a mediocre time trialler have their time to plead their case.

Lets try to leave out the insults and keep the topic from going off course.

Thanks,


ACF94

 

[boomcie]

I'll stick my neck out. I still believe he is not a good time trialist.

But if I'm wrong and he is good at it (or rather, became good at it), I don't see how he would not snatch a grand tour victory within this and two years.

 

[Jamsque]

Gesink has all of the ability to be a solid TT rider, but he needs to perform to the best of his ability much more consistently if he really wants to content for top level stage races and GTs. Finishing inside the top 50 all the time is great, but it's not going to be enough to challenge for the GC in the vast majority of races.

 

[Moondance]

He's a decent time trialist right now, with the potential to (if he really improves his position and handling) to become a good time trialist. He'll do well on time trials which play to his strength (climbing) and will struggle on the pancake TTs. I doubt he'll ever win a flat TT or prologue, he's just not aerodynamic enough.

 

[Frosty]

Looking back at the results he does best when its hilly. Given that his form might have been better than other people's then its difficult to judge the Oman performance. Maybe his tour de suisse disaster last year has given him extra motivation, also the Oman performance was on road bikes rather than TT machines.

I suspect he would still lose quite bad time on flat tt's. However, the real question regarding this season is how much time will he lose in the long tt in the tour? That has two climbs on it but the route profile wont be out until june so how much it will benefit him against the GC contenders who are better on the flat is hard to say at the moment.

 

[flyor64]

Now before I start this thread I first want to say that this thread is not meant to bait posters or be provocative...snipped for brevity...

To the first bold...a little funny that.

But I do wish you luck with the second sentiment...but given the potential volatility of the topic, not sure how you'll keep that from happening.

He's a decent time trialist right now, with the potential to (if he really improves his position and handling) to become a good time trialist. He'll do well on time trials which play to his strength (climbing) and will struggle on the pancake TTs. I doubt he'll ever win a flat TT or prologue, he's just not aerodynamic enough.

Agreed here.

I assume that at least part of the reason for this thread is his result in Oman.

I don't think the parcours could have suited him any better, so I'm not too sure how much of an indication it is when it will come to flat long TTs...the GT stuff.

 

[Nesker]

With his enormous power output (wattage) he can deliver good TT's.

A specialist in the future? NO

Someone who can defend himself in the TT? Yes

 

[Kvinto]

Generally he is a climber, who can minimize his loses in tt, but in certain circumstances he can gain but not lose the time in a such type of race. When it is a flat tt I think his real level is the Valencia ITT (Vuelta 2009) - 28th, +1:33 to Cancellara; but when there are hills, when you ride on a road bike he can do what he did in Saturday.

 

[hrotha]

It's pretty clear he's decent at TTs as long as they aren't too long or too flat.

 

[Kvinto]

It's pretty clear he's decent at TTs as long as they aren't too long or too flat.

Looking at his tt results the distance is not a problem. He can ride a 40km tt well when it is not too flat and not too straight.

 

[theyoungest]

He'll ride his first flat TT with his new TT position at Tirreno. Only then we'll see if the windtunnel testing has really paid off. The TT win in Oman was largely based on uphill power output and suffering. There are not many riders stronger than Gesink in that regard.

 

[The Hitch]

Personally i dont see him matching Contador, Menchov, in Gt tts, or even Nibali Samu, Cadel and kreuziger (or next year Vino). But hes still a whole lot better than the small climbers, Anton, Purito type, so if hes up against them, he can gain time.

Unfortunately for him the gts (especially the only GT he seems to care about), these days anyway, like little tting, but like it to be as flat as possible.

But remember, despite winning against EBH in Oman, Gesink is just one bad itt away from being considered poor again

 

[theyoungest]

Personally i dont see him matching Contador, Menchov, in Gt tts, or even Nibali Samu, Cadel and kreuziger (or next year Vino). But hes still a whole lot better than the small climbers, Anton, Purito type, so if hes up against them, he can gain time.

Unfortunately for him the gts (especially the only GT he seems to care about), these days anyway, like little tting, but like it to be as flat as possible.

But remember, despite winning against EBH in Oman, Gesink is just one bad itt away from being considered poor again

Gesink rode four longer TTs against Nibali in his career so far. And beat him every time.

 

[boomcie]

But remember, despite winning against EBH in Oman, Gesink is just one bad itt away from being considered poor again

Well put. Nevertheless he DID surprise me. I hope he enjoys his days as a TT-master, however long they might last...

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

With his enormous power output (wattage) he can deliver good TT's.

A specialist in the future? NO

Someone who can defend himself in the TT? Yes

This. Nothing to add

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Gesink rode four longer TTs against Nibali in his career so far. And beat him every time.

