Giro Stage 20 - De Gendt

Jul 10, 2010
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How can I believe that De Gendt is clean today? I don't think so. Nobody else is keeping up with him - they ALL look uncomfortable, EXCEPT De Gendt. Nope. I don't see it. It reminds me of a certain stage in the TdF - where a famous admitted doper doped, and got caught.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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If he blows up - I may change my mind - but either if he blows up, it won't matter as much, eh?
 

Dr_Lexus

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hiero2 said:
If he blows up - I may change my mind - but either if he blows up, it won't matter as much, eh?
Let's look at the facts here; you're in something called a clinic and you are talking to yourself.
 
Reactions: Scarponi
Im so so sorry!

I read an interview from him today and this is what he had to say about doping:

HUMO For riders who cant starve themselves theres "help". Aicar seems to be the next best thing, it slims you down without even having to get out the saddle.

De Gendt «I dont believe in that. Besides, its forbidden.

HUMO Aicar isnt tracable so really, it doesnt mather.

De Gendt « Yeah sure but the UCI freezes all your blood and urine samples and if in 2 years they decide to re-test it, youre screwed.

HUMO Riders have to give permission to store their samples right? You could just say you dont want them to.
De Gendt « Yes but in that sense you would already be admitting that youre not clean

HUMO And you are clean?

De Gendt «Ive won all my races 100% clean. I would rather be a domestique for another 15 years and make minimum wadge than cheat everybody for the next 3 years, win everything, and than get caught. Because then you would be a cheat forever. I wouldnt even dare to show my face at the local butcher shop anymore.
 
Apr 28, 2010
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De Gendt did the last 20km in 63'04" by my timing and I think that's about 1476m of climbing giving a VAM of 1404. Not much evidence of doping from that in isolation at least.
 
May 12, 2010
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hiero2 said:
How can I believe that De Gendt is clean today? I don't think so. Nobody else is keeping up with him - they ALL look uncomfortable, EXCEPT De Gendt. Nope. I don't see it. It reminds me of a certain stage in the TdF - where a famous admitted doper doped, and got caught.
Andy Schleck was caught last year?
 
May 12, 2010
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Lanark said:
Andy Schleck was caught last year?
Anyway, talking about Schleck. It just shows that long attacks are still possible and viable in today's peloton. De Gendt wasn't better than the other guys the last couple of days. No reason to think today was really different. It just shows that if you have balls, determination and the race tactics playing in your favor, you don't have to wait untill the last 2km of a climb to try something.
 
Dec 27, 2010
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eh, they gave him 4 minutes for free in the valley and then rode half-arsed behind him. Any comparison with the Landis stage is laughable.
 

Dr_Lexus

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Parrulo said:
either he is truly clean or the biggest hypocrite on the history of the sport. . .
Biggest hypocrite in the history of the sport? He's nowhere near the leaders in that category.
 
Aug 10, 2010
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will10 said:
eh, they gave him 4 minutes for free in the valley and then rode half-arsed behind him. Any comparison with the Landis stage is laughable.
Half-arsed? With the Giro on the line?
 
Oct 30, 2011
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You really also have to factor in that the favourites followed a very slow VDV for quite a long time. In the valley as well, no-one wanted to drive it on whatsoever. Hesjedal didn't feel that threatened, and those who were actually threatened by it (JRod, Scarponi, Basso) saw it as an opportunity to get Hesjedal to spend energy before Stelvio, so they could weaken him. It only started settling a bit once they had conceded so much time that some domestiques caught up with the favourites.
 
MarkvW said:
Half-arsed? With the Giro on the line?
Yes. If you watched it it was obvious. It was all down to tactics. The favourites wouldn't ride until some Garmin domestiques got there. Then, it was the front group vs Vande Velde (dropped from the break) and Stetina (not very strong).

Once Hesjedal took the lead, the gap went down, although De Gendt still held his own and climbed faster than most because he's good and he hadn't spent that much before.
 
Oct 30, 2011
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MarkvW said:
Half-arsed? With the Giro on the line?
Did you watch the stage? That's exactly why they rode half-arsed - nobody wanted to ride full-arsed on the flat before the Stelvio, the bloody Giro was on the line! They spent ages watching each other, while De Gendt had Carrera pulling for him and Izaguirre pulling for Nieve, and then Nieve and Cunego to work with for a bit. The group behind were playing games while he was just riding.
 
What we saw today was a group of cyclists grinding it out on a tough climb. This is completely different from the doped/EPO fuelled fireworks we regularly saw a few years ago. There is no one blowing the field apart in a way that looks super human.

I am not saying this means that doping has been eliminated but I don't think we are seeing the excesses of the past.