And again, this.
Also, he beat Kreuziger in long and short itt's quite a few times as well.

But then again, it's a general misconception by many people to see Nibali as some sort of TT ace.

 

[The Hitch]

But then again, it's a general misconception by many people to see Nibali as some sort of TT ace.

But then again you thought it was a misconception that people saw him as a gt rider. You underating The Shark has almost become a running gag here.

No one says Nibali can stick with Contador or Menchov for gt tters. In fact i put him in a league below.

But his highest place in a gt tt has been 6th to Gesinks 9th and hes won a ttt. This happened in the last year. Nibali overall has, be it natural or ferrari, improved over the last 2 years. While Gesinks awesomness in tts up till 2009 has been well documented by you, his performances got worse in 2010, and i await evidence on a tt bike that he has reversed this trend.

So thats why in the near future i would expect Nibali to beat Gesink in a hypothetical gt tt match up.

 

[Lanark]

In theory Gesink should be a great time trialist. Just look at his climbing ability. He isn't some small, explosive fly like Rodriguez or Riccò, he is a guy who can keep a high pace for a very long time. He is a pretty large guy, so he should be producing quite a lote of watt to keep up with the smaller guys (according to Wikipedia he is 13 kilo heavier than Rodriguez). Usually, you would expect something like that to translate to a good time trial (which, in the end is nothing more than keeping a high wattage for a long time).

His problem is: he is about as aerodynamic as a parachute. Just look at his position on his TT-bike:

Compare it to this:

Heck, compare it even to this guy:

This explains why he is pretty good in TT's on a road bike or with some hills, aerodynamics play a much smaller role in those circumstances. Equally, the last TT in the 2010 Tour was pretty much a worst case scenario for him, completely flat with a lot of wind.

Now, a long thin guy doesn't have to have a bad TT-position. Just look at guys like Indurain, Millar or Ullrich. But of course there is more to a good position on the bike than just your length. Maybe he can work on this, a couple of hours in a wind-tunnel in the winter isn't going to cut it. It could be possible that his body just doesn't fit on a TT-bike (with the current UCI-regulations), he will always remain an average TT-rider if that is the case, but if he can make some big aerodynamic improvements, he could potentially be a very good time trialist.

 

[The Sheep]

Well put. Nevertheless he DID surprise me. I hope he enjoys his days as a TT-master, however long they might last...

No one is claiming he is a TT-master?

 

[taiwan]

Personally i dont see him matching Contador, Menchov, in Gt tts, or even Nibali Samu, Cadel and kreuziger (or next year Vino). But hes still a whole lot better than the small climbers, Anton, Purito type, so if hes up against them, he can gain time.

Agree. Having looked at the results, I was basically going to say that.

Cancellara

Evans

Gesink

Frank Schleck

I should probably keep these pages of CQ up, becuase I'd like to know how Anton is in the TT, and how Andy will be this year.

 

[boomcie]

No one is claiming he is a TT-master?

Just exaggerating a little. I kinda hoped you would have understood that without me having to put it between quotation marks...

Also, this whole topic is an exaggeration of the subject.

 

[theyoungest]

Now, a long thin guy doesn't have to have a bad TT-position. Just look at guys like Indurain, Millar or Ullrich. But of course there is more to a good position on the bike than just your length. Maybe he can work on this, a couple of hours in a wind-tunnel in the winter isn't going to cut it. It could be possible that his body just doesn't fit on a TT-bike (with the current UCI-regulations), he will always remain an average TT-rider if that is the case, but if he can make some big aerodynamic improvements, he could potentially be a very good time trialist.

He gave an interview where he said that he always thought his entire upper body should be as low as possible, but windtunnel testing proved that as long as his head stays under his shoulders, it doesn't make much difference aerodynamically if he sits up a little more. Which is good for his power output, he never felt he could use it to its full extent. And I think his elbows won't stick out as much that way either

 

[taiwan]

...

When I think of tall climbers, I don't think of TT champs (e.g. Schleck, Schleck, Soler, Rasmussen). Samu and Menchov look like the good chronomen closest to his build.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

he has wlays been a time trial expert from his younger day, national chmapion juniors as well as 7th world championship juniors, but he has neglected that skill for many years now and especially last year. in potential he is an incredible timetrialist, like it or not and I really dislike the guy

 

[python]

i don't understand why would people dislike hesink ? a talented, hard-working lad that to my knowledge hasn't got his nose up in the sky. he occasionally says stupid things all young racers do.

his tt progress is entirely natural. it could be more due to specialized work on better a position than more watts..

i only wonder how he'd place in the algarve itt field ? something tells me with all the super heavy weights there, he'd be around contador placing at best.