It gives me confidence we are seeing authentic performances. :)

T
 
Mar 25, 2011
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The logic of the topic starter is as follows: if he wins, he's a cheater, if he doesn't, well, then maybe he isn't. That's just pathetic. They obtained 4 minutes in the valley for free - a completely wasted Carrara was able to escape from the favourites in the descent of the Mortirolo, catch De Gendt and help him -, then it isn't very strange that the number 9 in the Giro is able to keep the pace high.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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180mmCrank said:
What we saw today was a group of cyclists grinding it out on a tough climb. This is completely different from the doped/EPO fuelled fireworks we regularly saw a few years ago. There is no one blowing the field apart in a way that looks super human.

I am not saying this means that doping has been eliminated but I don't think we are seeing the excesses of the past.

It gives me confidence we are seeing authentic performances. :)

T
All true - and I think we are seeing mostly authentic performances.

ilrumne said:
The logic of the topic starter is as follows: if he wins, he's a cheater, if he doesn't, well, then maybe he isn't. That's just pathetic. They obtained 4 minutes in the valley for free - . . ..
Not at all my logic - but it can be easy to misread logic in a forum mssg. De Gendt is no stranger to lone breakaways, which speaks in his favor. But he was just too strong when EVERYBODY else was clearly dieing. He had been through the same race - pretty much the same effort, and all of a sudden puts this effort in, and makes it look easy. If he blew up, then I could care less if he doped or not - it didn't change the results enough for me to get emotional over.

Ferminal said:
His Stelvio time ended up being slower than the others, didn't it? Nothing remarkable about his performance relative to the best climbers in the race, this stage was decided on tactics.
What IS remarkable, in my thinking, is his performance relative to everyone else. His performance compared to historical performances is not remarkable.

Caruut said:
You really also have to factor in that the favourites followed a very slow VDV for quite a long time. In the valley as well, no-one wanted to drive it on whatsoever. Hesjedal didn't feel that threatened, and those who were actually threatened by it (JRod, Scarponi, Basso) saw it as an opportunity to get Hesjedal to spend energy before Stelvio, so they could weaken him. It only started settling a bit once they had conceded so much time that some domestiques caught up with the favourites.
VDV wasn't that slow - he kept bringing the gap down - and doing a yoeman's job of it! I don't think it was tactics so much as nobody else had anything to answer with! Basso admitted as much - and Rodriquez, not Ryder, had the most to lose! If Rodriguez had more left, he would have launched it. With the time trial tomorrow, he knows he is still under threat! He admits to having no confidence of keeping Ryder at bay in the time trial.

Caruut said:
Did you watch the stage? That's exactly why they rode half-arsed - nobody wanted to ride full-arsed on the flat before the Stelvio, the bloody Giro was on the line! They spent ages watching each other, while De Gendt had Carrera pulling for him and Izaguirre pulling for Nieve, and then Nieve and Cunego to work with for a bit. The group behind were playing games while he was just riding.
Did I watch the stage? You betcha! In Italian and English both! All the way from the first climb. I still say the pink jersey group didn't softpedal it - there wasn't anything left to throw on the fire. De Gendt had a fantastic break group to help him off - all tried and true attackers - but that final launch just looked too good. Too good to be true.

I didn't quote the letter showing the interview - which I have to say is convincing. But it still just looked too good to be true. I have not convicted the guy in my mind, but I am extremely suspicious. It IS possible - but how many times did I think exactly the same thing in the late 90's, and the first decade of this century? So many.

Maybe it was because the top riders today in the Giro are from the runner-up squad. Great, strong riders - but just behind the heroic caliber. As much as I cheer Ryder on to win - how many times has he been "almost there"? And Basso, Popovivo, the rest? Rodriguez? This is the first time I have ever heard of him. We are in the gap between greats, excepting Cav and the sprinters. So, perhaps such a performance, without enhancement, was possible. But, on the other hand, in a clean peloton, a little refreshment on the red blood cells alone could have made that difference.
 
Oct 30, 2011
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hiero2 said:
VDV wasn't that slow - he kept bringing the gap down - and doing a yoeman's job of it! I don't think it was tactics so much as nobody else had anything to answer with! Basso admitted as much - and Rodriquez, not Ryder, had the most to lose! If Rodriguez had more left, he would have launched it. With the time trial tomorrow, he knows he is still under threat! He admits to having no confidence of keeping Ryder at bay in the time trial.
No he didn't. The gap was I think 4 minutes at the foot of the Stelvio and about 5'30" when VDV pulled over.

Hiero said:
Did I watch the stage? You betcha! In Italian and English both! All the way from the first climb. I still say the pink jersey group didn't softpedal it - there wasn't anything left to throw on the fire. De Gendt had a fantastic break group to help him off - all tried and true attackers - but that final launch just looked too good. Too good to be true.
That wasn't aimed at you.
 

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